Question about Lamictal, Clariton, LSA-- quick replies appreciated

[Weasel7]

Hello All,

I hope this is the correct place to post this; I did a good bit of looking around. The size of these forums are a bit confusing and disconcerting to me, but hopefully I will adjust soon. Anyway, if I was wondering if anyone could tell me whether they thought a certain combination was safe. I am on Lamictal for BP2, and I just upped my dose as instructed by the doctor yesterday. When this happened, today and yesterday, I started to get very itchy, so I just took a clariton and it went away fine. Now I'm getting ready to do sub-lingual morning glory seeds (150 seeds-- I am very small and light). Does this sound dangerous? I am particularly interested in whether or not the LSA could increase the risk of a seizure, because some drugs in combination with Lamictal (Lamotrigine) will do this. Also, I have been feeling kind of off today and I wondered if this could be from the clariton combined with lamictal. Anyone have any thoughts??

 

[sekio]

if you have medication for bipolar disorder you shouldn't be on psychedelics.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Anecdotal accounts suggest no contraindication between lamotrigine and psychedelics.

However, if you're upping your dose your BP is not well managed at this point, given the psychological risk associated with psychedelic use, I'd put off tripping for a while until you have things under control.

 

[Survived Abortion]

My perspective is that all "anticonvulsants" are contraindicated with psychedelics, and that would include lamotrigine. I'm not sure why this is, but there is a peculiar reaction between 5-ht2a agonists and anticonvulsants. If I were you, I would stop taking your quack-prescribed "medication". It's not going to make you any better, and will only make things worse in the long run. You can't leave it up to the doctors to take you off it, they never will.

Every single person I've known who has been on that garbage - or similar - has got worse. One guy I knew was on anticonvulsants for so-called "epilepsy", and whilst on it, his seizures began getting worse to the point where he was fitting more than once every day and falling down the stairs and shit. At some point, he got an appointment with the neurologist, and I escorted him safely to London (whereupon he had a fit in the hospital while waiting to be seen). After a week as an inpatient, it turns out he was having "pseudo-seizures" all these years, as a result of repressed emotions not properly dealt with. He had a breakdown in hospital and was treated with psychotherapy, taken off the medication, and he has been fine ever since.

There is also someone very close to me who was diagnosed as "bipolar". Yet he is, and has been for a long time, an alcoholic. The quacks put him on valproate, and all it did was turn him into a fucking zombie. He tried to commit suicide by swallowing a massive bunch of them, and had to be rushed to intensive care. He didn't even recognize his friends or family. Some fucking "medication" that stuff is.

And there's me, who was on benzos and prescribed SSRIs/SNRIs for 9 and 10 years respectively. That ended in a horror story, but luckily I survived it. But it has taken me a long time to get over the brain damage and get my life back together in the aftermath. SSRIs, benzos, anticonvulsants, antipsychotics - they're all as bad as one another when taken "as prescribed", i.e, on a daily basis. That is not treatment. That is barbaric.

Bipolar, depression, epilepsy, all of that - they're all just imbalances of mind and body resulting from a continuous repression of emotional memory. Blocked energy channels. All psychiatric drugs do is squash all that down like pressure cooker and hide it from your awareness. Then, when the time really comes to face the music, the resulting explosion is 1000X worse.

Try meditation instead.

Psychedelics? As long as you're not taking them with the same regularity that you would a prescribed medication, then absolutely yes. But not whilst on "anticonvulsants". If anything is going to help you dig deep in to yourself and uproot the cause of your so-called "bipolar" syndrome, it will be psychedelics. You just need to approach tripping with mindfulness and loving intention.

 

[Weasel7]

Never Knows Best, thanks for that--- it's about what I was thinking. I'll try to just let the Lamictal settle in for a bit before I attempt another big trip.

Survived Abortion, sorry you're not a believer in psychological drugs, but I don't blame you after your experiences. Our experiences often shape our beliefs. For me, the hope of finding the right medication for my system is all that keeps me from not committing suicide --- well, that and exploring the mysteries of psychedelics as safely as possible. So, needless to say, whenever I hear someone trashing medication, it makes me upset because it really is my last resort. Again, everyone has their own life experience, and we shouldn't project our own experience onto others. But thanks for the reply.

 

[atara]

LSA, despite centuries of safe use, has relatively unstudied pharmacology, doesn't fit the effect profile of any well-characterized psychedelics -- it isn't LSD -- and can get nasty in high doses. I'm extremely wary of combining it with anything like lamotrigine because you definitely could be playing with fire. I think you should not just run off and take a big dose while you're on medication.

Plus, as sekio said, bipolar disorder and psychedelics can be bad.

Survived_Abortion: Benzos are nasty and valproate is extremely nasty, but lamotrigine is far less likely to cause a physical dependence and that awful rebound syndrome. Ultimately a drug is a drug, who gives it to you notwithstanding, and taking drugs every day means your mind will get used to the effects and learn to expect them. There's always a downside to this.

You are, fundamentally, correct, though: the Number Needed to Treat for lamotrigine is 7 in the best case, which means that, statistically, one in seven treated patients will experience a serious benefit from the drug as defined by the depression inventory. The other 6... will get a small effect or just placebo.

 

[Weasel7]

Well, I know for me, this sort of experimentation is the only thing saving me from the struggle of living with bp2. It's never done me harm, but I can't speak for anyone else. The only exception is alcohol. On alcohol I tend to be impulsive, so I've had to work hard to have better self control. Even then, it's not like I have psychotic breakdown or anything. I don't see how it would really be a problem unless you're like schizophrenic or MPD, or maybe a very bad case of BP type 1. With BP2, the main symptom I have to watch is depressive episodes, and drugs do nothing but elevate my mood or give me self insight. Again, alcohol being the exception. Gotta be careful with that one.

 

[atara]

Well, I know for me, this sort of experimentation is the only thing saving me from the struggle of living with bp2. It's never done me harm, but I can't speak for anyone else. The only exception is alcohol. On alcohol I tend to be impulsive, so I've had to work hard to have better self control. Even then, it's not like I have psychotic breakdown or anything. I don't see how it would really be a problem unless you're like schizophrenic or MPD, or maybe a very bad case of BP type 1. With BP2, the main symptom I have to watch is depressive episodes, and drugs do nothing but elevate my mood or give me self insight. Again, alcohol being the exception. Gotta be careful with that one.

For the record, I'm not telling you to stop taking your medication, or even suggesting that. I'm saying that combining LSA with lamotrigine should be approached with caution. Start with a threshold dose -- whatever a threshold dose is for you, maybe it's 40 seeds if your tolerance is that low -- pay attention to any signs of physical toxicity, and work up slowly from there. That's the safest way to approach any unknown combination.

I'm sorry to hear that you have bipolar disorder. Psychedelics can be a source of pleasure and insight and can help people with their lives, but as a rule you should avoid being dependent on a compound to the point where you need it to be happy. If you're looking for stress relief right now, I am confident it is safe to smoke some marijuana. Just don't get too high -- weed is not a contest.

I suggest taking up some sort of physical recreational activity. Skateboarding, tennis, snowboarding/skiing, hiking, whatever it is, the important part is to do it for fun, not just for exercise.

 

[Weasel7]

Thanks, that's all good advice. I typically start small with everything, even before I was on any meds, mostly because I am so small and light. The first time I tried LSA, I took 80 seeds and felt nothing. It actually takes me at least 6 grams to get anything like a high. While we are on the subject of interactions, my doc prescribed a new SSRI for me, and I know this means I can no longer do DXM, but does it mean I have to give up LSA too?

Yeah, Bipolar 2 with major depression sucks. I am never happy in my normal state of mind and I can't remember the last time I was happy for longer than 5 minutes-- unless I am on something. People talk about being happy and content in their lives and I don't understand what they're talking about in the least. But, hold some magic seeds in your mouth for 45 minutes and you go to happy land. I'm trying to stay physically active, but most days I'm too depressed to do anything but crawl out of bed and go to work, then come back and suffer in my mind until I pass out from exhaustion or drink alcohol or benadryl. Nevertheless I'm trying to get my friends to drag me out to work out with them. Hopefully if I have someone else forcing me to come along, I'll be able to get active again.

 

[sekio]

generally those on SSRIs or SNRIs find that serotonergics like LSD/psilocin (and by extent likely LSA) lose their 'lustre' and require much bigger doses (or only produce mediocre trips). all but the most desperate eventually give up psychedelics as a result

you should also sit down and think about your life - are there environmental factors apart from *you* that are making your life more difficult than it needs to be? think of ways to resolve those issues that perhaps do not involve drugs. for instance, if you want to do something other than sit and hate yourself after work, you could consider reading a novel, building models, drawing, or making music and poetry. at the vesry least you should express yourself - it makes a lot of people feel better tahn sitting around feeling lame inside
make sure to listen to your body too. if you don't treat your body well, it is liable to make your mind feel "burnt out" and generally lame all the time. if you find your stomach is gurgling all the time and you have no energy, make sure you've got enough caloric energy to get your brain running, and enough protien/nutrients to get neurotransmitters working at full speed. if you eat enough but still feel "sick" or "not right" perhaps you need to modify your diet. and so on and so forth

drugs are not the only way to happiness.

 

[Weasel7]

I'm seeing a deitician and with her help I am no longer currently underweight, for the first time in many years. However despite crossing into the healthy weight zone, and waiting a month and a half for the body to recover from starvation mode, my energy is still severely lacking. Believe me, I've tried pretty much everything you can name. I've found that if a depressive or panic attack is in the medium range, then drawing helps diminish it. I can no longer focus on novels or focus on writing my own stories like I used to. I just get lost in my thoughts and continue the cycle. And if the attack is bad, then nothing will help except having a person sitting in the room beside me and not leaving for at least an hour. Because if there are other people around I don't want them to see my breakdowns. I write a little poetry, build some clay animals, but in an hour or two the monsters in my head come back. But then, you know, I read about the trip reports where people have deep and meaningful experiences, and explore their minds and the universe with mind altering substances. And then I start to plan my own trip, and it gives me something exciting and sort of forbidden to look forward to, an adventure. If I hadn't started these explorations I would not have found kava, which has probably saved my life due to its almost immediate calming and mood lifting effects. Like an emergency inhaler for an asthma attack, getting mildly kava stoned, planning a trip on another substance, or drinking (small) amounts with friends, are what keeps me alive.