Pure psilocybin vs. shrooms

[Neo1]

Has anyone had the opportunity of sampling both shrooms and pure psilocybin extracted from shrooms?

I'd like to know if the trip differs in any way.

Ta,
Neo

 

[heliospan]

It probably does differ. Pure psilocybin probably hits you sooner. Also, psilobybin isn't the only psychoactive chemical in mushrooms.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Yeah, someone needs to get his hands on some psilocin and psilocybin and do some experiments with it.

 

[subdefy]

its one of the easiest extraction to get psilocin isolated out of mushrooms itself.

 

[-=ReD-hAzE=-]

^^^ Ok then, what does it entail(sp?)?

As simple as using some good ol' 190 proof Everclear?

 

[subdefy]

this wasn't the exact link I was looking for as the site I was getting it from seems to be down but this seems to work and is relatively simple.

http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Extraction/extract5.html

I sure hope I can post this, I read the guidelines I don't think its infringing on them.

this is a crude extract

 

[Grignard]

Well unless you have access to a large supply of mushrooms (i.e. at least 10-20 grams, preferably closer to 50 or more), which I know some of the growers most likely would, it's not going to be that feasible to extract out the tryptamines.

However if someone does have an adequate supply and access to the proper solvents and equipment, I hope that they have an accurate balance as well.

 

[ToxicFerret]

Well extracting from shrooms brings ll the other alkaloids out too. To get pure psilocybin youd need to synthesize it from other materials.

 

[Neo1]

This is the UK and fresh shrooms are 100% legal here )... and aren't too expensive, so theoretically, extraction is feasable.

I believe methanol is the best sovent.

I'm just interested in finding out how much the other constituents of shrooms affect the trip.

[Mod's note: edited for content]

 

[Keret]

Maria Sabina said that the mushrooms and the pills of synthetic psilocybin produced by Sandoz were absolutely identical in effect. See dr Hoffmann's book on lsd for more details.

 

[shulginist]

Well extracting from shrooms brings ll the other alkaloids out too. To get pure psilocybin youd need to synthesize it from other materials.

^^^ exactly.

You people are dumb. If you extract, you bring out all extractable alkaloids. That is, all the other psychoactives within the 'shrooms that synergize to form the entire trip. There is more in magic mushrooms than just psilo[cybin,cin].

So, you will not have _pure_ psilo[cybin,cin] unless you synthesize it or have the equipment to isolate the alkaloid after/during extraction (which you don't).

 

[shulginist]

Maria Sabina said that the mushrooms and the pills of synthetic psilocybin produced by Sandoz were absolutely identical in effect. See dr Hoffmann's book on lsd for more details.

I don't believe this one bit. Even different strains of psychedelic mushrooms have varying trips for me. It may not be the difference in experience like LSD to mescaline, but there is noticeable differences. The chemicals present within each and every mushroom comprise the trip, and there are different levels of these compounds in each strain. So, I seriously doubt _pure_ psilocybin will h ave near-indentical effects as ingested mushrooms. However, I'm sure they will be reasonably close and offer the typical tryptamineness.

 

[Keret]

The chemicals present within each and every mushroom comprise the trip, and there are different levels of these compounds in each strain.

This is purely speculative and has never been proven (i'm not saying it's not possible, just that so far there hasn't been any evidence for that).

As for the difference between the different species or even genus of shrooms, while they could be related to different chemicals in different ratios, they could also be traced back to the belief of the user that different mushrroms willhave different effects. Some on the ground metaprogramming at work hehe !

Last but not least, when it comes to mushrooms, 'im still of the opinion that Maria Sabina is/was more authoritative than any BLighter, especially since that on top of her wide ranging expertise in mushrooms she got to try pharmaceutical grade psilocybin unlike anyone of us here.

 

[S1ngularity]

I do not think that extractions are generally a good idea. I think that extractions bring things out of balance. Also it is easy to make mistakes, and end up with less chemical than you had to begin with. Psilocybin is prohibited in the United States Controled Substances Act. Pure psilocybin is clearly illegal, which psilocybic mushrooms is questionable. Also lab equiptment isn't good to have laying around.

 

[Neo1]

Thanks for your input, friends. Most informative

Shulginist, your point about other alkaloids is an obvious one I overlooked. I should have said *extracted* psilocybin, not *pure* psilocybin.

Keret, you also make a valid point I reckon...

As for the difference between the different species or even genus of shrooms, while they could be related to different chemicals in different ratios, they could also be traced back to the belief of the user that different mushrroms willhave different effects. Some on the ground metaprogramming at work hehe !

Sometimes we forget that the mind is far more powerful than we allow for, and not only that..... the metabolic milieu at the time of ingestion probably plays a part too.... how much of this enzyme or that enzyme is floating about in the body, etc.

S1ngularity, I would agree with your point about extraction causing imbalance if we were talking about simple wholefoods but I tend towards the view that psychedelic experiences are caused only partly by the material ingested and partly by some other non-physical mechanisms within the user, so the plant matrix that encases the psychedelic molecules is of less importance than the matrix that encases simple nutrients.

I just wondered if there were any glaringly obvious differences in effects, but so far it appears not.

Peace,
Neo

 

[S1ngularity]

I do not draw boundries between food and (plant) drugs. I think I heard Terence Mckenna say something about early languages using the same word for food and medicine.

Nature is beyond our capability to imagine or comprehend. I think that extracting pure psilocybin is the same thing as taking vitamin pills instead of eating real food. Terence Mckenna has said that extractions lose the drug's connection with the Earth.

A good example of why extracts are different from eating the whole plant is DMT. Ayahuasca will take you to the Amazon, the origion of the plants. Pure DMT will take you somewhere else. I doubt it is a coinsidence that the presence of a MAOI just happens to change the trip to the same place the plants origionated from.

You mentioned that it appears there is no difference between ingesting pure psilocybin vs. mushrooms. No one in this thread mentioned that they have tried pure psilocybin. I do not think that conclusion can be made yet.

 

[J2012B]

^^ what about synthetic DMT and MAOI ?

 

[poisoned candy]

As for the difference between the different species or even genus of shrooms, while they could be related to different chemicals in different ratios, they could also be traced back to the belief of the user that different mushrroms willhave different effects. Some on the ground metaprogramming at work hehe !

Good point.

Say I try liberty caps for the first time and, for whatever reason, have a bad trip. If I beleive that the type of mushroom influences the trip, then all my subsequent experiences with liberty caps will likely be colored by the first experience, and will be more likely to also be bad trips (since this is my unconscious expectation). So, the result will be I'll think thats theres some alkaloid in the liberty caps that are causing the bad trips!

 

[deviate]

i don't see why it's so hard to believe different strains produce slightly different trips. it's certainly true with marijuana.

 

[Neo1]

I do not draw boundries between food and (plant) drugs. I think I heard Terence Mckenna say something about early languages using the same word for food and medicine.

Nature is beyond our capability to imagine or comprehend. I think that extracting pure psilocybin is the same thing as taking vitamin pills instead of eating real food. Terence Mckenna has said that extractions lose the drug's connection with the Earth.

I don't draw boundaries between "natural" and "synthetic" .

Some vitamin pills work, and some don't. Some are more effective as extracts and some are less effective.

I love plants and I love synthetics. I love the Earth, but I see no reason to be bound to it every minute of the day for all eternity.

Man is a product and part of nature. Therefore anything produced from the labour of man's mind (extraction techniques, for instance) is a product of nature.

Sometimes it's good, sometime's it isn't.