Quesions for heroin addicts

[bagochina]

icelated-

I just read the posts you made and I wont pretend to know your situation and I mean no disrespect. Just from the little information you provided it seems to me as if you daughter is semi well established in using dope. IV use most often starts after smoking/snorting has run its course and making that step for some people can be pretty big. When I was 20 yrs old, nobody could tell me a thing about anything and I did what I wanted. When I was pushed about using heroin, nothing positive ever came out of it. Speaking for myself 'tough-love' would have been a sure death sentence.

First thing I would look at is what could be the reasons behind her use? Divorce? Does she feel peer pressure? Does she feel something is lacking from her life? Is it an escape? Does she just like to use it, I would hedge my bets that 'her' answer would be the last one. All of those answers relate back to one simple thing, how she is feeling. My advice on this matter would get her into some sort of counceling/therapy/family therapy, etc. on the condition that she is not forced to go. Some how try to get past the heroin issue and bring the problem back home to the underlaying causes. Its hard to get a 20 yr old interested in some thing she might not understand, I have no experience with children and wont pretend like I do.

Once you and her 'possibly' find out why she is using, you can 'work' on trying to remedy the issue. You already have a few of your ducks lines up because you daughter is perusing actions to help her to get & stay clean, very positive right there. The only person that is going to change her actions and get clean is herself there is absolutely no way that you or anyone else can force getting clean on a person. You can suggest but ultimately it is her that makes the decision. Making that choice is a HUGE step and it doesnt always work in the fashion that you envision it but it will eventually work.

Changing... 'People, Places, and Things' is a massive order but it is the backbone of a good recovery. Being 20 yrs. old has many external pushes that make one want to use, number one being friends. You can talk to her about things, people, places that make her want to use

In my opinion is that you can not come down like an iron fist you have to be able to have open communication with her and for the both of you to be comfortable. Establishing this type of relationship greatly improves the chances. I dont know anything about you or her life and I am just kind of rambling. Suboxone is a very very good opiate replacement therapy and it can sometimes take quite a long time for a person to become stabilized on it to the point of not even wanting to use heroin or thinking about it, at that point it is time to slowly get off. At this time it is hoped that she will have changed persons, places, and things that 'triggered' her to pick up the drug in the first place. Hopefully she will realized why she used and taken steps to work on that.

I am a recovering heroin addict with over a decade and a half of IV heroin use. I have been thru countless rehabs, I have been on methadone, I have been thru the jails, I have been thru 'institutions', I have tried every last half-baked remedy to kick heroin, I have been on Suboxone maintenence, I have tried geographical cures, i.e. moving, I have had a couple of dozen friends pass on thru the years, I have had countless friends end up doing long jail terms, I have been there and done it and the only thing is that SHE makes the decision to stop using heroin and when the time will be when she is ready to make that decision. I will say that Suboxone most likely gave me the possibility to stop using heroin in a semi-comfortable fashion and be in the mind set to examine why I couldnt stop using heroin.

It is a very rough road to walk down and make one examine one's life in a introspective manner that many people simple dont have a clue about. I have been clean from heroin for 4 years come Mothers Day and I have been on Suboxone for the last 8 years. I have graduated from college and returned to finish up a 2nd degree [still not done yet], I first used heroin for the first time at the age of 14-15'ish. I have kicked a 8 year benzodiazapine/tranquilizer habit, I have finally come to terms with the detrimental effected continued use of ANY drugs will have on my life.

My life is just now starting and the gates are wide open and I can only go up from here.

I am 32 years of age.

Peace,
Seedless

Hope I didnt ramble on to much

 

[Miss Hollywood]

^^Amazing post man! Glad to see you have been finally been able to get clean and stay clean!It's a bitch man! I'm goin through it, only 4 months sober(suboxone) and I'm struggling!

But everything you said about quitting and it being all about what the user wants/feels is true.I mean, I'm not saying her fathers feelings don't matter because they certainly do.But I think what you were kinda saying is that for him not to "run with his feelings of the hurt,confused,angry,powerless disiplinarian" and just let her work out her own feelings.But it is important for him to be there for her, and not just through detox but through the whole "process" because it is indeed a process...and a LIFE LONG one,at that.

I remember the day I hit my bottom and wanted to try to get clean.I just thought "hm, well i'll get clean off the drugs and then everything else will fall into place and i'll be happy again."

HAHAHAHAHHA...oh no no no! it doesn't work that way! us addicts just like to think everything will be ok as soon as were done with the drugs don't we? we dont realize all the other changes we must make to maintain our sobriety,and sometimes those things are harder to deal with than anything. Ditching friends you've known forever,places you used to party and use,and trying to do different things instead of the things you are used to doing(partying,living in the fast lane)kind of thing.

I try to explain this to my mother(who has lived a very boring life,never did a drug in her life not even weed)like this...

"Imagine spending 16 years of your life going 100 mph.Just ZOOMING..head on..constantly...ALL THE TIME. And then all the sudden you just SLAM on the break. SCCHRREEECCHH!! And everything comes to a hault, and you look around...scared and teriffied with the unfamiliar speed,your surroundings...you begin to wonder "where am i? how do I get this car to go fast again?" That is what it is like trying to get sober. You are so used to living your LIFE a certain way, that you don't know any other way to live. At least thats how it was for me. I didn't have any "normalcy" in my life at all. I was a prostitute(i did not have the 9-5 job),i did what I wanted when I wanted(which was a huge factor in my trying heroin)

I remember when I first started doing heroin. I made a decision to "give myself a habit...just so I had something to do while I sat around my apartment waiting for my next john to come over."

If I could turn back time, I would have made completely different decisions.

Point is, the father just needs to be in her corner and don't harp on her for little things,just like you said. Those are the things that drive us addicts right back to what we were doing.

 

[Hendrix Haze15]

I hope you don't mind me asking you this miss hollywood, but did you start prostituting yourself in order to support your heroin habit or did you just not want to ever work a normal job and even before you started doing dope were you doing tricks? Just curious, because I know a few people who got so strung out on heroin and coke that they ended up hooking in order to pay for their habit. Just wondering if that is what happened in your case.

 

[Miss Hollywood]

Oops that probably came of snarkier than I intended my comment to be, I forget when i'm posting on the dark side. I just meant people shouldn't use phrases like "when I hit rock bottom" or "realising you have a problem is the first step" to delude themselves into thinking they are going to be on the path to recovery sometime in the future while still using. If someone wants to abuse drugs they should go right ahead but they shouldn't justify it with bullshit.

No worries man All is forgiven. I know some people dont like those phrases but they definately applied to my situation, but everybody is different. Everybody has a different reason why they had that moment they decided enough was enough.

 

[Miss Hollywood]

I hope you don't mind me asking you this miss hollywood, but did you start prostituting yourself in order to support your heroin habit or did you just not want to ever work a normal job and even before you started doing dope were you doing tricks? Just curious, because I know a few people who got so strung out on heroin and coke that they ended up hooking in order to pay for their habit. Just wondering if that is what happened in your case.

No, I don't mind at all.

I actually started prostituting when my parents kicked me out of their house almost 3 years ago. I started doing it just so I could afford a place to live and to pay my bills, but after a 1 1/2 years of doing it, it finally started to effect my mind,body and soul. My cocaine use and alcohol increased...so much to the point that I was a bottomless pit when it came to both. I could just keep drinking and drinking and sniffing and sniffing.

Everybody at the club I went to,knew if they wanted drugs to come to me because I knew all the coke dealers there. Well one night two girls approached me and asked if I could get them coke and if I could, they would give me a bag of heroin. I said ok, I got them their coke and they handed me a bag of heroin. I sniffed it, and i imediately liked it. I always had after parties at my apartment, so I invited them back. They had bundles and bundles of dope on them and many clean needles. While my roommate entertained the rest of the guests in my living room, we all squeezed into my tiny bathroom and they cooked me up a shot. I did it....and it was love at first hit.

Soon after a friend of mine started dating a dope boy, and they lived right across the street. I was over there everyday, and at that point all of us were shooting everything and anything. The dealer was feeding me dope (now i realize he was purposefully trying to get me hooked)and it worked. I had a car at the time, so I would take him to the part of town where dope is everywhere so he could re-up and for my shoffuer service he would hook me up with a few free bags. I was introduced to all the dope boys and the bosses. And before I knew it, I wasn't even dealing with his "middle man" ass anymore, and I was going directly to the bosses to get my dope(and they had better shit than he did).

So i was working my way up the ladder with my habit, and since i had a "sugar-daddy" that paid all my rent and bills all the money I made was "play money". So i spent all my money on heroin freely, until my habit increased to the point where I couldnt spend extended amounts of time with my sugar daddy because of my need to go score when i ran out. He didn't know what was going on, and he got really pissed and told me I was cut off. So at that point, when I was at the worst in my addiction, not only did I have a $300 habit a day, but now I was forced to start paying my own rent...and fighting with my piece of shit tranny roommate for his/her half(which they never gave me, and they just ditched me and moved out).While the tranny lived with me she critizised me for my heroin use and threatened to move out while she also had a habit, just not as intense as mine. We are still not friends to this day and we never will be. I hate that he/she/it with a PASSSION.

Anyways, the answer is no i didn't start selling my body for heroin but at the end of everything i was definately selling my body just for heroin.

 

[Hendrix Haze15]

Ohh ok, thanks for answering that miss hollywood. I was just curious because I know some people (2 girls, 1 guy), who started hooking to pay for their dope, and they absolutely hate it and if it were not for the heroin, they would not be out there doing what they do. I also, however knew this girl who worked for an escort agency who was not on drugs and was not prostituting as a last resort to pay for anything. She was just a nympho and loved having sex and decided to make a living out of it. I was just curious as to which group you fell into. Anyways, stay strong and fuck selling your body. You know your better than that

 

[Miss Hollywood]

Ohh ok, thanks for answering that miss hollywood. I was just curious because I know some people (2 girls, 1 guy), who started hooking to pay for their dope, and they absolutely hate it and if it were not for the heroin, they would not be out there doing what they do. I also, however knew this girl who worked for an escort agency who was not on drugs and was not prostituting as a last resort to pay for anything. She was just a nympho and loved having sex and decided to make a living out of it. I was just curious as to which group you fell into. Anyways, stay strong and fuck selling your body. You know your better than that

thanks mate

Yeah, most do it to support a drug habit or to be able to take care of their children. I don't have any kids, but if I did I could tell you right now with the way the economy is(especially with where I live, we've been hit really hard with job loss here in Ohio)I would still be doing it. Hell, if it wasn't for the fact that I got busted doing it(it was a sting operation at a hotel)I would still be doing it. I'm on probation for a year because of it,plus I knew that if I was going to get clean and STAY clean there was no way I could do it while still escorting. The actual act of doing it and the money is a HUGE trigger for me.Not to mention I live back at my parents house since getting sober, so without an apartment or a car, I can no longer escort even if I wanted to.

Although, I still do talk to my sugar daddy and he does help me out with money occasionally as well as pay my cell phone bill every month. And no I DO NOT have to sleep with him for it. We have just been friends for so long and have been through so much together that he genuinely cares about me as a person, and has been very helpful in keeping me sober. He used to give me money without question back in my active addiction, but since I've gotten sober he won't just hand over a large amount of money to me. He'll help me out here and there with small amounts, but nothing huge like before.

But thats the thing about escorting...the lifestyle,the large amounts of fast money,and the drugs that come with it wind up destroying you in the end. Heroin was my way of numbing myself to be able to tolerate some nasty jerk as old as my grandfather on top of me...and then shooting even more dope afterwards to forget about it. It was a neverending vicious cycle and I was DYING to get out. But now that I'm out, I will say I miss THE MONEY but, I definately dont miss having sex with creep ass old men for money.

They would be all like "Oh, I wanna get YOU off too!" and I would roll my eyes and be like "If you worked at McDonalds, would you want to go home and EAT MCDONALDS?!" and they'd do "uh, probally not..."and I would say "EXACTLY! THIS IS MY JOB! I KNOW ITS HARD FOR YOU TO BELIEVE, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SEX FOR A LIVING IT ISN"T FUN ANYMORE!SO COULD YOU PLEASE JUST BUST YOUR STUPID NUT ALREADY SO I CAN GO GET SOME FUCKING SMACK!" as I'm holding back the vomit in my throat from my dope sickness. Imagine somebody poking and proding you while your dope sick. It was a fucking NITEMARE.

At the end I was doing bundles and bundles a day. I remember the weekend before I got on suboxone I did a little over 2 grams in 3 hours.

 

[Blennz]

AN addict doesn't need to hit rock bottom. They need to find more joy in not using than using or else why would you ever want to quit? Therefore the drug must take something from you to completely want to stop, such as friendships, health etc. If you love something a little to much then its going to be harder to not want to do it and the more you do it the more you will crave it. The deeper into this cycle you get (and you will if you do it to often as its gradual) the more you will need to lose to kick your addiction. Some people have this under control and can be occasional users, others however have these craving that more often and stronger in a shorter time space than they should healthily. Those kind of personalities are most in trouble.

But icelated, are you aware of how often she uses? Perhaps she uses occasionally and has not got what she wants out of it and therefore is not ready to quit as it is very addictive. Your best option in my opinion. Would be to let her ride it out and show her your support. Get her to open up to you. It will be hard but eventually your relationship will build up again and you will trust each other more. If she begins to trust you more rather than seeing you as the evil enemy who wants her to stop using when she can't it'l cause her to despise you more. If you care for her you will offer her all you can in terms of love and support and she will be more likely to come around. She may feel guilty seeing your love for her and that you care and that in itself will help her steer away from the direction she MAY be heading (as im not aware of the full situation.)

i hope all goes well with you and her

 

[Captain.Heroin]

BUT...the reality of OPIATE addiction(which is really the king of all addictions)is that it has the highest relapse rate and many more people stay on/go back to heroin than actually stay clean. It's the truth. And the odds of staying clean are slim.

Nicotine and alcohol have higher relapse rates, but not by much.

At the 9 month mark, the relapse rate for heroin is somewhere around 75%, but don't quote me on that.

I've been sober from heroin for 6 months now, I don't feel any need to return to using. It's hard to explain why I decided to quit using, and for good.

What I can tell you is that people quit for themselves, not because you tried to get them to. Everyone chooses their own paths in life.

 

[bow-viper1]

I've been sober from heroin for 6 months now, I don't feel any need to return to using. It's hard to explain why I decided to quit using, and for good.

What I can tell you is that people quit for themselves, not because you tried to get them to. Everyone chooses their own paths in life.

Good for you, that is a huge accomplishment. I can tell you that the biggest challenge to you is a friend or dealer or someone calling you out of the blue and telling you they have some. That is how I have always relapsed after several months of sobriety.

If you think that is a possibility, change your number or do whatever you have to do to make sure those kind of people can't reach you.

 

[belfort]

blennz-have you ever been addicted to heroin??i assume you havent as you dont seem to know what you are talking about..a heroin addict finds one joy and one joy only, in shooting or snorting heroin..thats the only thing that does the trick...everything else is secondary....thats the problem with drugs, they hit the reward centers more effectively than anything else so its going to be very hard to find something as enjoyable/rewarding as doing drugs....the thing an addict must do(what i did) is come to the realization that he/she cannot keep living this lifestyle...what helped me realize this is the fact i thought i was killing myself by being dopesick all the time..i just couldnt continue to do it, it was hellish being without dope so i went on methadone, got off that and here i am...

 

[icelated]

UPDATE:

my daughter confronted me about me finding and getting rid of the needles. She told me she didnt have any heroin with her. she also told me the reason why she brought them was the guy she lived with smoked the heroin and she didnt want to leave them there. Whatever doesnt really matter now. Anyways, she said that could make a person relapse. Today is her 4th day clean using suboxone. she is doing really good.


She got hooked on heroin because of her boyfriend. thank god they are not together anymore because he is still an addict, and she would not be where she is at now.

After a year of trying to get her to go to treatment, and quit heroin, hounding her everyday, i let her be. I think this was the right thing to do....

A month ago she got out of treatment and i guess she was planning on using when she got out. Also, she broke up with her boyfriend before she went in.
Well, she got out of treatment and went back to her boyfriend. She was back into using everyday. After a week they both went into detox together and he talked her into leaving after 2 days and when they checked themselves out he got a ride for himself and left her there by herself with nothing. That was the last time she saw him.

After that, she relapsed and went to stay with her dealer. During that 3 weeks we only texted eachother seldomly. She used everyday injecting heroin.
letting her be i think is what brought her around. She called me up and said she wanted to get clean, so here we are now.

this is her 4th day clean I know 4 days is not long, but i think she will do it this time. She has friends from treatment and they are all supporting eachother in sobriety. she told me they would call her and tell her they were going to use and she felt like a hyprocrite because she was high.

she will be going home tomorrow to pass a test and move in with her mom. This will be the big test for her, but she knows she has to pass a test every few days and she told me she cant afford to use again.

She has really opend up to me about alot of things we have never been able to talk about before.

I do think the reason why she uses is because it makes her feel good and when she is not using she is depressed n stuff.
However, she knows that wont last forever and she is young she is only 19 for one more month. I will keep you guys posted.
bye for now.

 

[grayplanet]

All these members have given you priceless advice so there isnt really much to add but I will just say this as a reminder. It is really hard for a non heroin user to relate to us. I have been clean for 2+ years but i remember those days as if they were yesterday. It takes the place of having to live life. We wake up and spend the entire day in a battle to get our score. When we get it we are in heaven. when we are without it we are in hell. What i really want to say is this. You must try to relate to your daughter in that she is using a drug that makes her feel extremely good. its a warmth and comfort like nothing else ive ever experienced. she is fighting an uphill battle and you must try to be patient. if she slips up try not to hold it against her. fight the battle with her and try to understand that she is not using heroin to disappoint and hurt you. i put my family through hell. they enabled me without realizing it. as others have said you become a professional liar. we heroin addicts are so good at lying. I cant even describe in words how good us heroin addicts are at lying. its an art : )

try not to put too much pressure on your beautiful daughter. you love her and want to help her but try not to smother her. Youre a good man and im glad you found bluelight. these guys here are amazing people that have so much to offer someone such as yourself. hang in there and give your daughter a hug for me. what she is going through right now is unimaginable unless youve been there yourself. all the best.

sean

 

[Blennz]

They need to find more joy in not using than using or else why would you ever want to quit? Therefore the drug must take something from you to completely want to stop, such as friendships, health etc.

You didn't read properly. Im saying you must lose something to even have the ability to want to quit

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ How about losing self-respect?

 

[edarrin]

^ Whatever it takes

In my opinion is that you can not come down like an iron fist you have to be able to have open communication with her and for the both of you to be comfortable

That is you. Everyone is different. The concept that is repeatedly being stated here is that you have to WANT to quit. Really, really want to quit. It is the hardest thing to do.

I think that is the concept implied by 'hitting bottom'. There must be a reason to quit. For me it was tough love. Getting bailed out of every situation just made me rely on getting bailed out of whatever situation I got myself into.

I had to experience the consequences of my actions. Sorry to say this, as I know you mean well , but it sounds like you are doing the same thing as my parents did for years. In addiction jargon this is called enabling. Meaning you are enabling her to keep using because you help her out of the consequences.

Oh, and as mentioned, you cannot trust a junky. They will do or say anything to anyone to get high.

Also you are going to have to learn about PAWS. Quitting is actually the easiest part. Staying quit is MUCH harder. Once she gets to that point open communication will be benficial and possible. Until she stops and stabilizes you will not be able to trust her. Make her earn the trust. Sounds like she is just playing you right now. If it was easy then everyone would just stop when they wanted. That doesn't seem to be happening does it?

 

[Z Y G G Y]

I wonder what happened to simivalley13 and her son....

OMG, sorry to derail the thread but that is so weird that u brought up this thread. It was the first thread I read on BL. I signed up shortly after (I had a new username before this one which I didn't like so I got a new one and lost almost 1000 posts ). It was the time when I was looking for help with my addiction. I pretty much have been clean since Sept 2008. I used twice, 2 days in a row since Sept 08 which really isn't bad considering I was spending like $100 a day on dope before that.