I want to start trying suboxone to break free from my pill habit that's getting out of hand. Question is, if I go to a sub doctor can I explain my situation and get put on a sub program and still stay with my PM doctor for the time being? I don't want to cut that part out of the equation until I'm sure this is going to work for me. I'm worried if I start the sub and it doesn't work out then I'll be stuck with nothing if I can't go back to my PM doc for my normal scripts. Anyone have any experience with this?
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
Opioids Question on sub usage
- Thread starter Hybris
- Start date
NeighborhoodThreat
Bluelight Crew
It's a complicated situation. Maybe you should speak to your PM doctor first.
Getting two controlled substance (opioids no less) prescriptions from two different doctors is going to raise all sorts of red flags. I advise that you don't do this as it may land you in some legal trouble. We're not lawyers...
Getting two controlled substance (opioids no less) prescriptions from two different doctors is going to raise all sorts of red flags. I advise that you don't do this as it may land you in some legal trouble. We're not lawyers...
Yea that's kind of what I was thinking. I'm not trying to figure out a way to break the law, that's the last thing I want to do. I'm simply trying to find the best way to get through this situation.. my only concern with admitting to my pm doc that I've been abusing my meds is that he will cut me off completely, but hopefully if I'm honest he will work with me. I know he's a certified suboxone doctor too but I guess we'll see how it goes.
On a side note, really with the lawyer comment? I come here for help and advice and you automatically judge me assuming I'm trying to break the law and play the system. That's my one beef with these forums. I love all the information available and for the most part its extremely helpful but half the time it seems like people are looking for ways to close threads and bust people out about breaking the rules. I'm not seeking legal advice nor looking for ways to bypass any prescription laws, I'm simply trying to find a solution for a bad situation. Anyone who has been through trying to clean up their act knows the amount of stress that comes along with it. I want to try this program but I don't want to get stuck with no options if it doesn't work out and end up sick and in a worse situation than I already am.
On a side note, really with the lawyer comment? I come here for help and advice and you automatically judge me assuming I'm trying to break the law and play the system. That's my one beef with these forums. I love all the information available and for the most part its extremely helpful but half the time it seems like people are looking for ways to close threads and bust people out about breaking the rules. I'm not seeking legal advice nor looking for ways to bypass any prescription laws, I'm simply trying to find a solution for a bad situation. Anyone who has been through trying to clean up their act knows the amount of stress that comes along with it. I want to try this program but I don't want to get stuck with no options if it doesn't work out and end up sick and in a worse situation than I already am.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
In the interest of keeping a beneficial doctor/patient relationship, you should let your pain management doctor know that you would like to acquire buprenorphine. He might be able to help you, or at least will condone you going to another doctor for it if that is actually necessary.
Instead of telling your pain management doctor you've been abusing your medication, just tell them you want to have options when it comes to pain relief and opiate usage. I think it's totally understandable.
Best of luck with the situation you're in.
Instead of telling your pain management doctor you've been abusing your medication, just tell them you want to have options when it comes to pain relief and opiate usage. I think it's totally understandable.
Best of luck with the situation you're in.
Insurance might have a prob with you filling both.., not sure though. Certainly if your doctors found out it would be a big problem... I guess the question is, will they find out?
I would tell your PM doctor that yougve been on painkillers a while now, and want to see if at this point in your life the pain would not be bearable and that you would like to consider a possible switch to bupe to work toward getting off. This leaves you with the option to turn back if you change your mind.
If you simply want to stay getting both prescriptions...then you are simply looking for something to bridge the gap, and being dishonest is your only choice. I am not sure if it's against the law considering the drugs do different things, but you can rest assured you WILL be dropped from PM if your doc figures this out one way or another. If you don't actually sign a release at yoru bupe doctor stating that you are allowing them to contact your PM clinic, they are not allowed by law. Now when you get drug tested at the bupe doc, and continually come up with painkillers in your system, that will be a problem, same with the PM doc if you are coming up with bupe in your system.
I would tell your PM doctor that yougve been on painkillers a while now, and want to see if at this point in your life the pain would not be bearable and that you would like to consider a possible switch to bupe to work toward getting off. This leaves you with the option to turn back if you change your mind.
If you simply want to stay getting both prescriptions...then you are simply looking for something to bridge the gap, and being dishonest is your only choice. I am not sure if it's against the law considering the drugs do different things, but you can rest assured you WILL be dropped from PM if your doc figures this out one way or another. If you don't actually sign a release at yoru bupe doctor stating that you are allowing them to contact your PM clinic, they are not allowed by law. Now when you get drug tested at the bupe doc, and continually come up with painkillers in your system, that will be a problem, same with the PM doc if you are coming up with bupe in your system.
Thank you both, I do prefer the idea of being honest with my PM doc about the situation as that's the type of relationship we've always had thus far (aside from taking more than prescribed). My main concern with that option is getting prescribed too small a dosage of sub due to the fact my PM doc does not know the full extent of my using (supplementing when my scripts run out early). In the big picture this might accelerate or force me to taper more rapidly which could be a good thing however it could backfire. Thanks for the input, its definitely helpful to have some outside opinions on the situation.
BobJillespie
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2012
- Messages
- 96
I think your best course of action is to be honest with your doctor and explain your plan and voice your concerns and apprehension about being without your normal meds. If he's a good doctor he'll help you create a plan, refer you on, and address your concerns. If not, find a new doc. But don't lie and trick your way through it. Full disclosure to medical professionals (within reason) generally is the best course of action. They're there to help you, and most want to, not hinder you and judge.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
Rest assured there isn't a single bupe doctor that underprescribes lol. Also bupe is VERY powerful. What are your usage levels? I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you realize the amount of bupe you will need. It wont be up there like 24mg or someting lol.
mrflowers00
Ex-Bluelighter
it's very unlikely that you would get subs and a full opioid agonist at the same time
hamwaggle
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2012
- Messages
- 90
You definitely don't have to tell the PM doc that you are abusing your meds. Just say something like I read a lot about how addictive these drugs are and I heard that suboxone can be safer and can still provide pain relief. If he can prescribe subs, he would be HAPPY to put you on bupe instead of whatever oxy or shit he's giving you now. Especially with the DEA all down PM docs backs.
If he is honest wtih his PM doc hed have to tell him hes abusing his meds and wants to stay on them but also get bupe at the same time. Do you really think that could end well? His pain meds are guaranteed to go out the window then. He doesnt wanna drop his pain meds and go straight to bupe, other wise it wouldnt be a prob.
Also after being on full agonist pain meds suboxone will not provide even remotely the same amount of releif. It's a partial agonist...
It seems that either way towards ending the cycle of addiction is going to lead to a lesser amount of pain relief. As stated above a step straight to suboxone will not be comparable, and even if it's possible to find a way to try both at once, even a small dose of the suboxone is going to inhibit the other opiates action to an extent.
That being said, I think your best option, if you are really ready in your mind, is just to tell your PM doctor that the concept of how addicting opiates over a long span of usage can be scares you, and that you'd like to try suboxone. As others have said, I'm sure he's going to have no problem with that.
Best of luck to you.
That being said, I think your best option, if you are really ready in your mind, is just to tell your PM doctor that the concept of how addicting opiates over a long span of usage can be scares you, and that you'd like to try suboxone. As others have said, I'm sure he's going to have no problem with that.
Best of luck to you.
Is pain a big concern for you? I know a lot of people on pain killers have been on them so long that they haven't established their pain level off of the pain killers. Usually they start wtihdrawals which cause even pain free people to have back pains etc.., and they think their pain is coming back strong as fuck. But you really need to wait till after you detox to determine that.
many might not agree with me, but unless you really are ready to quit, which it doesn't sound like, I would see a different doctor, not sign any releases or mention affiliation with another doc.
Your insurance might have issue with you filling these contradicting scripts. Might wanna pay cash for bupe and make sure you get prescribed generic bupe (generic subutuex) other wise you'll be payin an arm an da leg.
If you even managed it there would be zero benefit from taking bupe and a full agonist at the same time. First of all it's really playing with fire, 2nd of all the two simply don't complement one another in any way. Aside from how you will feel mentally and physically, you will end up wasting one or the other because if the full agonist takes affect (if your on a low enough sub dose) thats all you feel. It's not as if you has 20mg methadone in you and added more opiates. You had a partial agonist and now added a full with a dopamine release, something bupe alone lacked.
But if you have ever experienced moderate to severe withdrawals you cringe at the thought of a full blown almost instant fall into the peak of those withdrawals. If you are heavily physically dependent bupe is nothing to play around with. Anyone who has experienced precipitated withdrawals knows how debilitating they are (and I don't mean a minor case, I mean instant dry heaving, shitting. cold sweats, rls. You would do just about anything to get off sick. If you were even physically able. It's tough to go cop when your lying in sweat piss shit throwup naked on a tile floor lol. Thats when you end up making the worst decisions.
But all that aside thats clearly not his intention. I can't speak for him, but personally I think he wants to stay using full agonists and have suboxone for when he runs out of meds early. He stated he clearly has a problem with his pain meds, and wants them to fall back on etc.. Honestly if I was in his position, I would be in the same situation as him. Even though I do want to quit I am just not fully ready, and it wasn't easy to get on this pain clinic, but how do I cope with running out early? Bupe. I'll tell my self I plan to detox etc.. make all these plans to quit, but it simply becomes a tool to bridge the gap.
Honestly I often wonder where I would be right now if I didn't get on bupe. I wonder if I would have quit dope from constantly being in withdrawals after binges, or maybe I would be in a worse spot. Honestly if I used as often as I do now, but took nothing the days I didnt use (about 4 days a week im on bupe, 2 or 3 on dope), my tolerance would be drastically different. For me it's been so long and bupe is like this cushion to fall back on. You can decide to use for just one more weekend or whatever because you won't have to face greuling withdrawals.
Some would say you should just try and make your meds last all month. If it were me, it would be impossible. Once I am at a certain level every road I travel ends up bringing me there. I can start chipping once a month and soon im back using just as bad. I take every approach like a psychopath thinking that somehow I will get different results from essentially doing the same shit lol.
One good thing about bupe especially in contrast to methadone, is tapering is seriously cake. You have absolutely no compulsion to taek extra. Ask a meth clinic patient how mayn times theyve doubled up on their weekend dose of meth, then ask a bupe patient how mayn times they doubled up their bupe dose. Unless your in bupe honeymoon phase, there is literally nothing to be had from a larger dose. Mdone dont get you way high but its still a full agonist. When you taper depending how gentle you are, you do have the impulse to take more, or wait a bit longer etc.. Tapering with any full agonist is hard.
Bupe is something you can actually taper on your own without needing it dispensed. If you go slow and proper and down to like 0.25mg evey other day, you can walk off bupe and not even miss a days work. Walking off 2mg+ is a WHOLE idfferent story. For me every time Ive gotten to like .5mg daily, I end up making a really stupid decision to use, and only god knows when i'll make it back on track IF I will.
Once you get that low on bupe if you stabalize over a few months, you actually get a really big pick me up from dosing.
many might not agree with me, but unless you really are ready to quit, which it doesn't sound like, I would see a different doctor, not sign any releases or mention affiliation with another doc.
Your insurance might have issue with you filling these contradicting scripts. Might wanna pay cash for bupe and make sure you get prescribed generic bupe (generic subutuex) other wise you'll be payin an arm an da leg.
If you even managed it there would be zero benefit from taking bupe and a full agonist at the same time. First of all it's really playing with fire, 2nd of all the two simply don't complement one another in any way. Aside from how you will feel mentally and physically, you will end up wasting one or the other because if the full agonist takes affect (if your on a low enough sub dose) thats all you feel. It's not as if you has 20mg methadone in you and added more opiates. You had a partial agonist and now added a full with a dopamine release, something bupe alone lacked.
But if you have ever experienced moderate to severe withdrawals you cringe at the thought of a full blown almost instant fall into the peak of those withdrawals. If you are heavily physically dependent bupe is nothing to play around with. Anyone who has experienced precipitated withdrawals knows how debilitating they are (and I don't mean a minor case, I mean instant dry heaving, shitting. cold sweats, rls. You would do just about anything to get off sick. If you were even physically able. It's tough to go cop when your lying in sweat piss shit throwup naked on a tile floor lol. Thats when you end up making the worst decisions.
But all that aside thats clearly not his intention. I can't speak for him, but personally I think he wants to stay using full agonists and have suboxone for when he runs out of meds early. He stated he clearly has a problem with his pain meds, and wants them to fall back on etc.. Honestly if I was in his position, I would be in the same situation as him. Even though I do want to quit I am just not fully ready, and it wasn't easy to get on this pain clinic, but how do I cope with running out early? Bupe. I'll tell my self I plan to detox etc.. make all these plans to quit, but it simply becomes a tool to bridge the gap.
Honestly I often wonder where I would be right now if I didn't get on bupe. I wonder if I would have quit dope from constantly being in withdrawals after binges, or maybe I would be in a worse spot. Honestly if I used as often as I do now, but took nothing the days I didnt use (about 4 days a week im on bupe, 2 or 3 on dope), my tolerance would be drastically different. For me it's been so long and bupe is like this cushion to fall back on. You can decide to use for just one more weekend or whatever because you won't have to face greuling withdrawals.
Some would say you should just try and make your meds last all month. If it were me, it would be impossible. Once I am at a certain level every road I travel ends up bringing me there. I can start chipping once a month and soon im back using just as bad. I take every approach like a psychopath thinking that somehow I will get different results from essentially doing the same shit lol.
One good thing about bupe especially in contrast to methadone, is tapering is seriously cake. You have absolutely no compulsion to taek extra. Ask a meth clinic patient how mayn times theyve doubled up on their weekend dose of meth, then ask a bupe patient how mayn times they doubled up their bupe dose. Unless your in bupe honeymoon phase, there is literally nothing to be had from a larger dose. Mdone dont get you way high but its still a full agonist. When you taper depending how gentle you are, you do have the impulse to take more, or wait a bit longer etc.. Tapering with any full agonist is hard.
Bupe is something you can actually taper on your own without needing it dispensed. If you go slow and proper and down to like 0.25mg evey other day, you can walk off bupe and not even miss a days work. Walking off 2mg+ is a WHOLE idfferent story. For me every time Ive gotten to like .5mg daily, I end up making a really stupid decision to use, and only god knows when i'll make it back on track IF I will.
Once you get that low on bupe if you stabalize over a few months, you actually get a really big pick me up from dosing.
I'm not concerned with my pain at this point if I switch to bupe. I'm blowing way to much money supplementing when I run out and also the effects on my personal life are starting to really take a toll. I don't necessarily won't to take both at the same time, for one like others said it would be pointless because of the cancelling effects and two I really want to try to stop. My biggest concern with using my PM doc (which most definitely does prescribe and encourage bupe) is that once I make the switch I will never be able to go back. Through my experience though I feel that if I told him its just not working he would be ok with switching me back, it'd just be a month or so I'd be in that gray area which I think I could deal with. My second concern is that I would be inclined to try and abuse the bupe but from what you guys are saying that's not really going to be an option or problem. Lastly, the dosage really worries me, like I said I take about double or triple what I'm prescribed normally so without admitting this to my PM doc, I'm not sure the bupe dosage will be enough for me. It was reassuring to hear that they normally OVER prescribe but I just want to be sure before I make the move. If I switch to bupe, the reason is obviously to be able to function while trying to go clean but if I don't have enough to successfully fill the void and taper I'll be stuck in virtually the same situation and have to end up supplementing with something else. Long story short, I'm ready for the switch, not worried about the pain aspect but I want to make sure I'm going to have the amount of bupe necessary to compensate and taper for the actual amount (not prescribed like my Dr. Would assume) that I am abusing. Thank you all again for the input, it is extremely helpful!
Unless I missed it you never mentioned what your daily doses / dependency level actually is? Let us know your usage patterns and we'll give our opinoin on how well bupe will be able to hold you.
Prescribed 60mg hydrocodone per day (norco 10 x 6 daily) and take usually 200-300mg hydro daily, mixed with oxycodone (percocet, roxis) throughout the month depending on what's available. I know this is no crazy habit and a lot of people have it worse, but it is what it is.
Edit: I also get tramadol which I will supplement throughout the month when needed but that isn't any part of the problem. I'm also prescribed 60 1mg Xanax per month but I take it as prescribed (usually .5-1mg daily).
Edit: I also get tramadol which I will supplement throughout the month when needed but that isn't any part of the problem. I'm also prescribed 60 1mg Xanax per month but I take it as prescribed (usually .5-1mg daily).