Ptsd benzos addiction and opiods

[ikop]

Ok. I am not native Eng' speaker but i will do my best.
in aprial 2010 i was attaked at the street by 6-9 people (knifs, boards and one had gun . i was not shoot , just threatened, but they did used the knifs and bords. phisicly i recovered quickly and thought i will get over it.
but i got hard shock and ptsd because of the atatack.

i have some plans how to treat my ptsd ( i opned a threat about it ) bit it is not the issue in this thread .
i tiread many drugs to stop the anxiety and hyper state that i got after ptsd - just benzos helped. clonazepam- Klonopin. started with one tablet of 0.5mg. and sticked with this "magic" Klonopin ,that "cured" my ptsd nearly by 90%. now, allmost 3 years later my tolerance become very huge. i take 10 -12 mg of Klonopin or 60 Valium- Diazepam tablets of 10 mg each -Diazepam . (600 mg) .
i do it not take evrey day somtines twice a week , somtimes 3 4 times. sometimes i stop for 8-10 days (maximum) and that start afaun .
I know i need to stop . i tried topamax and prysoline for taparing. i tried big doses of topmax wich helped much with tremors and jerks , light sensetivity ans somthing that reminds epilepsy, but not the anxiety. not the ptsd anxiety and not the benzos wiwithdrawal ( there is a deference , they are similar in many ways and one is exaggerate the other, but with benzos withdrawal i do not have the uncontroled ptsd hypervigalence ( it is like you are allways detecting threats from faces, people , noises , etc' )
in any case i must to stop benzos .

The only class of srugs that helps me is opiods like Oxycodone 40- 80 mg and mccr 100 mg (high dose of Morphine controled release) the do wonders with anxiety boths benzos withdrawal anxiey and ptsd hypervigalence- anxiety) i started to use it a week ago. and did not used benzos this week

SWIM can get or buy in the street 2 tablets for each day in order not to use benzos for some seriuos [periods of time .

my question :
for how long i can take this opiods 1-2 tablets ;each a day withaout building big tolerance and stopping withdrawal from opiods
can i take them for 2 month dayli and than stop witpus serious withdrawal and dependence ?
maybe 3 months ? maybe 1 month is maximum ?

i just dont know. the purpose is not to get hight.the porpuse is to get of benzos anxiety, and be 2-3 moths benzos free changung them with this drugs for 2 months (the are hallepimg me to stop benzos - somthing i was not able to do for 3 years.



thank you.

 

[hatrix]

Trying to get off of benzos by using opiates is NOT a good idea. I would recommend counseling for your PTSD. Benzos may help, but you clearly have a bad habit because of them. Your 600mgs of valium, (not 6000mgs), is a lot of valium to go through. I'm not sure what the time span is, but I think what you're saying is you went thru it fast.

Benzo withdrawal is honestly worst than opiate withdrawal. It can cause bad seizures and you can DIE from it. It's very serious. You don't want to get addicted to opiates on top of it. Continue to TRY to taper off of benzos, cold turkey is a bad idea, and I know you must live in a foreign country, but try to talk to a counselor who specializes in PTSD. They should be able to help you.

Also you said SWIM, we don't use SWIM here. But you only used it once so it was pointless anyways lol.

 

[Pagey]

I developed PTSD after getting raped last year and I can tell you trying to 'cure' it with meds is completely ineffective and will just hurt you more in the long run. Are you seeing a therapist specialised in treating PTSD victims?
And as hatrix said, helping benzo WD with opiates is a very bad idea. It's more than likely you're just gonna end up transferring addictions. Taper off the benzos slowly (whatever you do, don't go CT), force yourself not to use painkillers to help in the process and you'll be in a MUCH better spot once you're off the benzos, trust me.

As I also suffer from PTSD and used to abuse benzos heavily, feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk.

 

[ikop]

thank you . i edited the post. it is 600 mg of valium .
the thing is that for 3 yerars i tried to stop benzos and could not do it . not with anti d. not with will power and not with topamax even . I know that opiods are very addictive , but what it the longest period of time ( in avarage) i can take opiods dayli, and not causing very storng withdrawal after ?
even a month without benzos will be a good motivational start to stopping them for good.

thanks.

 

[Pagey]

Opioid addiction will build very fast. I'm not sure exactly how long it takes, but honestly about a week of continuous use will be enough to get you mildly physically addicted. It's the psychological addiction that's really dangerous though, and IME that can set in practically from the first time you use them.
I really can't stress this enough, do NOT use opiates to help with benzo WDs.

 

[pasha]

There are a couple of things wrong with using opioids to get off benzodiazepines. First thing is that when you're in withdrawal (as I understand it from monstrous doses) of benzodiazepines, your seizure threshold is lowered. All opioids can lower the seizure threshold to some extent, so your putting yourself at a higher risk of a seizure. The second problem is that benzodiazepine withdrawal lasts quite a long time, months at minimum. While opioids may be effective at relieving the depression and anxiety that come with withdrawal, the period in which you'll have to use them, even in acute withdrawal, is certainly enough to warrant dependence.

Taper your benzodiazepines firstly. Then you have options to help you with the withdrawal. The gold standard would be pregabalin and gabapentin (believe me they are much better for withdrawal than opioids). Other things you might want to look into, and discuss with your doctor are carbamazepine or phenobarbital. It might also not be a bad idea to check into a detox where you can be looked after. If not, plan it out in detail, discuss your plan with your doctor, have him confirm it, and you're on your way.

 

[ikop]

thank you for the answer pegey. i will be more particulary.
. i will twice 40 mg og oxycodone/ (i feel the effects for 5 hours) or once day 100 mg of morphine CR (i feel the efect for 12 hours)
i will take theam for 5 times a week with 2 days of brake.
i do it not to cure ptsd or to treat my anxiety problems , but because i need to be benzos free for 1.5/ 2 months benzos free to start to fill some relief from them (not recovery .... 2 months for 3 years of such high benzos tolerance is not enought. it can take even 8 months.... or more .
after 1.5 02 months i will atop opiods. ok ?
so it will be 5 days yes 2 days no for 1.5-2 months.
can i do it this way ?

I do have huge bezo tolerance but my withdrawal symptoms are not life threating and i can go cold turey with some other agent help . I was not taking it evry day as i said. somtimes i took it only once a week, SOMTIMES TWiCe Somtimes 3-4 . but never more. so i did build tolerance i do have phisical dependence, and i feel it . but i read about people that used a dose that is 10 times smaller than mine but the took their 1.5 mg evrey day , and their withdrawl was more nasty. I dont knwo why but tolerance does not = the same phsical dependence. i think the dayli regular frequency , even woth low doses can produce more damage than using big doses once a week lets say.

but anyway, are everyone against using strong opiods for 1.5 months ? (the first 2 months are the most hardest in benzo withdrwasls. ) .

and i did tried lyrica to withdrawal from benzos,did not halped the calming and anxiolitic effects are are much stornger from opiods than fron lyrica for me at least.

and how can you comparea 7-9 day wizdrawal of opiods to a (somtimes ) 1 year of dayli wizhdrawll hell from benzodiazapines

 

[pasha]

Withdrawal from benzodiazepines is much more severe than opioid withdrawal, can be life threatening and cause brain damage without the use of a drug like gabapentin/pregabalin or without tapering your dose slowly. It's not really clear to me what your regimen is like. You mentioned 600 milligrams of diazepam and 10-12 milligrams of clonazepam.

Can you give me and example of roughly how often you used to take them (both the clonazepam and diazepam) and in what dosages?

Example:

"I used to take 30 milligrams of diazepam (Valium) x 3 daily x 3 days a week"

 

[Swimmingdancer]

but anyway, are everyone against using strong opiods for 1.5 months ? (the first 2 months are the most hardest in benzo withdrwasls. )

I am definitely against this idea. You can't take 80 mg oxycodone or 100 mg morphine a day every day (or even 5 days a week) for 1 to 3 months without getting physically dependent on it.

and how can you comparea 7-9 day wizdrawal of opiods to a (somtimes ) 1 year of dayli wizhdrawll hell from benzodiazapines

It's not like opioid withdrawal just lasts for 7-9 days and then you suddenly feel all better. It totally depends on the specific drug, how long you take it for, and the individual person. People can and do have what are called "post-acute" withdrawals from opioids which can last for a very long time. Post-acute withdrawals are also what you are talking about when you say benzodiazepine withdrawal can last for a year - the "acute" stage does not last for a year. But really the main reason it's a bad idea to use opioids to quit benzos is that all they will do is mask your benzo withdrawals and your other problems and you will then end up mentally addicted to the opioid. If you stop the opioid you will have both opioid withdrawals and your post-acute benzo withdrawals will be back and your anxiety and PTSD will be even worse than it was before. So you will then not want to stop taking the opioids and will have just replaced your benzo addiction with an opioid addiction and be no better off.

 

[ikop]

Swimmingdancer

thanks for the info . but i started this path and i am now around 10 days without benzos. i took topmax 50 mg and morphine CR . the morphine called m.c.r 100 mg. i started with braking into 1/4 and taking 25 mg twice a day , now after 10 days i take brake into 1/2 and take 50 mg twice a day + topmax once a day . the topmax stoped the jerks but not the rebound anxiety of benzos . with the m.c.r it eased with the presure and the anxiety of the benzos. (i still have my "normal ptsd problems) .

I know it migh not be the best way to the benzos but i am now 10 day without it and i want to try to take the morhpine for the next month and a half . please tell me what can happen in terms of dependence and how should i tapper m.c.r (morphine) after 90 days of dayli usage .

 

[filthygerms]

600mgs of valium??

I almost want to call bullshit, but ill take the high route and say you might have a problem, but tapering with opiates will just be setting yourself up to go back to the benzos, because by the time you develop a tolerance to the opiates your benzo tolerance will be gone and you will be able to dose for a lower price....

I say you could take 60-80mgs of oxy a day for up to 4-5 days without significant withdrawl symptoms...

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Swimmingdancer

thanks for the info . but i started this path and i am now around 10 days without benzos. i took topmax 50 mg and morphine CR . the morphine called m.c.r 100 mg. i started with braking into 1/4 and taking 25 mg twice a day , now after 10 days i take brake into 1/2 and take 50 mg twice a day + topmax once a day . the topmax stoped the jerks but not the rebound anxiety of benzos . with the m.c.r it eased with the presure and the anxiety of the benzos. (i still have my "normal ptsd problems) .

I know it migh not be the best way to the benzos but i am now 10 day without it and i want to try to take the morhpine for the next month and a half . please tell me what can happen in terms of dependence and how should i tapper m.c.r (morphine) after 90 days of dayli usage .

Well the biggest risk is mental addiction. As for physical dependence (withdrawals), PLEASE do not take the morphine for 90 days. At least limit it to a couple more weeks. It is seriously just likely to make your benzo PAWS (post-acute withdrawals) worse when you stop taking it, especially if you take it for 3 months.

As to what kind of withdrawals you'd get from the morphine, it's hard to say because everyone is different in how quickly physical dependence progresses, but that is definitely long enough and a high enough dose that you will get withdrawals. Here's a list of some common withdrawal symptoms from morphine: drug cravings, anxiety, depression, self-loathing, suicidal ideation, irritability, inability to sleep, fatigue, sweating, chills, hot flushes, yawning, crying, runny nose, goosebumps, aching bones and muscles, nausea, diarrhea, loss of appetite, intestinal cramping, tremors, restlessness, restless legs/arms/involuntary leg/arm movements (and/or voluntarily moving them to relieve pain), coughing/tickly throat, involuntary orgasm (which may be painful, creepy skin sensations, feeling pain from things that normally shouldn't be painful, and so on.

You can reduce (but not eliminate) the symptoms by tapering, but how much they are reduced really depends on the person and it is very common to still have milder versions of a lot of the above symptoms, or have withdrawal symptoms in between doses or while lowering your dose. The psychological symptoms, trouble sleeping, and heightened sensitivity to pain can persist for a lot longer than the 6-12 days that the acute withdrawal stage normally lasts for.

If you're adamant on doing this anyway, to give you advice on tapering off 100mg ER morphine per day I need to know what strength the pills or capsules you have are (for example are they 30mg each or what?) and whether or not they are tablets that you can cut in half or even quarters.