Question about Dianabol

RaoulDuke45 said:
Who told you that? The guy that sold it to you? Methandrostenolone doesn't react strongly with the androgen receptor but still exerts its effects through the androgen receptor in vivo. These include dramatic increases in protein synthesis, glycogenolysis, and muscle strength over a short space of time. In high doses (30 mg or more per day), side effects such as gynecomastia, high blood pressure, acne and male pattern baldness may begin to occur. The drug causes severe masculinising effects in women even at low doses. In addition, it is metabolized into methylestradiol by aromatase. This means that without the administration of aromatase inhibitors such as anastrozole or aminoglutethimide, estrogenic effects will appear over time in men. Many users will combat the estrogenic side effects with Nolvadex or Clomid. In addition, as with other 17α-alkylated steroids, the use of methandrostenolone over extended periods of time can result in liver damage without appropriate care.
The 17α-methylation of the steroid does allow it to pass through the liver with only a small portion of it broken down (hence causing the aforementioned damage to the liver) allowing it to be effetcive when taken orally. It also has the effect of decreasing the steroid's affinity for sex hormone binding globulin, a protein that de-activates steroid molecules and prevents them from further reactions with the body. As a result, methandrostenolone is significantly more active than an equivalent quantity of testosterone, resulting in rapid growth of muscle tissue. However, the concomitant elevation in estrogen levels - a result of the aromatization of methandrostenolone - results in significant water retention. This gives the appearance of great gains in mass and strength, which prove to be temporary once the steroid is discontinued and water weight drops. Because of this, it is often used by bodybuilders only at the start of a "steroid cycle", to facilitate rapid strength increases and the appearance of great size, while compounds such as testosterone or nandrolone with long acting esters build up in the body to an appreciable amount capable of supporting anabolic function on their own.
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1st of all great job knowing how to use google and copy and paste, impressive 8).

2nd of all You might want to hold off on the cocky attitude when you clearly don't have any knowledge aside from how to use google and copy paste. I've been in the AAS game for well over 10 years and to this day I still do research and don't rely on stuff that is necessarily "Old School" ways of thinking like using nolva or clomid while on cycle for estrogen control. Nolva is used once signs of gyno appear and like in the article that you made in bold it says to use an Aromatase Inhibitor such as Anastrozole (Arimidex which I mentioned) or the better choice is Aromasin because it carries much less sides than Arimidex. Aromatase Inhibitors are much better at controlling estrogen than nolva or clomid while on cycle. Nolva and/or Clomid are better suited for Post Cycle Therapy (PCT), notice the "P" stands for Post meaning after the cycle is completed. When you use clomid or nolva while on cycle it is not called PCT, it is called gyno control because that is the only thing it should be used for on cycle. Using either of those on cycle for estrogen control is an "Old School" way of doing things that has been proven not to be as effective as using an AI for estrogen control.

I never said it didn't do damage to the liver, but it doesn't do significant damage like it is most times said to. Liver supplements such as NAC and r-ALA help to minimize the damage even more and then as long as the liver is not diseased it will repair itself over time which is why you need to take time off between using any oral steroid. Your article even says "...over extended periods of time can result in liver damage without appropriate care." That is why dbol, or any other oral, should not be used for more than 6 weeks and why NAC and r-ALA are recommended and significant time off before using another oral is also recommended.

Now, as for the gains that are achieved using dbol, I never said anything about doing dbol only, I am very much against anyone doing any oral only cycle, as testosterone should always be the base of any cycle. However, much of the gains from dbol are easily kept especially the strength. It isn't all water weight. Water retention (bloat) can also be easily controlled through drinking more water first of all and limiting sodium intake. Along with that if an Aromatase Inhibitor is used, water retention that might be associated with high estrogen is being dealt with.

So I ask what exactly are you arguing here, because that just reinforced my original post?
 
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maakshif said:
1st of all great job knowing how to use google and copy and paste, impressive 8).

2nd of all You might want to hold off on the cocky attitude when you clearly don't have any knowledge aside from how to use google and copy paste. I've been in the AAS game for well over 10 years and to this day I still do research and don't rely on stuff that is necessarily "Old School" ways of thinking like using nolva or clomid while on cycle for estrogen control. Nolva is used once signs of gyno appear and like in the article that you made in bold it says to use an Aromatase Inhibitor such as Anastrozole (Arimidex which I mentioned) or the better choice is Aromasin because it carries much less sides than Arimidex. Aromatase Inhibitors are much better at controlling estrogen than nolva or clomid while on cycle. Nolva and/or Clomid are better suited for Post Cycle Therapy (PCT), notice the "P" stands for Post meaning after the cycle is completed. When you use clomid or nolva while on cycle it is not called PCT, it is called gyno control because that is the only thing it should be used for on cycle. Using either of those on cycle for estrogen control is an "Old School" way of doing things that has been proven not to be as effective as using an AI for estrogen control.

I never said it didn't do damage to the liver, but it doesn't do significant damage like it is most times said to. Liver supplements such as NAC and r-ALA help to minimize the damage even more and then as long as the liver is not diseased it will repair itself over time which is why you need to take time off between using any oral steroid. Your article even says "...over extended periods of time can result in liver damage without appropriate care." That is why dbol, or any other oral, should not be used for more than 6 weeks and why NAC and r-ALA are recommended and significant time off before using another oral is also recommended.

Now, as for the gains that are achieved using dbol, I never said anything about doing dbol only, I am very much against anyone doing any oral only cycle, as testosterone should always be the base of any cycle. However, much of the gains from dbol are easily kept especially the strength. It isn't all water weight. Water retention (bloat) can also be easily controlled through drinking more water first of all and limiting sodium intake. Along with that if an Aromatase Inhibitor is used, water retention that might be associated with high estrogen is being dealt with.

So I ask what exactly are you arguing here, because that just reinforced my original post?
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Yea I did copy and paste it that much is true, but just because you say "Ive been in the AAS game for 10 years" doesnt mean that makes you anymore right that I am, and as I have seen most peoples attitudes on how to use these compounds are largely based on their own anecdotal information which can be egregiously incorrect in some cases. The reason Im saying this is because you referring to my advice as "old school" which is largely a matter of opinion and not fact. Just because you have used this substance without any negative side-effects doesnt mean that it wont have that same effect on everyone, and yes I may have made an error of misnomer when I said he should use PCT as I had thought all PCT's were aromatase inhibitors which from reading more I have found that they are not the same. But just like you are entitled to have your opinion and call my ways "old school" Im entitled to my opinion to say that I wouldnt use this substance because of the large chance of androgenic side effects, and I wouldnt recommend it to others either. So thanks for wagering your opinion in and for helping me clear up the difference between SARMS and AI's ;)
 
RaoulDuke45 said:
Yea I did copy and paste it that much is true, but just because you say "Ive been in the AAS game for 10 years" doesnt mean that makes you anymore right that I am, and as I have seen most peoples attitudes on how to use these compounds are largely based on their own anecdotal information which can be egregiously incorrect in some cases. The reason Im saying this is because you referring to my advice as "old school" which is largely a matter of opinion and not fact. Just because you have used this substance without any negative side-effects doesnt mean that it wont have that same effect on everyone, and yes I may have made an error of misnomer when I said he should use PCT as I had thought all PCT's were aromatase inhibitors which from reading more I have found that they are not the same. But just like you are entitled to have your opinion and call my ways "old school" Im entitled to my opinion to say that I wouldnt use this substance because of the large chance of androgenic side effects, and I wouldnt recommend it to others either. So thanks for wagering your opinion in and for helping me clear up the difference between SARMS and AI's ;)
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Me being in the AAS game means that I have a pretty good amount of experience and while you are correct that that in and of itself doesn't make me any more right than you, the research that I do on a daily basis and the facts that I presented does. Nothing that I stated in either of my posts relating to steroids is based off of my opinion, it is based off of scientific facts, like blood work and other information gathered from scientific studies and blood work from myself and friends.

I'm pretty certain that I stated in my original post that all AAS can and will affect everyone differently, so there was really no need for you to cover that again, however there are some basic effects that everyone will experience from them.

As for my "opinion" of your ways being "Old School", that again is based off of fact my friend. There have been hundreds of studies showing that AI's are better than SERMS (not SARMS, those are totally different compounds) to use while on cycle and that SERMS are to be used for PCT. The reason your ways are considered "Old School" is because that is how they did things back in the 70's and 80's and have been shown not to be as effective now due to new compounds better suited for the job. Again that is scientific fact not my opinion.

You are very much entitled to your opinion and I'm glad you posted and got it corrected, that is the important thing. The problem I have/had with your opinion though, is you posted information that was largely inaccurate and presented it as facts. I was simply correcting you with proper information. Giving misinformation to people, especially when it is your opinion and not based off of facts or based off of a limited understanding of the facts, as reasons to use or not use something can be very dangerous especially in this lifestyle of AAS. That is another reason that I pointed out that I have 10+ years of experience with AAS and I do research to this day. I've got a very good grasp of how most all of these compounds work, how to combat most sides, what proper ancillaries to have for certain compounds, how the body works, etc, etc, but the way things are done is constantly changing as there are people finding new safer ways to do things and that is where research comes into play. That is one reason it was fairly easy to notice that you just copied and pasted and don't have a very deep knowledge of dbol for sure, but most AAS in general. Unfortunately, it is getting more and more difficult to weed through all of the misinformation that is out there, but that is what makes forum like this one so great. It is a good place to post questions if something doesn't sound quite right or doesn't make sense.
 
Another reason why the "Old School" ways are good, is because back in the '70s and '80s, steroid use was not illegal anywhere, and medical advice on how to best use them was much more widely available.

Then of course the US government spent something like $300 million on 3 huge studies, trying to find reasons to schedule AAS, and when all 3 studies came up empty-handed for such reasons, they decided to schedule them anyway. Since then other countries have followed, luckily in the UK, Canada and Germany among many others, steroid use is not illegal.

But medical information on them has become a lot harder to obtain and serious users, or consultants such as myself, have had to restort to studying the raw research on them, since distillates are not available. It is a worthwhile endeavor if you have the time and brains for it, but it is extremely time-consuming. Endocrinology is extremely complex. I have logged over 5,000 hours of study in the field and have not seen the end of it. I'm sure maakshif has also logged huge time. Heed those who know better, for it is quite a vast science.
 
a cycle without test??? I would say don't bother. And I will help beat the "do more research" horse to glue with everyone else.
 
I am going to run a 5 week cycle of dbol, it is pharmaceutical as well not some black market bullshit.. I was thinking among the lines of something like this

Week 1 20mg
Week 2 20mg
Week3 30mg
Week4 30mg
Week5 40mg
Pct-30 days of nolva
And I was going to take
-fish oil
-milk thistle
- and a supplement for my liver ... Haven't decided which one yet though.... Can I get any feedback if any of you approve of this or think I should change something up. Thankyou
 
I read that it is very toxic on your liver and I read as well that u shouldn't take more than around 50mg
 
Ryan3 said:
I am going to run a 5 week cycle of dbol, it is pharmaceutical as well not some black market bullshit.. I was thinking among the lines of something like this

Week 1 20mg
Week 2 20mg
Week3 30mg
Week4 30mg
Week5 40mg
Pct-30 days of nolva
And I was going to take
-fish oil
-milk thistle
- and a supplement for my liver ... Haven't decided which one yet though.... Can I get any feedback if any of you approve of this or think I should change something up. Thankyou
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Taper up, then back down.. 20mg - 30mg - 30mg - 30mg - 20mg - Off...

You don't need nolvadex for 5 weeks of low dose dbol on its own, your HPTA could be slightly supressed but it will return to normal..
Clomid would be better at boosting LH, but you DONT want that either...

Milk thistle doesn't do shit..!!

Take all your dbol 1 hour pre-workout, 20mins after a large glass of white grapefruit juice...
 
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