Quesions for heroin addicts

[Z Y G G Y]

After prolonged use for most addicts I knew, heroin does something to the user that they turn into a compulsive lair. Lying becomes alright if it increase the likelihood of the addict getting heroin.

The friend I've known since 8th grade, M, after several years of heroin addiction completely changed her personality. She used to make up these insane stories about all these things happening. Anything to keep the addiction safe at home.

It seems that M almost lived in a different world. It seemed like she lost a part of her brain during her addiction and talking to her like a normal person was impossible. She has made up so many different stories to cover up her actions that she was getting confused in them.

Now that she is sober she is completely normal. Her brain has completely recovered and she is getting a degree in Social Work.

The reason I bring up my friend is to illustrate to you that you might want to take your daughter's words with a grain of salt. Heroin after prolonged abuse can bring out the worst in people.

I would try to rely less on what she says but more on objective stuff like a drug test, her taking suboxone while you watch her.

The words of a drug addict IMO are pretty much worthless, at least in most cases.

She is an adult so all this is out of your hands. The only thing you can do is make good decisions when it comes to helping her.

No reason to beat yourself up for what she is doing. Your daughter's addiction is in no way your fault.

Chances are that eventually she will recover. Sooner or later. I know a lot of people who used to be heavy drug users and now have families and good jobs. Actually all of them do.

My mom has gone through what you are going through when I was a heroin addict in 2008. She was in pretty bad shape and started developing mental problems due to my addiction. If a person with a family becomes a heroin addict, the whole family suffers. It's normal but try to keep as much of a positive outlook as you can. Your worrying and getting panic attacks will not make her addiction go away.

Just remember that most likely she will recover. It will happen one day.

 

[dharmabum22]

No matter how much it hurts or how frustrated you get with your daughter, do not give up on her. Just keep talkin about positive stuff. Gettin clean is easy, staying that way is hard. I myself, after doin opiates for so long, struggle big time when I am not on an opiate. have hardly any motivation, no energy and I stay secluded. Methadone treatment is good (even though kickin that shit takes forever) cause your receptors are fully occupied. People do great on methadone because, keepin it real, they are high all day. Running around all happy, takin care of shit/ business but are not hustlin and coppin all day. One of my counselors in the past told me about people being natuarally endorphin deficient. Basically , opiate deficient. Endorphin means "morhine within" in latin. I've always been depressed but when I discoverd opiates, I felt happy and normal. There is nothing morally wrong with wanting to feel good, "The pursuit of happiness!". Don't give up on your daughter,( even though, hittin rock bottom can be pretty revelating). Take her to Florida or the Northern CA to feel good without drugs maybe?

 

[eon_blue]

Sure you can switch from sub to dope, then dope to sub depending on availability and your cravings. But does that mean that you can use dope while on suboxone? Or does that mean you can switch b/w dope and suboxone which is a real pain in the ass?

For me, I was on 6mg of buperenorphine daily. Every couple of weeks or so, I'd go out and score enough dope to keep me high for about a week. Typically, I'd stop taking my Suboxone anywhere from 12-24 hours before getting high, and yes, I would get high. If I only waited 12 hours, I wouldn't get as high but I would just compensate by shooting more. If I waited 24 hours, I wouldn't need much more than my normal amount. Again, this was when I was on 6mg of Suboxone. Someone on, say, 24mg is going to have a much harder time "shooting through it" so-to-speak.

The hardest part about using while on Suboxone is getting back on it when you're done using. Getting high while on it is pretty simple, but make no mistake you DO need to be in withdrawal before popping your subs otherwise that godawful precipitated w/d will kick in and that is hell on earth. The worst for me was when I waited a mere 12 hours before taking my sub, and man that whole day was a living hell for me. I generally had to wait a minimum of 17 hours if I wanted to avoid that from happening. Anyway, I'd usually make it easier on myself by going to bed right as the w/d kicked in, so I could sleep through a good 7 or 8 hours of it and by the time I woke up I could pop my subs.

What I'm trying to say is, if you want to get high while on Suboxone, you most certainly can. Suboxone can be a huge enabler for the addict still using, because they can easily (relatively speaking) switch from one to the other depending on their extenuating circumstances and avoid some of the more painful aspects of being a junky....the kind that usually end up driving most people towards sobriety.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe adamantly that for the addict intent on getting clean, Suboxone is a miracle drug. I just don't want people like the OP to naively think that their loved ones are automatically clean and well off just because they are "taking their pills".

I think that watching her take her dose is a good idea, it's about as much as you can do really. Ultimately though, I wouldn't waste my money on getting her Suboxone unless she really wants to finally stop using.

 

[icelated]

Zyggy,
Thank you for your last post. I want to have hope that someday she will be clean, and stay clean, and have a family and go to college, and be HAPPY without drugs. Your last post gave me HOPE


her last text before passing out was "I need to get out of here"
maybe, just maybe, she means it! she cant be happy without her family!

Thank you people that have posted, prayed and gave simpathy for me!
Corey

 

[junctionalfunkie]

Yes, people conquer addictions. Sadly, many others do not. Except for 1 relapse about 2 months ago, I have been clean from heroin and cocaine for 16 months.

It certainly is not easy. They aren't kidding when they say it is the hardest thing you will ever have to do. The thing is, the addict does not have to do it. I know many people who have resigned themselves to being junkies for the rest of their lives.

Your daughter has to want to quit, herself. This is not something the addict can do for another person or any external reason. All you can do is support, encourage, and show her love, even if/when she relapses. Actually, probably especially then.

For the record, I was helped immensely by this program, Rational Recovery:

http://rational.org/

I, myself, totally reject the disease model of addiction and the 12-step cults that endorse it. As RR teaches, using drugs is a conscious choice that anyone can learn to control, if they want to badly enough. But AA, NA, and other 12-step programs do work for some people.

One thing is certain: neither of these approaches will help your daughter until she is ready to improve her life and take responsibility for her actions and their consequences.

This reminds me so much of this thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=393538

I wonder what happened to simivalley13 and her son....

 

[edarrin]

[Don't call her work and tell them she is using. IF they don't know already I really wouldn't advise that. If she isn't in trouble with the law then stuff like letting strangers know she using is a bad idea. It can get her arrested or what not. I think at this point her getting arrested would do more damage than good/QUOTE]


Definitely. You don't want that on her record anywhere if possible. Especially if you are in the U.S. as they never give pardons/forgive past experiences no matter how long ago (at least to my knowledge...and I've had some, um, experience in this area..although I'm not a U.S. citizen). No point in making it a life long preblem more than necessary.

I personally have gotten clean before and it lasted 12 years. As you can probably guess it didn't last forever like I thought it would. I firmly believed I had my life on track and I would never be stupid enough to fall in that trap again. Just goes to show that it is life long.

I fell back in without even realizing it until it was too late. So much for outsmarting it.

As others have said, you can't need to, you have to want to. really want to. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. Now I have to do it again.

The worst is staying clean. The Post Acute Withdrawal (PAWS) lasts for about 6months-1year minimum. If she can make it past that it gets easier but as I am an example of, you can never let your gaurd down.

Tough love is what brought me around to realizing I didn't want to live that way anymore. Took a lot though. I was in jail a few times. Once for quite a while.

Hopefully she will come around. I am going to try it again. Now it will be even worse probably as I have a family, job etc now and can't just zone out for a year or so until I can sleep normally again.

See if you can get her to go to some NA meetings. Go with her if necessary(this would have to be to an open meeting as closed meetings are for addicts only). If she can find some people she can relate to and eventually trust who are living in recovery the odds of success are increased expodentially (sp?).

Good luck to you and everyone else struggling with addiction issues. Personally I think this current rise in opiate addiction is due to the pharmaceutical industry's greed and deceit .

That's another thing I should mention. This time I got into this through prescription medication for the most part. I have a script for Dilaudid and it is going to kill me if I don't do something soon. Worse than that is I have a daughter too and the thought of her going through some of the things I did makes me shudder with fear. I wake up at night in a panic thinking of this. We have great relationship now. The thought breaks my heart and if it does happen I know I will blame myself.

When I say good luck i really mean it. I wish I had something profound to say but I don't. I shoot dilaudid to feel normal. I don't even get high anymore no matter how much I do. I will just OD if I even bother trying anymore. Even heroin doesn't do it anymore. The euphoria is gone for good. maybe that's a good thing as it has enabled me to see it for what it really is.

 

[noone1]

SHE HAS TO HIT HER BOTTOM BEFORE SHE WILL REALLY WANT TO GET CLEAN.

Bullshit, some peoples bottom is death. Even AA has given up on the notion of a "bottom" I would say support her however you can without feeding her addiction. Some psychotherapy to get to the route of her heroin addiction will probably be involved.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

Bullshit, some peoples bottom is death. Even AA has given up on the notion of a "bottom" I would say support her however you can without feeding her addiction. Some psychotherapy to get to the route of her heroin addiction will probably be involved.

+1

That "rock bottom" nonsense was discredited years ago, even by the AA crowd with all their ridiculous dogma, slogans, and misplaced righteousness.

You get clean when you're ready. Or you don't get clean. Period.

icelated, I wish you and your daughter the best of luck. Have you looked into ibogaine therapy? Less drastic holistic measures might include acupuncture or hypnosis.

Suboxone is a great drug if used properly, but very few doctors prescribe it to be used properly ($). You actually likely need much less of a daily dose than you will be prescribed.

I kicked with a self-administered 21-day Suboxone taper. Staying on Suboxone longer than 3 weeks or so will make it much more difficult to eventually stop.

 

[Miss Hollywood]

Bullshit, some peoples bottom is death. Even AA has given up on the notion of a "bottom" I would say support her however you can without feeding her addiction. Some psychotherapy to get to the route of her heroin addiction will probably be involved.

No shit, I'm a heroin addict and I know. I said that in my post, that sometimes people don't make it out onto the other side. Believe me, I know...I'm tetering on the edge of a relapse right now after 4 months clean and now on probation with "random drug tests."

All the more makes me want to go on a fucking binge.

I've been so insane the past week with my thoughts, they have been so depressive and "kurt cobain-like" in nature. just feel like giving up.

Sometimes i want to make it out onto the other side, and then sometimes I wish this drug would just kill me already so I don't have to spend the rest of my life fighting a losing battle. I know that sounds horrible...but sometimes I can't help but think that. Despite me being on suboxone right now,i still have horrible cravings and depression. I feel like it will never end.

 

[ShroomBoom321]

Hey man sorry about your daughter being an addict.....sucks. My dads side of the family has a long history of alcoholics, (him being a former one for many years of my life) he hit rock bottom when he got a DUI. He then got divorced, losing most of his retirement money, moved out, and tons of other shit. I think that was his rock bottom....and he got into a treatment center and has been sober ever since.

She is going to have to hit a rock bottom and think about what she's doing with her life. But best of luck for you and daughter, maybe even show her bluelight site? anyways hang in there.....

 

[Frankie_Gee]

this feels like our phone conversations. wow, i see a different side to things.

I agree with the "words are cheap" comment, yes words can be very cheap. But sometimes the right words can get through to certain people, when said the right way of course.

 

[Frankie_Gee]

My daughter has been staying with friends until she can stay sober long enough to pass a drug test. well, i got a few text messages this morning.

she claims where she is now that she pretty much gets the heroin for free.
she said "idk what to do. where im at right now im pretty much getting everything for free. i have suboxone but everytime i plan on not using for a day so i can start it i end up just using" my reply "i dont know what to do" , " sounds like you dont want to quit!"
her reply " i really do. its just so hard its in front of my face for pretty free all day long" , " i have been doing better though. i went a couple of days to where i went all day and then did it at night and then some days i didnt even shoot up i just smoked" 8) To hear these words is like a dagger to the heart.

long story short i told her she could come here to sober up and pass a drug test, but i dont think she will stick around more than a couple of days. she said she would call me tomorrow, sounds like she was up all night using and is now going to bed and its 7:00 am

I dont know what to do anymore. I feel like everything we have ever done so far is pointless. I feel like now she is in a worse place than before. I feel like things just keep getting worse. I am losing hope for her. I am scared of losing her.
This is not how i want to spend the rest of my life. ( Depression from all of this, not caring about life anymore,anxiety, ANGRY, etc...)

No one ever seems to be angry over the dealers. I mean if they didnt do the things they do, things would be a whole heck of alot better dont ya think? If i was an addict and i really wanted to quit i would turn my dealer in so i would not know where to get it. Anyways, im just angry inside. I did not think this was the way things were going to end up for us.

corey

I can feel your pain and I understand what you are going through, the fact is its impossible for people to really understand a heroin addict unless they have ever been sick and felt that rush themselves, its just an overly powerful pure rush of pleasure that is virtually impossible for most people to quit. She can do it, but it has to be for herself and herself only. Once she has felt enough pain from it, then thats the first start, once she gets sick of being sick then thats where she will start realizing the errors of her ways. Just some advice, but I said a prayer for you and her and I just hope everything works out for the both of you.

 

[icelated]

Thank you everyone for all the great replies!
She texted me today and said she will be coming over afer work tomorrow. she plans on staying with me for a few days to get clean, and move back home with her mom. At this point i do not think she has really hit her bottom, so i think this will most likely be another failed attempt.?

We just had a huge heroin bust in the area close to my daughter. There was 10 people busted and one of the guys was a mexican. she didnt know him and said her dealer gets it from mexicans and those mexicas get it in mexico from source! Anyways, I am just sick n tired of all of this.

junctionalfunkie, pointed out this thread - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=393538

and it just broke my heart! what she went through is my biggest fear for my daughter.

The point where i am at right now i feel like giving up. I feel like ignoring all her calls and pretending i dont have a kid anymore. I just dont know anymore.
My daughter is the most important thing in my life. I have always been there for her and gave her anything she has ever wanted. I feel like without her life is not really worth living. I am too scared to end my life, but i wish i wasnt!

 

[Kebil]

I know my dad felt the way you do know, from the sounds of it. He told me once, after I had cleaned up, that at one point he considered whether to disown me or not. I am not sure exactly what he meant by disown, it certainly was nothing about any inheritance money, I grew up poor, but for him to have considered disowning me, that kind of hit home when I found out about that.

I have been on methadone maintenance for a year and a half now, and it has taken this long for me to really come to grips with the whole idea of sobriety. The things that saved me life was knowing that if I ever did clean myself up, that I knew my family would take me back. At the end of using, I felt so low and down on myself, I would not have had the strength to get back on my feet by myself. But one day, I called my dad and asked if I could move back home, move back across the country and after 12 years of living on my own, I moved back home.

Maybe everybody does have to hit bottom, I don't know if that is always true, and everybody has a different bottom. I think it often depends on what it is that a person began using drugs to get away from. I believe that usually people that develop a substance abuse problem do so because they are trying to alleviate some hurt, or get away from some reality, and mood altering drugs work.

But that is just how I am beginning to see things. Don't give up on your daughter, but at the same time you need to let her make her own mistakes. You can't force somebody to stay sober (although you may be able to force them to detox, temporarily), and unless they want to stay sober, they won't stay sober. Sometimes you have to let people fail on their own terms I guess

 

[icelated]

I went and picked my daughter up this morning from her friends. She told me she didnt want to be there anymore and that she is tired of using and tired of waking up feeling like shit. I told her that i would let her come to my house for a few days to get clean and so she can pass a drug test and move back in with her mom.

Well, last night i told her do not waist my time and if your not going to put 100% into this do not come over and do not bring anything with you.

When i picked her up she had told me she used a little bit when she woke up!
I asked her why did she do that if she is planning on quitting and she said " because there was some left" she did not look high to me. However, she did bring 7 suboxone with her so she can suposedly quit!

Anyways, earlier today i took her to work and when i came home i looked through her stuff to make sure she is sincere. I know it was not a good thing to do, but i do not want that shit in my house and i want to make sure she is serious.
On the bottom of her bag i found 3 needles and a heavily used spoon. I did not find any heroin, but that dont mean she didnt have any his somewhere else. One of the last times she was here i found needles and she used the excuse " I did not remember i had it in there" or something like that.

I do not know what to do, because if i confront her tonight about it she will just get very angry and say "I didnt know they were in there" and threaten to leave, and it could be very bad if she really wants help! So, i think it would be better to just not say anything? and see if she says anything to me. and if she does say something i can say you did know they were there and you brought them intentionally. However i cannot see how she could not know they were there!!!!!!

I do know she can get more needles before i pick her up from work and use one of my spoons.

Do you think she brought them just incase she might break down? Or is her intentions are to try to trick me into thinking she has stopped?

She really wanted to get out of where she was. She told me they were treating her like crap and she had to get out of there.

I thought she was sincere about doing this, I never pressured her into coming over and quitting. What i did do was give her the chance to back out and only do this if she is really ready to do so. Therefore, at this point i feel like she really wanted to get out of where she was, but was not really ready to stop using. I do not know..

What are your thoughts on this situation? should i not say anything and see what transpires over th next 4 days?

How long does heroin stay in her system? she has been using heavily for a month since she quit for month. I think she uses a half gram a day and she is only 120 lbs
I need to know so i can drug test her. is it 3-7 days?

Corey

 

[jigsawpuzzlepiece]

Glad to hear she is back under your roof at least you can make sure she is safe now.

It is POSSIBLE that she forgot she had those needles in her purse, but it is very unlikely. ANd addicts lie all the time... there can be any number of reasons why she brought them with her that don't involve her trying to use behind her back.

It sounds like she wants to get help which is a good first step, but don't expect her to never use again because that is an unreasonable expectation at this point. The fact that she is communicating with you that she wants to get better is great though so don't push her too hard.

If she really does kick, she is going to be a physical and emotional mess for the next 3-4 days so do your best to leave her be. As far as testing for dope, it only stays in your system like ~36 hours or so I think so you would be able to test if she has used in the past couple of days.

Good luck! IT sounds like things are beginning to shape up though. Just remember you are going to need a lot of patience, and she might say a lto of things over the next few days of detox that she doesn't mean. And if she does relapse, don't abandon her or push her away! Just tell her you are there for her and to get back on the horse and give it another shot.

 

[a100unitSHOT]

SHE HAS TO HIT HER BOTTOM BEFORE SHE WILL REALLY WANT TO GET CLEAN.

I agree. I have been an opiate addict for a long time. It wasn't until I got arrested for the umpteenth time before I new I needed to get help. BUT - I wouldn't be trying to quit if I didn't have my parents help/support.... I will admit.... Even though I am trying to get help, I'm still relapsing here and there.... It's the hardest thing I have ever done. It's like a person said on intervention... (after the host telling her she has to choose either treatment ord losing her families support) , "That's like me telling you, doc, that you have to divorce your wife, right here, right now, no questions asked. You're telling me to give up my love.... what makes me happy." Honestly, if you have never done heroin, it's nearly impossible to understand... But the metaphor is a good one. A lot of people stay in relationships they know are bad, but are addicted to the person. It can cost them their money, their friends, and can make them make bad decisions. And they won't leave until something in them clicks. I know it's completely different.... I'm just saying it's the only thing most people can relate to.j

Anyway... I haven't been very helpful, but it's hard to explain. But you are doing the right thing. Just be there for her, no matter what she does. Eventually, it will be all she has. That's the day it will matter most. When she does hit bottom (and there's no telling when that will be), she'll need SOMETHING. The people who don't have the support on that day are the people who will NEVER get clean. That's just my opinion though. Maybe someone will back me though???? Maybe that's just me.

Anyway (again... sorry), best of luck to you, your family and daughter. I would never wish this addiction on anyone. And no matter what anyone tells you... Heroin usage is never under control.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

....Anyways, earlier today i took her to work and when i came home i looked through her stuff to make sure she is sincere. I know it was not a good thing to do, but i do not want that shit in my house and i want to make sure she is serious.
On the bottom of her bag i found 3 needles and a heavily used spoon. I did not find any heroin, but that dont mean she didnt have any his somewhere else. One of the last times she was here i found needles and she used the excuse " I did not remember i had it in there" or something like that.

I do not know what to do, because if i confront her tonight about it she will just get very angry and say "I didnt know they were in there" and threaten to leave, and it could be very bad if she really wants help! So, i think it would be better to just not say anything? and see if she says anything to me. and if she does say something i can say you did know they were there and you brought them intentionally. However i cannot see how she could not know they were there!!!!!!

I do know she can get more needles before i pick her up from work and use one of my spoons.

Do you think she brought them just incase she might break down? Or is her intentions are to try to trick me into thinking she has stopped?

She really wanted to get out of where she was. She told me they were treating her like crap and she had to get out of there.

I thought she was sincere about doing this, I never pressured her into coming over and quitting. What i did do was give her the chance to back out and only do this if she is really ready to do so. Therefore, at this point i feel like she really wanted to get out of where she was, but was not really ready to stop using. I do not know..

What are your thoughts on this situation? should i not say anything and see what transpires over th next 4 days?

How long does heroin stay in her system? she has been using heavily for a month since she quit for month. I think she uses a half gram a day and she is only 120 lbs
I need to know so i can drug test her. is it 3-7 days?

Corey

Corey, there is a universal rule to addiction: Addicts lie. They lie to others and they lie to themselves. It was not wrong of you to go through her things, in fact, you probably should have done that before she first crossed the threshold of your home after you offered her sanctuary, and should search her every time she comes over from now on.

Tough situations call for tough measures. Be tough.

And yes, she should pass a drug test after 3-5 days clean, though this of course will vary with metabolism, etc.

Good luck.

 

[noone1]

No shit, I'm a heroin addict and I know. I said that in my post, that sometimes people don't make it out onto the other side. Believe me, I know...I'm tetering on the edge of a relapse right now after 4 months clean and now on probation with "random drug tests."

All the more makes me want to go on a fucking binge.

I've been so insane the past week with my thoughts, they have been so depressive and "kurt cobain-like" in nature. just feel like giving up.

Sometimes i want to make it out onto the other side, and then sometimes I wish this drug would just kill me already so I don't have to spend the rest of my life fighting a losing battle. I know that sounds horrible...but sometimes I can't help but think that. Despite me being on suboxone right now,i still have horrible cravings and depression. I feel like it will never end.

Oops that probably came of snarkier than I intended my comment to be, I forget when i'm posting on the dark side. I just meant people shouldn't use phrases like "when I hit rock bottom" or "realising you have a problem is the first step" to delude themselves into thinking they are going to be on the path to recovery sometime in the future while still using. If someone wants to abuse drugs they should go right ahead but they shouldn't justify it with bullshit.

 

[SHAM 21]

i,ve been using for bout 7 years now herion been my drug of choice been on 80ml's of methdome try'd the subtex programe countless rehabs but no joy. By accident i came accross this wonder treatment for herion addict's called naltrextone implants i've got over 6 months clean with them i'm on my second implant now its a 5 year proggrame with 8 implants in all i've been told that after 5 years i won't even think bout the junk please god so icelater u should suggest this to ur daughter i know how addiction breaks up homes and familys. I don't look back on my past with shame but i look at it as a experience that not everyone has the chance to experience life has to be lived