Public vs Private Schools

[anna!]

Alright, I can finish my post now.

I went to independent (not-denominational) private schools for 14 years, from kindergarten until I finished Year 12, so my only experience of public schools is my friends who were public schooled. And now that I have a little person to choose a school for, I'm taking more of an interest.

I think my parents got what they paid for - smaller class sizes, more structured and regimented learning, "better" (newer?) technology, access to more extra-curricular activities, school trips, more extensive resource facilities, etc. I think it's up to the individual student to take advantage of these sorts of things - how much effort they put into their schoolwork, how involved they get in extra-curricular things, whether they choose to utilise the resources.

The schools I went to took a great deal of interest in students' abilities and achievements - doing an extra-curricular sport was compulsory until Year 12, they had great music departments with groups that toured the world, everyone had to learn a foreign language until Year 11, and so on.

We actually had a class once a week called "life skills", where we each earned a St Johns First Aid Certificate, took dance classes, did volunteer work and so on. I also went on a school trip to far-north South Australia and was going to go on a tour of Europe with my choir (except that we moved interstate, so I couldn't go). These are opportunities that the public schools in my area simply didn't offer.

Additionally, I utilised the offer of the International Baccalaureate in senior college, which meant that we had smaller classes again, and we had to take a balanced course that included a good mix of english, maths, science, humanities, a foreign language and a philosophy course. IB also requires that each student does 50 hours of "creative" things (going to plays, taking a photography class, etc), 50 hours of community service and 50 hours of activity (sport, mostly). As far as I know, the IB is really only offered at private schools in Australia, and you can't get much more balanced than what it offers and requires.

My husband went to a Catholic high school, and his education was different again. As I understand it, the teachers and mentors weren't quite as hands-on and the facilities weren't as up-to-date - presumably because their fees are lower and they don't receive as much funding. And they had the extra focus on religion (which they had to take as a VCE subject), which we didn't have. The religion thing is fine if you're interested in it - but my opinion is that it doesn't have a place to be forced upon students in schools (which I guess defeats the purpose of going to a Catholic school ). My first school had a chapel service once a week in middle school, which you didn't have to attend, and my second school had chapel once a year. Both non-demoninational, both optional.

As far as the "you have to wear a uniform!" debate goes - uniforms create a sense of school pride, togetherness and belonging. It also mostly eradicates the bullying that happens when people don't wear "cool" clothes. I don't see the problem.

My schools were co-ed, and I will send all of my kids to co-ed schools. Not because I particularly think that people who go to single-sex schools are socially or emotionally stunted (although I've certainly seen evidence of that - but it happens in all schools), but because I don't like the idea of teaching my kids that boys and girls should be separated for some reason. If we're talking about preparing kids for life, then sending them to a single-sex school isn't a very accurate representation of what happens in the "real world", and I don't want to put my kids in that situation. And I mean, why shouldn't they have classes with boys and girls in them? I don't really understand the single-sex mindset. As I said, my schools were co-ed and it wasn't until I became a stupid drug-taking drunk when I was 18 that I let a guy come before my education. Again, that's a choice that each individual student makes, I think. Should lesbians be sent to all-boys schools in case they're distracted by the other students at their girls school?

Anyway, I'm torn about what to do with my daughter. On the one hand, I struggle to justify spending nearly a hundred thousand dollars so that she can be taught to read and write and count. But on the other hand, they say those are the most important years for learning, so maybe I should send her somewhere with smaller classes and more attentive teachers? What if she gets a crappy teacher? Should I send her to a public school for primary schooling and a private school for her secondary schooling? Or vice versa? Hard decisions

 

[phase_dancer]

Should I send her to a public school for primary schooling and a private school for her secondary schooling?

That would be my suggestion. Social skills are important. Being able to accept and mix with kids from any culture or social status gives skills which can strongly influence self confidence in later teen years. You certainly get that in most public primary schools.

But, from someone who had private teachers who worked at a public school, I can say that if money allows then it could perhaps be better to attend a private school for secondary education. My whole interest in science was ignited by 2 of these teachers. But then again, if the local public school has got the HQ teachers, leave em there.

I would also weigh up heavily the idea of religious instruction that went with any private school. If that encompassed all religions, great, but if like the private schools around here they are Christian based, I would decline on that alone. Because of that, and the way we've brought our kids up to let them find their own religious beliefs, we decided to give them the option and they both wanted to stay at the local public High school, right next to the Olympic sized pool and sports facilities.

Besides your own preferences, I guess any such decisions must also take into account where you are living at the time, and what the individual schools of the area offer.

 

[astrosmurf]

JUBAS: "i don't think you've got it quite right...
from memory,

your case is true for federal spending..
but its opposite for state spending..

overall, they get about the same total funding. i can't remember where i read it, but it was reputable!
i'll hunt for it"

i realise that federal and state fundings are different, but overall, i'm still pretty sure that private schools get more, from what i've read anyway....



"It says while state schools cater to around 70 per cent of all children, they only get only 35 per cent of the Federal Government's funding allocation."

" AEU Victorian branch president Mary Bluett says more than 60 Victorian schools receive more than $2 million each from the Commonwealth and many of these are elite private schools."

"That will see schools like Halebury College being funded at almost $5 million by the Federal Government - an increase of 278 per cent compared to a government school of a similar size, which gets about $800,000," Ms Bluett said."

""First and foremost, we need to explain to the community that Federal Government values those children in private schools above those children in public schools and spends two-thirds of direct Federal Government funding to the one-third of students at private schools," Ms O'Halloran said."

"Queensland Teachers Union president Julie-Ann McCullough says state schools have about 70 per cent of the total number of students but receive only 35 per cent of the funding."

and now for the other side of the fence, just to be fair

"But Education Minister Brendan Nelson says overall state schools get nearly $20 billion, while non-government schools get slightly more than $6 billion, and it is not the Federal Government that should be putting more money towards education."

all these quotes were taken from this article:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1045170.htm

other interesting articles:
http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8831101%5E2682,00.html this was published only yesterday

www.qtu.asn.au/Master_Budget_Submission_2004.pdf -

it's always hard to know who to believe when it comes to god damn politicians.

 

[Jubas]

yeah
so 6/20 = ~35% or so yeah?
therefore, both private and public get about the same don't they?
or close enough

yeah
politicians are a bit... hrmm, so so
they're the most notorious spin doctors in our country!

 

[astrosmurf]

JUBAS:
yeah
so 6/20 = ~35% or so yeah?
therefore, both private and public get about the same don't they?
or close enough


don't ask me, i went to a public school

 

[notneo]

Originally posted by anna!

However the sorts of people that go to private schools are the sorts of people I laugh at when walking down the street.

Elaborate?

Mainly due to their view on life. I know this was a huge generilisation but on the most part with my experience it holds true. They have different priorities in life from what I've seen also (first hand with close friends etc).


I know if I ever have children I will send them to the best 'public school' I can find. Because it exposes them to the world and let's them grow as an individual more so than at a private school.. that's my oppinion anyway.

 

[Cosmic Mist]

why should private schools get any funding from the governement at all though??

I went to a public academically selective high school, and it was a shocker. My school is located in the heart of a very save liberal seat, therefore it seems that we never got any sort of budget increase. Points in case include falling concrete from the ceiling, second and third hand books DONATED to us from other comprehensive highs, and a year 10 kid falling through a rotted wood working floor and twisting his ankle. We had 2 consecutive P&Cs walk out within a month, and the thrid P&C called in Today Tonight (in sydney) just before kids were to do their HSCs, so there was no where safe to hide from camera crews to study.

When you have to deal with things like this, and class sizes reaching 40 in some cases, it really doesn't seems fair that people who can afford to pay good money should be receiving extra government handouts. I appreciate that not all private school people are rich and snobby, nor are all publics schools breaking at theh seams, but i believe that privates schools should not be recieving public money. I mean, we've just had a high school closed here and sold to developpers, meaning that the 5 other crowded schools in this area have to take on the 800+ kids that no longer have a local high school.

I am glad that i went to the school that i did. I felt as though i achieved well because everything that happened was off my own bat. If i failed it was my fault, if i did well, it was because of my hard work. The atmosphere was such that people wanted to do well, and because my school was seen as a "dregy" school due to its lack of funding, it felt even better when i achieved good marks.

As far and the single sex/co-ed thing goes, i would prefer to send my kids to a co-ed school. If you can't learn to concentrate when there is the opposite gender around at school, how will you cope at uni, or in the work place? I believe that private schools can often put even too much pressure on kids these days - at my uni alone i have seen may private school kids fail because they were give the freedom to not attend class, and therefore didn't. I realise that not all private school kids are like this, but it just seems like too much of a coincidence.

I guess there is a place for both sorts of education in the world. I prefer public, but that 's probably just because that is all i have had. I don't think i could cope withthe ridgid routiens and the stifling of individuality... :/

 

[astrosmurf]

^^ well said!

 

[friskk]

I went to a private school for 12 years. My parents spent 150K dollars sending me to school alone. A lot of money just to learn.

I was surrounded by kids of all different religions, backgrounds and financial statuses. I was one of the poorest kids in my school. Kids use to pick on me cause I couldn't afford to buy cool clothes.. or go out.. Cause my parents had taken massive loans to pay for my schooling...
I use to sometimes hate my school. Other times I loved it.

What was I exposed to? - Trips to England to play cricket, trips interstate to go on debating teams, skiing trips, rocking climbing trips, white water rafting in tasmania, trips to China, trips to Malaysia and Singapore. Hosting kids from all around the world - People, who till this day I still speak to. Friendships that have lasted the test of time. Drama productions. Art schools. Facilities which a lot of people can only dream about. I saw my school a few years ago and was amazed to see how far the school had come.

I've finished my schooling 10 years ago. So many things have changed.. but i still hold fond memories for my schooling.

Could a public school offer all this? May be. May not. I really don't have much to compare to. I did my prep in a public school and it sucked. I had 7 teachers that year. How is a kid supposed to get a proper education.. when the teachers are only around for a month or so.

I really didn't have much to do with kids outside my school. To me.. this was the norm. Everyone had these facilities. No matter what my parents told me.. deep down may be i thought they were lying. If I only knew. I would have made better use of things.

Would you risk not providing your kid with the best possible education? I know I can't. May be that's cause i'm asian and schooling is one of our highest priorities. I don't know. Can I afford to send my kids to a private school? I hope so.

F

 

[anfalicious]

I believe that private schools can often put even too much pressure on kids these days - at my uni alone i have seen may private school kids fail because they were give the freedom to not attend class, and therefore didn't. I realise that not all private school kids are like this, but it just seems like too much of a coincidence.

This is the only negative thing said so far that I believe applies to me and my experience of private school.

I do have to qualify, I went to Catholic school, a much much MUCH different kettle of fish.

Firstly, yes, we paid school fees, about $3K/yr by the time I finished yr. 12. 50% of the kids in my school were on full scholarships, either sporting, accademic or 'compassionate' - ie the good Catholic families with 14 kids who contribute to the school community didn't pay, not that I had a problem with any of this, my parents could afford to pay, so they did, if they couldn't I probably still would've gone to the school.

So, all of my classes in Yr. 12 were 30+ kids, with the exception of 1, and that's because only 25 kids wanted to do History. My Yr. 11 & 12 was spent in an old Monastary, with no cooling (like, not even fans) and very second rate heating (we used to love the start of winter, most of the heaters worked still). Our technology was second to just about all. We did have awesome sporting facilities, but that was mainly because it was all built 30 yrs ago, before they started prosecuting priests for fondling little boys. So now, my school which was around 400 acres when I started is down to about 10 now...

SO the whole funding debate is fairly mute IMO. My school got 80% of the funding a similar government school got, and they were only able to make up about 10% of the difference.

So, having said all that, was it a good thing? For me, most definately, for my kids, we'll have to wait and see what kind of person they are.

Single sex worked awesomely for me, it was good not having the distractions at school. And that's not to say that I would've spent all day ogling the girlies, it's just that I've never found being around a group of teenage girls condusive to learning. Sure, school is about learning about the world, but you don't have the same hormone levels at 14 that you do the rest of your life. I never took anytime to make my self presentable in the morning, never did my hair, didn't care what I looked like, as long as me and my uniform were neat. Guys at school used to pick on me for this, but the response "who am I trying to impress here? I don't want to pick up guys..." was much easier to come back with than if I had been trying my arse off to look good and had some chick laugh at how I looked.

Both have their pros and cons. It shits me when Private school kids look down on public schoolers. Private was the way for me, but I can honestly say that most people I've met since finishing high school were/would've been better off in a public school.

Anyway, the argument shouldn't be about this, it should be about closing all Private schools (religious excluded), and just fund Public schools to the level of Private ones :D

Pipe dreams

 

[anna!]

They have different priorities in life from what I've seen also (first hand with close friends etc).

What are the differences in priorities that you've noticed? What priorities do they have that you think they shouldn't?

I prefer public, but that 's probably just because that is all i have had. I don't think i could cope withthe ridgid routiens and the stifling of individuality... :/

Where does this come from? We were always encouraged to express our individuality in various ways. Okay, so we couldn't cut up our uniforms or dye our hair pink (though a lot of us did anyway) but our ideas and opinions were always greatly encouraged at school.

The routines were just the same as they should be anywhere - you're supposed to be somewhere, so you go there. If you're not where you should be, there are consequences.

For the record, I don't "look down" on public schools at all, I just acknowledge that the two (or three, if you put Catholic schools in a different category) are very different and both have their pros and cons.

 

[Killing_time]

Are students given more opportunities in pivate schools or is this a load of shit?

Why don't you tell us Miss Fancy Pants Private School Girl!?


Don't worry, i'll give an indepth and opinionated answer later, Subway currently beckons.

PEACE

 

[Cosmic Mist]

I prefer public, but that 's probably just because that is all i have had. I don't think i could cope withthe ridgid routiens and the stifling of individuality... :/

Where does this come from? We were always encouraged to express our individuality in various ways. Okay, so we couldn't cut up our uniforms or dye our hair pink (though a lot of us did anyway) but our ideas and opinions were always greatly encouraged at school.

From what i have seen (obviously not having been involved in them myself) i cannot see that htey offer much freedom at all. Out of the people i know who have been to private schools, only 10% or so actually enjoyed it, and most of them feel that they would have achieved more had they remained, or been sent to a private school. A very dear friend of mine was actually asked to leave the school because she wore nail polish to school and had three earings instead of the regulation two. It would have been easy for her to simply comform to their perception of "right" but i think there are better things to be worrying about than things like this, things that are purely asthetic.

Please understand that i am not saying that there is anything wrong with these ridgid ideals, or the people who feel comfortable conforming to them, but i do not think that such a thing would have been appropriate for me. That was the point of my previous post.

And i agree wholeheartedly with the poster who stated that there should be no private schools, and that the government shouldfund education (primary , secondary and tertiary) in such a way that it is efficient and equal across the board. Coming from a school where we didn't have basket ball hoops, and where land had to be sold to raise money for things like computers, it is hard to hear about people who were able to go overseas to play sport (for example), and considered it normal at the time.

 

[anna!]

Originally posted by Cosmic Mist
From what i have seen (obviously not having been involved in them myself) i cannot see that htey offer much freedom at all. Out of the people i know who have been to private schools, only 10% or so actually enjoyed it, and most of them feel that they would have achieved more had they remained, or been sent to a private school. A very dear friend of mine was actually asked to leave the school because she wore nail polish to school and had three earings instead of the regulation two. It would have been easy for her to simply comform to their perception of "right" but i think there are better things to be worrying about than things like this, things that are purely asthetic.

How ridiculous Your friend's school is obviously crazy, that doesn't sound right at all. I had facial piercings when I was at school and it was never suggested that I should leave the school. While the schools I went to had fairly particular guidelines that students were supposed to follow, they were generally pretty lenient as long as you were maintaining attendance and grades and whatnot - which is obviously a crucial part of excelling in your chosen field.

Now, my opinion is that at least some regulations, rules, guidelines, etc are necessary to achieve the things that you want to achieve. On the one hand, people are saying that public schools are better because you learn to "fend for yourself" and so forth, but on the other hand, learning structure, discipline and consquence is all a fundamental part of life, and private schools teach you that. My feeling is that if you weren't willing to be exceptional, you'd probably have told your parents that they were wasting their money. And if you hadn't told them that, then you would be wasting their money. Private schools aren't a new invention, they've been doing this for a lot of years and if the guidelines they enforce weren't the right ones, I'm sure they'd know about it by now.

As for these sorts of things being "purely aesthetic", I think you'll find that, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it's about school spirit. The uniform is for giving students a feeling of community, belonging, school pride, etc. The defences forces don't wear (in the way they should, I might add) their uniforms for aesthetic reasons, so what makes you think schools do?

(For the record, almost every public school I've ever had anything to do with has had a uniform that they were strict about. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.)

Oh, and also for the record, of all the people I know who went to private schools (which is a lot of people), about 85% of them thought that the high school part at least was invaluable and very much enjoyed it. It could be based on any number of factors - teachers, subjects they studied, location, etc. I had to wear a purple freaking uniform for 10 months and hated every second of it, but I still loved my school life.

 

[Taliana]

I grew up in a lower middle class single parent family. Mum put me in a public school for primary school, we werent religious, so she didnt want to subject me to religion early, wanted me to find my own way.

However for high school i went to an all girls catholic school. In a way i do believe it stunted my social skills with the opposite sex(especially cuz i was ashy kid!), in the fact i had no male peers id see every day (besides the guys in the sport i did).
I wanted to badly go to apublic school with my friends from primary school, but mum insisted i go private. Im glad though, the education system, although more harsh, was better for me academically, more opportunities etc. I actually liked the school i was at and am glad i made the friends i did... (it was near the beach, so the beach culture was major at my school, so the "snobby" factor was pretty non-dominant)

I think id do the same for my kid... public(a GOOD public school, there are differences between them!) when they are young so they are taught about equality and about people in different socio economic groups... then a better quality high school (private).

 

[Jubas]

JUBAS:
yeah
so 6/20 = ~35% or so yeah?
therefore, both private and public get about the same don't they?
or close enough


don't ask me, i went to a public school

haha
classic

as for private school kids being so different from public school kids...

'wtf?'

their viewpoint isn't as warped as some people are pointing out. 3 years on from graduation of school, you couldn't guess who went to private or public in most situations! its like your UAI. once you've used it, or not.. no one really cares about it!

 

[haste]

I've found this thread an interesting read, mainly because I was oblivious to alot of whats in here - my knowledge of private schools is what is portrayed in movies. Reason for this is that I grew up in a small country town - there was only one school around, the local public school.

 

[TiTTy]

Re: Re: Public vs Private Schools

Why don't you tell us Miss Fancy Pants Private School Girl!?

yep I went to a private anglican school for girls since year 5. Firstly i must thank everyone for their opinions it has been a really interesting read. I have mixed feelings on private vs public schools so it's nice to read other peoples point of views.

I think the stigma associated with going to private school of being snobby little brats is one of the hardest things i have been faced with since leaving the school. I don't often mention where i went to school as I know alot of people make negative first impression about me based on this.

I think there are alot of little brats who went to private schools but those people who went to public schools can't tell me that there were no little brats who daddy bought everything for at their school. I find that in primary school most of the children are little brats who's parents can buy them everything and then when you go to the high school there is a more diverse group of students. There are people from the country whos parents are working their arse off to give their girl a good education, girls on scholarships ect.

The religous side of things at my school were not to strict. We had chapel every month and a class called 'beliefs and Values' which focused on all aspects/types of religion such a buddism and also things such as Amnesty International. The school never drilled ideas into our head just tried to make us aware of society around us.

All though i hated the discipline at the time i think it was probably a good thing for me. I have an unhealthy curiosity in things that are not accepted by society (ie drugs) I have always had this however the rules at school and the amount of co-curricular activities I did stopped me from acting out as much (until now ) and probably encouraged me to finish school. At my school you would get warnings for peircings and alot of girls have been threatened expulsion for having tongue peircings ect- the solution to this take them out while at school.

This discipline might be a problem though as private all girl schools have the highest drop out rate from uni.

The opportunities I got at PC were great (similar to what Friskk said)
- they could also be available at public school but i don't know. I got to play heaps of sports such as rowing and running, got involved in drama and protests, other students got to go on language tours and exchange programs.

With the Government funding i don't know much about it but i don't think it is acceptable. I belive that the funding for public schools should be increased to allow the students at public schools to have the same opportunities as private schools.

Private schools I find are good for the community aspects I probably don't take advantage of it at the moment maybe when im older i will appreciate it. Ill tell you guys this one really sad story to show how the school suppports the families even after the girls have left the school. In one case two girls were left on their own to support themselves as their mother died ( the father is not in the picture). The school gave the youngest daughter a scholarship to help her complete year 12 and helped the two girls emotionally and fincially until they got there feet on the ground. Would you know many public school that would help a leaver do that?

shit I wrote heaps! That just sounded like propaganda for private school- sorri about that i kind of went on the defense after reading other peoples responses.
The school did offer me heaps but i really hate the snobby stigma associated with private schools!! yes there are some bitches but not all most of my mates are from public schools and this is a similar case for many girls at my school.

 

[Cosmic Mist]

i guess the school my friends come from are pretty wack then - one good friend of mine was actually suspended for a month for shaving her head. She was suspended until her hair grew back... :/

Personally, i never really saw how a uniform increased the sense of school community. I have been to high school in canada (public) and i saw how they perceived their school - there was a huge sense of community and friendship, but there was no uniform.
ANother good example would be the Steiner schools which are located around the spot. I these schools are based on different principles of learning, and have a much less rigorous school life than even most public schools. They have a huge amount of school spirit, but they too have nothing but a dress code...

ANd i do agree with you when you say that rules, regulations and guidelines are necessary to help individuals have a structured life, but i do think there are limits to this. Like having compulsory school sport on a saturday. Where this is present, when does the child have time to rest? I mean, i know that it generally doesn't last the whole day, and that htere is the sunday for rest, but when one attends a catholic school one has church on Sunday i would guess (predominantly).

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree - i think we come from very different places and know very different people. Most of the people i know who attended private schools look back on the days fondly, but most of them state that even to this day they would have preffered to stay in the publics schools. Perhaps i just know a wacky bunch of people.

 

[doofqueen]

And as for religion making a mess of peoples head. If you head is small and simple enough to be manipulated by an individual or an institution without thinking about what the meaning and relevence IS to YOUR life rather than what they SAY the relevence SHOULD be, you deserved to be messed in the head. If not the church it would be something/one else.

yeah because five to twelve year olds really know what is right and wrong when it comes to religion hey? They are there at school to be shaped into adults and to learn to read, write, get healthy, be creative etc etc and school is a basis of what their beliefs are going to be for the rest of their life in a way. Pushing and feeding religious gargabe on children is not on in my book 8)