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Question for piracetam users

How is acetylcarnitine choline related? ALCAR is involved in shuttling fats into and out of mitochondria... It has nothing to do with choline.
vinpocetine is a vasodilator, not a cholinomimetic...
 
Smartshop maybe you take high dose of ALCAR and Vinpocetine and it stimulates you too much, like too much of coffee...
 
That site has references for everything else, but not the claim that ALCAR increases acetylcholine levels.

It's entirely possible that it does, but that's not it's primary method of action. It's promotes energy production

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10608918
Altern Med Rev. 1999 Dec;4(6):438-41. Related Articles,Links

Acetyl-L-carnitine.

[No authors listed]

Acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) is an ester of the trimethylated amino acid, L-carnitine, and is synthesized in the human brain, liver, and kidney by the enzyme ALC-transferase. Acetyl-L-carnitine facilitates the uptake of acetyl CoA into the mitochondria during fatty acid oxidation, enhances acetylcholine production, and stimulates protein and membrane phospholipid synthesis. ALC, similar in structure to acetylcholine, also exerts a cholinomimetic effect. Studies have shown that ALC may be of benefit in treating Alzheimer's dementia, depression in the elderly, HIV infection, diabetic neuropathies, ischemia and reperfusion of the brain, and cognitive impairment of alcoholism.
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Altern Med Rev. 1999 Dec;4(6):438-41. Related Articles,Links

Acetyl-L-carnitine.

[No authors listed]

Acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) is an ester of the trimethylated amino acid, L-carnitine, and is synthesized in the human brain, liver, and kidney by the enzyme ALC-transferase. Acetyl-L-carnitine facilitates the uptake of acetyl CoA into the mitochondria during fatty acid oxidation, enhances acetylcholine production, and stimulates protein and membrane phospholipid synthesis. ALC, similar in structure to acetylcholine, also exerts a cholinomimetic effect. Studies have shown that ALC may be of benefit in treating Alzheimer's dementia, depression in the elderly, HIV infection, diabetic neuropathies, ischemia and reperfusion of the brain, and cognitive impairment of alcoholism.
Click to expand...


I only posted the first link that I could find when I did a search, I would look for others but I don't have the time, and really don't know if alcar does increase acetylcholine levels or not. I had just wanted to post it because I've read on other forums in the past, people complaining about supposed choline buildup caused by taking alcar in combo with other supps such as alpha gpc, and I figured someone reading this thread might wanna keep that in mind when taking supplements.

However isn't what you just posted stating that alcar does increase acetylcholine production?
 
I've been taking piracetam for two weeks and I don't think it's doing anything, so I got some choline, but I can only buy a choline/inositol combination here. Are there any contraindications with this and piracetam? What should be my dose ratio? Presently taking 2400mg piracetam a day.
 
Depends what kind of choline...i belive unless you don't feel headache you're geting enough of it. Of course little extra than just minimum might me better
 
There's no problem with inositol.

da_sense -- piracetam and choline are highly synergistic.... taking choline substantially increases the effects
 
I've found that piracetam sometimes works better with a choline bitartrate tablet but only at lower doses (of both). Sometimes when I take the choline with the piracetam it actually fogs my mind moreso than if I had just taken 4-6 "00 size" caps alone without the choline. I also find that choline can sometimes give me a headache, especially if I take two tabs. I don't like drinking with the piracetam because it seems to increase the toxic effects by which I mean if I'm slightly sick and I drink, taking the piracetam makes me sicker. Entirely subjective I know but taking e with it seems to increase the sickly, shaky, weak stomach feeling that e can leave you with. It does not bring back the roll like you think but I guess it can give you a "cleaner" experience, which really doesn't mean anything but it does change the effect somewhat. So there's a paragraph of worthless information that I could've summed up by saying: take piracetam alone and in large doses before work and only supplement choline when the piracetam alone isn't working anymore.
Yeah I took piracetam today.
 
Hmm...seems that piracetam is not so wonder drug anymore. I see more and more reports that piracetam fogs brain and such things. This could be due to bad dosing, or mixing with some other stuff. I've been taking piracetam for more than a month, 3x1gr per day. It definetly is a good thing, but sometimes I do feel some pressure in my head, or maybe brain fog that i never had before...but it's not long lasting, and overally I like piracetam. I've ordered some aniracetam so we'll see :)
 
I've been taking piracetam for nearly 3 weeks now and although it did make me foggy headed at first, I really like it now. It seems to give me an overall mood lift and help me to think clearer and be more logical. I've rolled once with it and it definitely made the experience a lot clearer and always left me feeling in control. When I'm working out I seem to have more endurance etc etc. It's not a miracle drug, but I definitely see enough of a benefit to continue taking it.
 
Since I introduced 500mg choline/500mg inositol to my 2400mg piracetam dose, I feel the effects are somewhat more pronounced but still nothing great. I have the feeling that as I'm not using drugs recreationally, there's little extra benefit for me to gain.

One side effect I've noticed though (and this could be unrelated) is that I'm very antsy - anxious, itchy, that sort of thing. Has anyone else experienced this side effect? If not, it's probably just unrelated anxiety.
 
aunty establishment said:
One side effect I've noticed though (and this could be unrelated) is that I'm very antsy - anxious, itchy, that sort of thing. Has anyone else experienced this side effect? If not, it's probably just unrelated anxiety.
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I've noticed that on higher doses (2400mg plus), it feels vaguely like a low level meth experience. I feel stimulated, clear headed and there's even faintly perceptible rushing. I realise this is likely to be placebo but it is interesting (and not something I necessarily object to!)
 
I take 2-3gr of ALCAR per day too, and I do feel very stimulated almost anxious, but i'm not sure is it due to piracetam or alcar...
 
Hmm, I'm about to start taking ALCAR and ALA too. This means I have a mighty regimen of pills to take each day. Are there any known contraindications of taking:
2400mg piracetam
500mg choline/500 mg inositol (combo caps)
200mg 5-htp
200mg ALA
1000mg ALCAR (will probably increase this)
...and a comprehensive multi-vitamin? My concern is that I'm taking too many anti-oxidants :(

Also, I'm unsure that my body can absorb all these gelcaps at once: it's 15 capsules in total. I break it into two doses: everything but the multi-vit first thing in the AM, then the multi with breakfast about an hour later. Does that sound OK? Man, I'm such a noob at this :)
 
What you've suggested sounds good :) There aren't any interaction problems.

The ALCAR + choline are probably absorbed somewhat better away from food, whereas the ALA needs to be had with fatty foods for best absorption. In reality the difference isn't THAT large (i think)
 
I'm on 1600 per day of piracetam and im still not sure if it is helping or not. I do notice that it's harder to sit still and do nothing and i start getting things done so im happy for that reason.

Is choline present in any foods?
 
aunty establishment your stack if fine. It's even considered pretty low dose so you shouldn't worry. I take much more stuff than that ;)
Try to split that like
3 x 800 mg of piracetam per day with food (choline with that)
2 or 3 x 700-100mg of ALCAR one hour before food (take it with ALA)
As VelocideX said ALA is better absorbed with lipids, so I personally take CLA or fish oil cap with it.

ozbreaker piracetam is a long term drug, you usually need to take it longer to feel it. Choline is present in many foods like eggs and sardines, look for it on google.
 
VelocideX said:
Why wouldn't it be? No LD50 for piracetam has ever been found. AFAIK, no toxic effects have ever been found...
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I disagree.
I've been taking 1600 mg a day for the last fe wmonths everyday.
In my first few weeks, initially I did the whole attack thing at about 3-4 g a day for about 10 days then went back 1600g.
Everynow and then I'll have an attack dose.

However, I've tried the drinking thing.
Oddly enough, I found you can drink more before feeling drunk on piracetam before feeling drunk. It's hard to explain, yes you;re drunk but still very clear headed. An odd but good feeling.

My gripe mainly lies in that piracetam increases blood flow to and between the left and right brain. Therefore, increasing the amount of alcohol directly to the brain.
Proven or not, I don't use piracetam the day before a big drinking session even if it does allow me to drink more. Hell, i can drink enough as it is.

Alcohol kills enough brain cells as it is, without increasing its presence in the brain via piracetam.

just my humble opinion:)
 
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