Opioids Question about Tolerance and one about expiration date.

[Benzopiates]

So here's my problem, at the moment I have some liquid dilaudid...
my dealer claims it's the exact same dilaudid liquid preperation they give to patients at the hospital so there is no need for filtering, it's pure and safe for your organs during long term use.

So may this be true or not, I want to know ONE thing, I have mixed the liquid with sterile water to decrease the concentration but ATM I'm worried about the effect that this might have on the dilaudid.
-Will the dilaudid's efficiency or potency drop because it's mixed with sterile water?
-Will the sterile water create any interference in the drug after a certain amount of time (I heard that unless you have bacteriostatic water, there's a certain amount of time maximum that a liquid can be kept before it starts growing bacterias on it's own)

The dilaudid solution being infected is a bit my concern, can any of you give me any information on this. And I could always aquire some bacteriostatic water tomorrow. If it's a good idea, how should I go with it, should I mix a certain quantity with my solution and it would be safe, please help me and tell me what you think of the situation, Any help is appreciated, thanks alot.

My second question is just about tolerance and how it go up and down, when you've had a pretty big tolerance to dilaudid and you managed to go really low in the doxing, almost detoxing yourself completely... for maybe 3-4 days I had below 2mg dilauduid and I was compensating (but with onlly a very small amount) with methadone and now my dealer has this new thing... Liquid dilaudid it's supposed to be this concentrations that they give to the patients in the ER. and I took the doses that he said to be (2mg) but it felt alot stronger... Is it because my tolerance dropped already?

I hadn't had methadone in 20 hours alos, I know the blocking effect seemed to "fade" away a bit but I still remember what 2mg used to feel like even before I took methadone.
So how does the tolerance of one person moves, does it move slower after it's been initiated or does it just follow a regular rythme or is it more complicated? I'd like to know a bit more about how one's tolerance rises and drops with time, lets say I would take 20mg today, would it come back up all the way or just a bit since I did all this in one day etc? So maybe you can help me by pointing me out how it would work.

Again, thanks alot for any constructive critisism, comments or answers, everyone is very much appreciated and I can't thank you guys enough for the harm reduction you create. Thank you so much. (but please answer )

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Maybe the Dilaudid is more concentrated than you think, in the hospital they sometimes use Dilaudid that contains 10mg per ml of liquid. However it is available in a lot of different strengths. How much is supposed to be in your's? How much did you use? Also it could affect you more because it is meant for injection, whereas if you're injecting pills you may not always get 100% of the hydromorphone out of the pills.

I'm not sure what to do about storing it, how long are you planning to store it? Is it in a sterile container? Diluting it is not going to harm it, just make sure to carefully measure how much liquid you had to start with and how much you are adding so that you can know how much hydromorphone is in a given amount. For example, if it was 10mg per ml and you started with 10ml, then added 10ml of water it would then be 5mg per ml.

As for tolerance, there are a lot of things that can affect it and once someone has done opioids for a period of time then if they quit or cut back for a while it will go down but it will go back up much faster than tolerance rises in a person new to opioids. But everyone is different when it comes to the specifics.

 

[Druidus]

If you regularly use pills, you will find that 2mg worth of solution will be much stronger than 2mg of crushed pill extracted with a simple filter and syringe. It's ACTUALLY 2mg!

I'm not sure what to do about storing it, how long are you planning to store it? Is it in a sterile container? Diluting it is not going to harm it, just make sure to carefully measure how much liquid you had to start with and how much you are adding so that you can know how much hydromorphone is in a given amount. For example, if it was 10mg per ml and you started with 10ml, then added 10ml of water it would then be 5mg per ml.

As for tolerance, there are a lot of things that can affect it and once someone has done opioids for a period of time then if they quit or cut back for a while it will go down but it will go back up much faster than tolerance rises in a person new to opioids. But everyone is different when it comes to the specifics.

Good points.

 

[Benzopiates]

Thanks for the answer guys.

My concentration like I said before is : For about 1/3ml = 25mg of dilaudid so it would be ~75mg/ml (Is that even possible?)

But I'm SURE I've seen somewhere that any solution that is prepared for long term use of dilaudid or any other substance in fact will have waterborne or airborne bacterias or viruses in the substance after a certain amount of time and that is the VERY REASON that people use bacteriostatic water (Sterile water with a small amount of benzo alcohol in it to prevent the creation of bacterias/viruses inside the substance and hence make it continuesly safe for injection)

So how long do you think my solution of mixed sterile water + dilaudid would be safe to inject before it starts having risks of it being infected by any kind of bacterias that could have been created from this lack of bacteriostatic water?

I've mixed 0.75ml of the initial solution with approximately 15~20ml of sterile water (I DID lost count of what the exact concentration was but I'm not going to push in the amount I'm using anyway as I'm trying to aim for what seems to feel like 1 to 2mg at most per shot) So what is the best thing for me to do?

Also, if I go and buy bacteriostatic water, is there a place where I could just buy 1 or 2ml and mix it with my solution or do I absolutely have to get it from places that sell it in big quantities ? The best I got last time was a 10ml vial with a needle safe rubber cap and it costed 15$... I wish to try and save money so is there other places that could sell me less for a smaller price?

BTW for information I'm tryhingt to preserve this solution for about 2 weeks which is the time I estimate it to last until I finish consuming it.

 

[tricomb]

Man I wish you hadn't tampered with it yet, it would have made things so much easier for you. It's making my head hurt trying to calculate the risks of this and the risks are just to big right now for me to give you a solid answer, I can't tell you how strong it is when you've added an unknown amount of sterile water.

My suggestion would be you slowly evaporate your solution back into powder form and then start over making a known solution concentration.

edit: So you know, the maximum solubility of hydromorphone in H20 is a whopping 333mg/mL, if that helps.

 

[Benzopiates]

Why is it SO HARD for people to just answer one simple question, why is it that you guys try to help me discover how much the concentration of the solution is when I simply just don't give a bowl about it, seriously?

My ONLY conscern is about BACTERIAS and VIRUSES being formed inside the solution because I mixed dilaudid with sterile water, what is the use of bacteriostatic water if not to preserve saftely a drug solution ?

In another thread I was talking about preparing liquid solutions in sterile syringes in advance so I wouldn't have to prep it everytime.
EX: I had 25x 4mg pills and I wanted to prepare 25 syringes of 1ml containing the 4mg crushed and filtered dilaudid in them and that it would be ready to inject when I need it and not have to do the whole preperation everytime and to that thread came the conclusion that it was UNSAFE to keep a solution in the liquid form if I wasn't going to use it right away UNLESS I was using bacteriostatic water... at least that's what I remember so that is why I ask this here.

Now my point on THIS Thread is that I took a certain amount of liquid dilaudid (already prepared for the ER injection) and I mixed it with sterile water to lower by alot it's concentration since I wanted to use doses that were approximately 1 to 2mg ( I can easily know what FEELS like 1 or 2 mg so I don't need to know at 100% the exact amount I'm using, the only thing I need this dilaudid for ATM is tapering down from an addiction that caused me to go on methadone and now my methadone dose was low enough so that I though for the last part of the tapering I could go back to injecting dilaudid and lowering it to 0 from there.

Is that bad? I Only want to know if this solution is safe or if it will grow bacterias over time. read carefully please... I appreciate your help but it's worthless if you're not answering the correct thing, it seems to me like many ppl just read half or read really fast and say something like if it was important to them to answer every thread.

Please be concise..

Is dilaudid liquid (directly from the hospital, the vials they use for injection) mixed with sterile water and taken out of its airseal container SAFE to keep for 2 weeks or will bacterias grow in that solution since I didnt use bacteriostatic water.

I'm currently trying to detox myself from a 25~40mg per day Dilaudid IV habbit... I've done pretty good on first part lowering the addiction to about 6~10mg per day and then I switched to methadone for about a week... I used 35mg methadone on the first day and like 5~10mg methadone on the last day and on that last day I was good for 24h without any significant Opiate withdrawal... and from THERE I though I could switch back to dilaudid to taper the rest down, using doses of around 1 to 2mg max but the only problem is that I got it in liquid form and I don't know if it's good idea to constantly plunge my needle in the same vial (that is not air sealed, simply closed by a cap, air can go through) for 2 weeks (the time I finish it)

 

[Sorce]

is it a good idea? no. are you going to do it no matter what anyone says on here? yes.

 

[Benzopiates]

Can you point me towards WHAT THE FUCK you are talking about???

Did you even read the fucking post?

Do I have to type it in bold for you to see it?

I'm not asking if something is a good idea or not, or if I'm gonna do it(what is IT?) or not no matter what you even mean by this.

Is dilaudid liquid (directly from the hospital) mixed with sterile water and taken out of its airseal container SAFE to keep for 2 weeks or will bacterias grow in that solution since I didnt use bacteriostatic water. And should I try to finish it as soon as possible or I should go buy BS Water and mix it with the solution or I should add a certain minuscule quantity of alcohol myself to the mix (Would that be an idea?) I just want this solution to not have anything bad for my health in it after it's sat there for 2 days or more.

 

[tricomb]

Chill out.

If you had used bacteriostatic water or saline this wouldn't be so complicated, but to answer your question, no it is not safe to improperly store liquid hydromorphone for two weeks without a pretty significant possibility of bacterial growth. No, do not add alcohol to the solution, if it's already been stored for more than 2 days then it's too late to add the right amount of preservative, usually Benzyl Alcohol.

 

[Benzopiates]

the liquid has been out of the seal for 2 days as of now...

What is the best thing I can do from now on?

Is the risks HIGH enough so that I should simply stop using it (Or rather... instead of tapering with this and using it for a whole 2 weeks, and taking lower doses everytime, i'd just use all of it at once... there should be aound 25-35mg dilaudid remaining... Do you think that I'll still be able to finish my detox after using such a high dose or it will be ok since it's only a ONE TIME thing? Or will I have to live the hell of detoxing back from again a huge amount and it will take weeks and weeks to get to where I am right now?

And to be quite frank I really don't understand why using a certain quantity of benzyl alcohol (I would use bacteriostatic water to not fuck up the maths) at this point is too late, if there is bacterias it will kill them and if there isn't it will prevent them from being created, or does it not kill bacterias but only prevent them? If so... is the amount of bacterias in the liquid already at this time too much if I just make the liquid stop growing more? (And what will happen to me, what are the risks for my health if I do use such a substance, let's say I didn't know about this and I went through with my plan because I didn't know this information that.. to be honest, not many people in this thread seemed to know either)

Maybe I just have to take the liquid out, heat it up a bit and suck it back up in the syringe, doesn't that kill bacterias usually?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

You could filter it with a micron filter, micron filters can remove a significant number of bacteria (not 100% ).

Heat will kill some bacteria but not all, you'd have to boil it for like 10 minutes to effectively kill all bacteria. I would say heating it is definitely better than doing nothing though.

Here is a study I found on benzyl alcohol, quoted on a lot of steroid forums:

"Results of the preservative screening tests showed that the formulations containing 0.75% and 0.5% benzyl alcohol are potential candidates to meet the USP/EP criteria (Table 4). Both formulations demonstrated a complete kill of the tested bacterial and fungal species after 7 days. Benzyl alcohol caused significant aggregation at high concentrations (≥1.0% ); however, it was the most effective preservative in maintaining antimicrobial efficacy against bacteria and fungi."

I am kind of confused by part of it though: what do they mean by "aggregation"? I think the difficulty with adding your own benzyl alcohol is that you won't be able to accurately measure the alcohol at all. And if you just add bacteriostatic water you won't have the proportion of benzyl alcohol right either.

My best guess given the situation would be to maybe add bacteriostatic water and micron filter the solution (not perfect, but safer than just storing/using it as is).

I don't understand why you don't care at all how much hydromorphone is in your solution.

We can't tell you precisely what the odds are associated with the risks of injecting this stuff, it's all about luck really, and injecting strong opioids when not medically necessary is never worth the risks, but drug use is not rational. It's not like you're guaranteed to die if you inject it, it's just that you could be that unlucky one who happens to get an infection. I don't think it's a good idea for your detox to just use it all at once, and I would be very concerned about overdose.