Question about female logic.

[boognish in brown]

Hey guys what's up, so I made friends with this girl who's in one of my classes and is going for the same major, and on the first day of that class I went out to her car to smoke a cigarette with her, and she busts out some dope right in front of my face and sniffs a fat rail. I had just gotten off my 2nd time in Suboxone Maintenance because I wanted to be clear headed for school, but as a junkie myself when I was offered some I gladly accepted and went to the store, got a pack of rigs, and introduced her to the wonderful world of IV drug use. We continued to hang out, and I must say she's really very cool, so similar to me in so many ways, I'm honestly more attracted to her personality than her appearance, which might I add is also quite stunning. I'm now back in Suboxone Maintenance, and really want to stay off the dirt for good, so I told her if she continues to use I can't be friends with her anymore, and I am always willing to help her out with a shot of suboxone because I don't want her to be sick. I have a feeling that she's probably still using, I can just tell, but unless I know that she is definitely 100% still on the stuff I'm not going to discontinue our friendship. I can tell she's in to me, like in kind of a romantic way, she's just too occupied with her piece of SHIT boyfriend, and her addiction that I don't think either one of us would fuck up a good friendship with a relationship that will most definitely fail due to heroin.

Anyways, yesterday I was hanging out with her, and my best friend, who is also trying to stay off of heroin, quite successfully, especially considering his situation, I mean sure he's going to college, but he's spent the past 2 years living on the streets and doing whatever it takes to score a bag, he's still homeless, but in a much better place emotionally. Anyways, we were hanging out and me an my buddy were talking about injecting mdma, and how amazing the rush is. Amy sounded really interested in trying it so I said today after I get out of work that I would go pick up a gram and we could get zooted. So I did that, kept trying to get ahold of her, she keeps telling me a later and later time until finally she's "too tired" so I just ended up shooting the whole gram with my friend thinking about the situation.

She said she would need a piece of a sub at some point today, when I offered to come to her with a shot of suboxone, she declined saying she had a tiny piece from somewhere earlier. On the phone she sounded COMPLETELY jammed out of her mind. She would get sick if she accepted the sobo, and had infact done dope today or tonight. So she declined, is it safe to assume the reason is because she had done some dirt tonight?

The other question, is she sounded really pumped to try booting mol for the first time, and I'm wondering what could've changed that, I suppose if she's on heroin she wouldn't want me to see her. Or do girls just associate sex with molly? Because if that's the case all I have to say is I just really fucking love spending time with this girl, and I wouldn't even try anything since she currently has a boyfriend, and I wouldn't want her to try anything either because if she's willing to cheat on who she's with now, that speaks very negatively of her character. Of course these are all just assumptions that my zonked mind is making, but they seem like relatively safe ones.

Thanks for any advice you have to give me in advanced.
Boog~~

 

[pofacedhoe]

your whole friendship/romantic edged relationship is based on drugs so far

and you are trying to recover from heroin addiction

this girl is bad news for you, AND she isn't even single

 

[Beachcat]

^^^ agreed 100%. Not only that, the title of this thread should really be "question about addict logic" ....her being female really has nothing to do with it.

 

[missmeyet?]

Agreed 200% with both above posts...

This is bad news just waiting to happen dear. Grab your poor best friends who is doing better and stay the hell away from this girl. You know in your heart that this girl is for sure still using, you just keep hoping not.

 

[boognish in brown]

True about the title, I just couldn't think of anything and was getting frustrated so I just tried to put the word female in it somewhere so the title would somewhat match what i'm describing. But anywhooo, even if she is on dope, what if she really wants to stop? I know when I used I wanted to stop but just couldn't. nd her boyfriend isnt an issue, not with the way she talks about him it doesnt even sound like she likes him

 

[alasdairm]

there's no such thing as "female logic".

alasdair

 

[missmeyet?]

Ohh, alasdair......<sigh>


So what if she wants to quit using, if she does then she would take the subs..and if the boyfriend really wasn't an issue at all, why not get rid of him? She is most likely leading you on a bit...she likes you and your attention..she is not going to tell you how great he really is. Trust me, (sound familiar?), as long as he is "the boyfriend" he is an issue.

 

[alasdairm]

before i am misunderstood, let me clear that up.

what i mean is there's no such thing as a single analysis of logic which applies consistently to all women. women are as capable as men of being logical.

alasdair

 

[Pagey]

Not only that, the title of this thread should really be "question about addict logic" ....her being female really has nothing to do with it.

Yup. I feel like your friendship with her is probably just going to bring a lot more confusion/annoyance/a probable relapse - not that I don't think you're dedicated to your recovery, but I know I certainly couldn't hang around a heroin user regularly without relapsing eventually.

If she does indeed really want to stop...that's a first step of course, but there's only so much you can do. You can show that you'll be there for her if she needs you, steer her towards any programs or methods that might've helped you etc., but I honestly don't think it'll be beneficial for either of you to be around each other too much even if you're both trying to quit...one relapse is more likely to hurt the both of you.

 

[B9]

before i am misunderstood, let me clear that up.

what i mean is there's no such thing as a single analysis of logic which applies consistently to all women. women are as capable as men of being logical.

alasdair

I'd have thought everyone knew you meant that anyway - I thought it was funny - which may mean I need re -educated

 

[ilikestims]

jesus i stopped reading as soon as you said IV drug use.

you cannot get in a healthy relationship with someone else while addicted to drugs.

it's ugly but it's the truth

before i am misunderstood, let me clear that up.

what i mean is there's no such thing as a single analysis of logic which applies consistently to all women. women are as capable as men of being logical.

alasdair

disagreed. women are to logic what men are to emotions.

 

[missmeyet?]

before i am misunderstood, let me clear that up.

what i mean is there's no such thing as a single analysis of logic which applies consistently to all women. women are as capable as men of being logical.

alasdair

I was only teasing you my dear. I took no offense to what you said!

 

[rangrz]

I suppose one could form their own axiomatic system of logic and arbitrarily name that system "female logic". But that would just be an abstract symbol, like any other, to represent this (hypothetical) logic system.

Broadly speaking, I've noticed females to be as competent at logic (formal/mathematical and informal/inductive/scientific) as my male colleagues in my time. I dunno why this generalization of female => ~logic exists. If you've ever seen a female do mathematics or computer programming, then you've seen them use formal logic. If you've ever known a female scientist or physician or detective, then you've seen them using inductive/informal logic.

STFU w the misogyny already erryone.

 

[verso]

women are to logic what men are to emotions.

Huh... that's really interesting. I like that.

 

[alasdairm]

the idea that all women without exception act in a certain way, and all men without exception act another way is laughable nonsense.

alasdair

 

[ilikestims]

the idea that all women without exception act in a certain way, and all men without exception act another way is laughable nonsense.

alasdair

it's easy to knock down a hypothesis of your own creation, but in reality you can ask around and you'll be loathe to find humans who actually believe your statement.

what you said are "women are as capable of being logical as men." that is not true. just like it is not true to say, "men are as capable of being nurturing as women."

 

[animal_cookie]

I suppose one could form their own axiomatic system of logic and arbitrarily name that system "female logic". But that would just be an abstract symbol, like any other, to represent this (hypothetical) logic system.

Broadly speaking, I've noticed females to be as competent at logic (formal/mathematical and informal/inductive/scientific) as my male colleagues in my time. I dunno why this generalization of female => ~logic exists. If you've ever seen a female do mathematics or computer programming, then you've seen them use formal logic. If you've ever known a female scientist or physician or detective, then you've seen them using inductive/informal logic.

STFU w the misogyny already erryone.

for a forum so against stereotyping drug users as losers, i am constantly amazed at the stereotyping that people exhibit in SLR towards how a male or female should think/act.

 

[alasdairm]

it's easy to knock down a hypothesis of your own creation, but in reality you can ask around and you'll be loathe to find humans who actually believe your statement.

what you said are "women are as capable of being logical as men." that is not true. just like it is not true to say, "men are as capable of being nurturing as women."

there are roughly 3,000,000,000 women on the planet. you can say with authority that not one of them. not a single one can think logically?

there are roughly 3,000,000,000 men on the planet. you can say with authority that not one of them. not a single one can feel or express emotion?

your comments are ridiculous generalisations. if you disagree, fine, i'll agree to disagree but suggesting that all women, without exception and all men without exception behave the same way makes you sound ridiculous.

alasdair

 

[ilikestims]

you sound way too emotional to talk about this. instead of taking my comments at face value, you are blowing them out of proportion and inserting your own bias about what you THINK i am saying rather than simply tackling what i actually AM saying.

there are roughly 3,000,000,000 women on the planet. you can say with authority that not one of them. not a single one can think logically?

there are roughly 3,000,000,000 men on the planet. you can say with authority that not one of them. not a single one can feel or express emotion?

we are not talking out one exception or outlier. we are talking about men and women as a rule.

your comments are ridiculous generalisations.

the nature of the subject is about generalizations.

if you disagree, fine, i'll agree to disagree but suggesting that all women, without exception and all men without exception behave the same way makes you sound ridiculous.

alasdair

when did i say that? you've just made it up.

men and women have similar yet different psyches. their inclinations differ. men's inclinations are to logic and reason -- "logos." women's inclinations are to emotions and relatedness. men, as a whole, no matter how hard they try, cannot naturally default to the inclinations of eros. vice versa for women.

i have read much jung on the matter and i fully agree with him.

Feminine psychology contains an element analogous to the anima of man. Primarily, it is not of an affective nature but is a quasi-intellectual element best described by the word ‘prejudice.’ The conscious side of woman corresponds to the emotional side of man, not to his ‘mind.’ Mind makes up the ‘soul,’ or better, the ‘animus’ of woman, and just as the anima of the man consists of inferior relatedness, full of affect, so the animus of woman consists of inferior judgements, or better said, opinions.

The animus of woman consists in a plurality of preconceived opinions, and is therefore not so susceptible of personification by one figure, but appears more often as a group or crowd.

Eros is an interweaving; logos is differentiating knowledge, clarifying light; eros is relatedness; logos is discrimination and detachment. Thus the inferior logos in the woman’s animus appears as something quite unrelated, and therefore as an inaccessible prejudice, or as an opinion which, irritatingly enough, has nothing to do with the essential nature of the object.

i am not saying that women do not think logically and/or that men do not think emotionally. that is your straw man.

all i am really saying is that women's default is eros and men's default is logos. or, if you would prefer, women are the moon and men is the sun.

 

[rangrz]

I dunno...maybe it depends on the culture/sub-culture you hang out in? Due to social conditioning/roles expected of people, it might be that in some cultures/sub-cultures, females do act less logical?

I dunno, in the ones I spend/spent the most time in (broadly speaking, that has been Academica [specifically: the natural sciences, medicine and engineering]) members of the Armed Forces, and the alty/"underground" party/EDM/drug scene, I've found in all of those, that men and women perform to the same level of competence on both issues of logic/reason and issues of interpersonal relations/other emo shit.

But even outside of that, the overwhelming majority of my interactions with females when they where required to use logic (of the usual deductive mathematical sort, or the usual scientific type inductive sort) I've found them to be as competent as the males.

Jung is outdated and was not based on rigorous experimental evidence btw...modern psych is quite different from that era of psych...check some of it out.