Question for the Chemists

[GenericMind]

So I've been meaning to try my hand at some basic extractions for the purpose of learning some basic chemistry and familiarizing myself with the processes.

I don't consider myself particularly talented when it comes to chemistry or chemistry-related things, so I'm looking for opinions on which extraction would be the simplest to start with. I don't plan on doing anything with the products so I don't need opinions on which would be most "worth my time" or anything like that. I'm looking strictly for a "difficulty progression ladder". Here are my options:

-DXM extraction from cough syrup

-Mescaline extraction from San Pedro

-LSA extraction from Morning Glory or Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds

I'm also open for suggestions of any other relatively easy extractions.

 

[johanneschimpo]

DXM is probably the easiest

But its not worth your time

 

[phase_dancer]

I'd say start with extracting caffeine from coffee as it can require a bit of technique with a separatory funnel to avoid producing an emulsion.
Advancing from this, I'd suggest obtaining a pure amine (something legal) and practice A/B extraction, crystallizing/ recrystallizing etc. Then, if you approach the two more interesting compounds on your list, you'll probably find you can solve or at least ask the right questions help you solve any problems you might encounter.

 

[GenericMind]

Thanks for advice. I'll see if I can find some info on caffeine extraction tonight.

The only reason I chose to work with the three I listed is because there is a ton of step-by-step information on how to perform them on the net. I can't seem to find any sites with information on how to perform basic extractions of legal things at home, anywhere. Until I develop a better understanding of the processes and how/why they work, I'm going to need those types of detailed instructions.

 

[flyingbanana]

"The Organic Chem Lab Survival Manual" - Zubrick

 

[GenericMind]

"The Organic Chem Lab Survival Manual" - Zubrick

Thanks, I'm going to pick this up. Would you strongly suggest the newest, 6th, edition over the 5th? The latter is almost $50 cheaper, so unless there's a really good reason to buy the newer one I'm going to go with the older edition.

 

[smackem]

Some say morphine is easy to precipitate outta poppy straw.

 

[TheDEA.org]

start with extracting caffeine from coffee

Good call; the old caffeine extraction will be a great introduction to lab technique, particularly for extractions. If you need some beakers and such, try: http://www.sciplus.com/ They sell all sorts of hobby/grade school level science junk, including very simple glassware (not the sort of stuff you'd need to do organic synthesis, but quite enough to do the caffeine extraction.) Granted, you're still short the beloved $6,000 rotovap, but that's life.

Would you strongly suggest the newest, 6th, edition over the 5th?

Having not seen either of them, I would suggest the older, much cheaper version. Buying last year's edition of a text book is a GREAT way to get high-quality reference books for your home library; they're often going for a song and rarely much different from the new ones. (Rapidly emerging technologies being the main exception; obviously a genetic engineering book from five years ago isn't as good as a brand new one.) Whatever was added in the new version, you can be sure the older one will have the sorts of procedures you're interested in.

 

[BilZ0r]

Acid base extractions, fun, easy and often colourful; and there are some pimpin guides, like this one

 

[phase_dancer]

Would you strongly suggest the newest, 6th, edition over the 5th?

As an alternative, the 2nd edition is available as an e-book on rapidshare (~4mb)
For the work you're looking at doing I'd say this earlier edition would be adequate

 

[GenericMind]

God damn, you guys are great. Thanks for the tips and links.

I'm sure I'll be back with 8768976985.2 questions when I start putting these things into practice.

Until then...

 

[J. Alfred Prufrock]

I would also suggest this book. I like it's organization with the Isolations and Purifications series of experiments.

Caffeine is one isolation discussed in that book. I also suggest you read discussions of better quality such as this one rather than "teks" on websites on how to extract DMT, mescaline, LSA, etc. Note the effort made to characterize the caffeine in the preceeding description, and how the composition of the non-caffeine material is also important in describing the isolation process. You're not just extracting the freebase caffeine with a non-polar solvent, you're also ionizing the phenolic compounds at high pH and therefore reducing their extraction with the caffeine.

 

[GenericMind]

I would also suggest this book. I like it's organization with the Isolations and Purifications series of experiments.

Caffeine is one isolation discussed in that book. I also suggest you read discussions of better quality such as this one rather than "teks" on websites on how to extract DMT, mescaline, LSA, etc. Note the effort made to characterize the caffeine in the preceeding description, and how the composition of the non-caffeine material is also important in describing the isolation process. You're not just extracting the freebase caffeine with a non-polar solvent, you're also ionizing the phenolic compounds at high pH and therefore reducing their extraction with the caffeine.

That book looks awesome. A list of experiments to try like that is exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately it'll have to wait until I can afford it.

 

[phase_dancer]

Vogel's Practical Organic Chemistry is considered the Bible of org chem.


Kings CHEMISTRY SURVIVAL GUIDE contains some great stuff on lab technique and extractions. A procedure is outlined for extrracting caffeine from tea (page 23)

The Merck index is an invaluable tool for looking up solubilities and other physical data, although the CD version available as a torrent is not as comprehensive as the hardcover

The Alkaloids is an older text, but full of interesting stuff. Worth the long read

Free Deja Vu viewer available at Lizard Tech

I puchased this book titled Hallucinogenic Plants when I was sixteen. Mostly stuff you'll know, but there may be the odd surprise, and it's good as a simple reference.
Password for Hallucinogenic Plants = evansshultes

Lange's Handbook of Chemistry is another very good data text.


The CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics is another chem "bible", often containing info not in the Merck Index

Safety is what harm reduction is supposed to be all about; Hazardous_Chemicals_Handbook
The Encyclopedia of Separation Science is an excellent book.
Common Fragrance and Flavor Materials contains some good stuff on the commercial separation of essential oils and other plant compounds

Finally, this was the book, that as a child, got me interested in Chemistry. Because of it, I spent every public holiday searching for chemicals and old glassware. At age 13, I had a better lab setup than the best highschool lab. All inspired by this book and I did almost every experiment in it. Rumor has it that it was removed from the shelves due to a request from the FBI. Too much knowledge for youngsters The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments

Happy Reading..

[Edit: fixed links]

 

[GenericMind]

Thanks.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

There is a rather nifty sublimation method to isolate caffeine from ground beans.

Basify with a few drops of NH3, then add a stiff paste of magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) and heat in a test tube, directing the sublimed caffeine base onto a cold glass or coldfinger to condense it.

 

[hussness]

Anyone happen to have link(s) to e-books of The Organic Chemistry of Drug Synthesis?

I was also wondering about Solomons and Fryhle 8th ed.