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Question about poetry

M

Meatpuppet

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
368
i know there's plenty of ways to write poetry...sonnets, haiku, etc.. rhyme schemes...
almost in an essay form... Odes, etc...
but is there any rules to what makes a poem good? when i started writing..i wrote in this patterned ABAB rhyme scheme... and used realistic imagery and clean consise statements.
Now i find myself making so many philisophical references, and surreal/dreamlike, terets offensive/sparadic, type of stuff i don't think anyone gets it. But to me... the more "free" my ideals became...the more "free" my thoughts became.. the harder it has become to "focus". Alot of my stuff has become rather multi-themed.. or conveys a conglomerate of emotions..
Now i've asked/talked to several people who said they could help me make my poetry better..
And then i go to College Lit class and hear about Whitman or so and so...wrote poems like this..and no one has before..and he/she modernized the face of today's poetry.. blah blah blah
and i was wondering..if these people conformed to some style or form... or even listened to their critiques instead of accomplishing what they were personally aiming for.. they would never be what they are..
So i ask you.. is poetry allowed to have rules? and when u critique it...is that just an opinion? or can anyone actually back it up?
 
Personally i don't let my poetry be ruled by rules or regulations as to "what poetry should/shouldn't be". I write what feels good, and most importantly, i write for myself alone...
I think that one of the most important things about writting poetry of substance is to read what others write, from the contempory poets who post here ( :) ), to people like Baudelaire and Shakespeare, plus everyone in between. IN observing how they write, you will develop your own style that is unique and distinctive. You need not necessarily rhyme all the time, but the biggest hints that i can give you to write well are:
- use punctuation! just because you know how it should be read doesn't mean that anyone else will.
- spell everything correctly, as to avoid confusion with similar words.
- edit your work 1000 times, then leave it for a few months, then edit it again. don't worry if you can't finish a piece either, sometimes they take years.
-use as many words as you can, ie: enlarge your vocabulary as much as you can, and understand how to use every word.
but if you use emotion and can invoke that emotion in your responder, then you've already been successful, and perhaps you don't need anything i've just said...
I hope this helps...
Misty :)
ps, if you want to see some of my stuff not on bluelight, visit my website.
[ 19 August 2002: Message edited by: *Cosmic Mist* ]
 
one...intentionally misspelling words can be an intention effect sometimes...
i've also gotten bitched at or "critiqued" for my use of vocab...saying.. that my poetry just appears good due to highly philosophical terms and big words.
this is the other thing.... editing...
i have battles with myself with editing poems.
the first draft...is always very raw in emotion...always capturing (at least to me) what i'm trying to portray.
If i edit and re-edit..the poem transforms into something else and i feel like.. i'm losing one of my works...and replacing it for another in its entirity... not just making an existing one better.
 
As an art, the "rules" of poetry are entirely up to the poet. In fact, the definition of "poetry" floats...it is whatever you think it is. Poetry is "allowed" to have any rules that you like: a fixed meter, repeated syllable patterns (check out Marianne Moore, for example), rigid stanzas...form can be a wonderful tool that can seriously expand your poetic ability, just as much as it can force your style into an uncomfortable frame. Free verse is certainly easier to jump into, but as you see in Whitman, free verse *can be* more metrical and rhythmic than something written in iambic pentameter. It really depends on the poet and the poem.
Over-editing is definitely possible. I leave my poems alone after the first draft, for at least a few months. When I return to them, I tweak as little as possible, just to adjust the flow of the piece or perhaps change some of the diction. I rarely rewrite lines. If a piece needs more than a little work, I abandon it. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to retain the passion of the moment of writing when editing.
W.H. Auden, an extremely distinguished poet, had a tendency to rewrite and republish pieces, which pissed off a lot of critics. He simply couldn't let anything be *finished*. Seriously, you can ruin a piece if you spend too much time on it. You have to find a balance between the original intent that you had in writing the piece and how you want the piece to come across to the reader.
Cosmic Mist is right; the more you read, the more time you spend seeing how other people write, can only expand your ability and your sensitivity to language. You're painting with words; your palette is only as expansive as your vocabulary. The most important thing here isn't *learning what to do* by reading others' work...it's learning what you *don't* want to do. Rejecting someone else's style indirectly moves you closer to developing your unique poetic voice.
When critiquing, of course you need to bring your opinion into it...it's certainly better if you can demonstrate grounding for your opinions rather than just saying you don't like something, but you have to keep in mind that critics can only apply *their own sense* of poetry to any piece they criticize, so you hacve to take all criticism with a grain of salt, no matter how respected the source.
*What is most important is what you, as an artist, think of what you have created. If you consider it art, then it is art.*
I'll drop you an email soon, man.
spinkle
 
it seems you're already behind the 8-ball here. you've got all these questions, you make it seem like you really want people to give you constructive critisism, but every time they do, you just explain why their input won't work for you.
just write. quit whining about how no one understands you. if you want to write so everyone can read it like a grocery list, then do that. if it's some other road you want to take, take that one.
no one can tell you how to write. sometimes they can tell you how to write better, but you've got to develop your own voice, and your not going to learn that from me. you'll get alot farther if you just write, and leave everyone to figure it out on their own.
this is a poetry forum.
so, write poetry.
eRIC
 
for me I just free verse. Most of my writing goes to music anyway. I may throw in some rhyme, I may not. Our thoughts aren't structured, why should my writing be too.
I don't know, perhaps my sig says it all
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edit: Add the sig dumbass :D
[ 21 August 2002: Message edited by: strange ]
 
If you wanna know what makes a poem good, it's one that comes from the heart. You can't force a good poem out with a rhyme scheme, fancy words, or imagery.
When the words flow from the heart through the pen, that's when you know you're writing a poem worth reading. It's something special, something that's raw, full of emotion, and effortlessly created.
Strangely enough, my best writings have been born during stages where I'm either in incredible bliss or under overwhelming depression and frustration with the world.
 
argh! i leave this forum for a few days, and when i return all of the threads have fights developing in them! Peace everyone! opinions are subjective - yeah??
I just wanted to add something i forgot from my last post - the thing i consider to be most important in writing something of "substance"...
INSPIRATION!!
Think that the biggestmistake that people make is that they try to force themselves to write poetry, when the best poetry is inspired. Whether it be bliss or depression as Mysticalis says, or something different, that's what does it for me. :)
 
if you didn't want my honest opinion, you shouldn't have asked for it. and thanks for all the personal attacks. i've been too full of myself lately, what with being a real poet and a great writer and all.
and i'll stop reading your posts, i promise.
 
my god.
do you really see this as a personal attack.
what would i be attacking.
you could be 15 or 50, boy or man, you could be stephen king slumming for an idea for his next book.
I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU
you're not going to learn anything from the frilly answers most of your readers will give you, not here, not anywhere. if you want the truth, i'll tell you what i know, but come on. you're not Walt Whitman. You're not TS Eliot. you're just starting out. if you get all riled up and roiled boiled with me... i don't know. you're just going to take offense to this too, so go ahead. i'm getting tired of this anyway.
there is one last thing i think might help, and i didn't say it so don't take it too personally, this applies to everyone.
"There is nothing worse than a poet who doesn't read poetry" Oscar Wilde
 
guys just let it go! stop deffending yourselves and the reasons why you wrote what you wrote, and just drop it. BeinGeneric, ok you were just giving what you thought was reasonable critique, fine now youve said your bit so drop it. ShockMoralityParadox sXe you were just presenting your argument and stating why you write like you do, fine youve said it, now let it go. If you two want to argue thats fine. you have MSN, ICQ, AIM or email to do it in, dont do it here. Now both of you ignore each other and go to your rooms ;)
As for a real reply to this post, I just think the one thing that makes poetry good is feeling. if i can feel the anger, sadness, joy, fear, whatever in a poem then i think its a sucess. ive never met anyone who has a poem that theyve written that theyre completely satisfied with, theres always things youd like to change, and thats fine. Once youve done a piece you think is perfect and that yorue completely happy with, i think htats the sad point coz if youre totaly happy with what youve done you wont push it any further and you wont grow, and thats sad.
Lately ive been looking at a lot of art, expecially surrealism like Dali etc and its really got me thinking about finding some different ways to convey what i want to say, not just writing things in a surealist way, like using all metaphors etc but thinking of totaly different things that ive never seen before. I cant really explain what i mean but keep your eyes peeled and you might just see me post some of my idea's once ive worked them out totally.....
but basically i think it all comes down to.....you guessed it (well you would have if youve read all the replys in this thread) INSPIRATION!!!! lol never let it be said that im an individual ;) if youve got a passion for what youre writing then itll come out good, no matter how much the spelling sucks and the grammer is wrong and the style is unstylish. its all about the feeling.
 
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