PTSD Benzodiazepine tolerance , withdrawal and opiates .

[ikop]

Hello . I got ptsd 2.5 years ago .
after the oncet of the ptsd i got symptoms very simmilar to what is callled "Benzodiazepine withdrawal" (never uesed any kind of benzo before) .

I was experiencing problems with all kind of sounds , photopibia , tremors, fasciculations, memory and concentration problems ,Fatigue , parania , 24/7 anxiety. startle responses , insomnia . and other symptoms .

well i went to the hospital , and the started to treat me with ssri's , and than with snri's' , clonodine , proponolol , lyrica , old generation anti d, - nothing halped.
so i tried klonopin , 1 mg! and like a magic i felt better 90% of the symptoms , the startle responses, the anxiety were gone - but after 4 hours it all come back . so i took another 1 mg. and so on....
after a month when i realized that my tolerance is growing i started to usu benzos once in every 2 weeks for 2 days. i mean "clean for 14 days that 2 days of klonopin and than stop for 14 days and then 2 days of klonopin and so on .
it is 2 years like that.
today my tolernca is 16 mg of klonopin to get and effect.
the problem is that i fell very very bad , and i dont know if it is from ptsd , or it has to do to the benzo , because like i said , with ptsd you feel so bad and the symptoms can mimic benzo addiction.

so how can i know if I do have wizhdrawl ??? (yes , i have tollerance it is for sure , but tolerance does not equal dependence.... )

anyway , idecied to stop using benzos. although it is the only medicine that helps me - gives me some window to the world.....

2) if quit benzos - i know that it is not recomended to drink alcohol because of cross tolerance.
but what about opiates like oxycontin , codaine , and morphine ? can i use it ? they are helping me a bit .

3) can u use primidone (it is a drug for essential tremor) i have tremors and it helping me . but it is an antiepileptic drug.... andmigh have some cross tolerance with benzos i think.

The doctors i spoke with dont know the answers to those questions. so i hope maybe somone here has some knowledge.


thanks, and sorry for grammar - not a native .

 

[cook]

I find it strange you have developed such a high tolerance for clonazepam only using it in 2/16 days. Then again the half-life of clonazepam is long so I guess everything is possible. But I don't think you could avoid dependence in case where massive tolerance gain has taken place.

2) if quit benzos - i know that it is not recomended to drink alcohol because of cross tolerance.
but what about opiates like oxycontin , codaine , and morphine ? can i use it ? they are helping me a bit .

Opioids work for anxiety even better than benzo's in my experience. Especially the downer-kind of opioids eg. morphine, not oxy. But you can expect to gain even more tolerance and dependence with them if you use them for such a condition. But for benzo withdrawal for a limited period, well it could work in short therm.

Still I'm having hard time believing you could actually be dependent on benzo's with that frequency but then again your tolerance speaks something else.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I find it strange you have developed such a high tolerance for clonazepam only using it in 2/16 days. Then again the half-life of clonazepam is long so I guess everything is possible.

If someone is using more than is therapeutically necessary and constantly raising their dose they can build up a high tolerance very rapidly. (Or if they are using other drugs (incl alcohol) that have cross-tolerance).

ikop, are you still only taking it every 14 days for 2 days in a row?

1) I do think a significant physiological dependence would be unlikely when having 14 days in between. But that doesn't mean that the symptoms you're experiencing have nothing to do with benzos. Benzo use can cause worsening of the original symptoms or "rebound" symptoms when you don't take them.

2) I would NOT recommend using opioids to cope with your symptoms, as they are very dependence-causing and addictive and would only temporarily mask your symptoms, leaving you with greater problems and worsened symptoms in the long run. I would highly recommend you find a more knowledgeable doctor and also consider non-drug treatments for your PTSD.

3) Primidone will likely help with tremors/seizures and insomnia. I would guess there would be some cross-tolerance or decreased efficacy, but I'm not sure. It does have a lot of drug interactions so do your research if you're going to take it at the same time as other drugs. Primidone also has a lot of side effects and lasting adverse health effects.

 

[ikop]

Well, to be honest 14 2 is not 100% true.
When i said 14/2 it is the average i guess. there were times i used it more. like 10/3 or 7/2 . it is hard to remember for 100%.
but the tolerance is huge. 16 mg is the minimum for feeling effect. i believe i can take up to 30 mg .
And i do have tolerance to alchohol although i do not drink. i can drink up to half liter of vodka,i think it is a lot for a non drinking person. i think ,like someome said here. i got it from cross tolerance with benzos.

about promidone - i think i did not explained myself well .
lets say i do have dependence and my symptoms are partly from benzos and not from ptsd.
it is recomended do not drink alchohol while one is in withdrawal from benzos, so i asked what about primidone ? it is an antiepileptic drug and migh partly act on gaba receptors so it may worsening or making the withdrawal longer...? or i am wrong here ?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

about promidone - i think i did not explained myself well .
lets say i do have dependence and my symptoms are partly from benzos and not from ptsd.
it is recomended do not drink alchohol while one is in withdrawal from benzos, so i asked what about primidone ? it is an antiepileptic drug and migh partly act on gaba receptors so it may worsening or making the withdrawal longer...? or i am wrong here ?

That's a good question. So you are wondering it would leave you still dependent and still in withdrawals when you stop taking the primidone? It might, I'm not certain. Not much is known/understood about primidone's mechanism of action. One theory is that it works on sodium channels. BUT I've read that a fair amount of it converts to a barbiturate in the body, which does affect GABA, so I think you should try to take it only when absolutely needed and gradually taper off of it.

 

[ikop]

Ater 12 dAYS OF MORPHINE (2 A DAY) S TOPED THIS PILS.
I Guess IAM having some MILD WTHRADwals SYNPTONS , NOUSEA, CANNOT EAT (or it is hard to eat - but i foce myself) AND some mild BLUED VION. bit itis managible.
BUT NO PAIN .
TodayY I TOK MY USALLY 10 MG Of CLONEZAPEM .
IT IS NO SO SIMPLE...
NOT AS I THOUGHT I WILL .

 

[bunge]

You seem to be experiencing some fine motor control problems and/or vision and cognition problems, judging from your typing. Is there anyone there to keep an eye on you? Just incase you fall or pass out.

 

[ikop]

You seem to be experiencing some fine motor control problems and/or vision and cognition problems, judging from your typing. Is there anyone there to keep an eye on you? Just incase you fall or pass out.

i am all onlone ath this fucking stuggle. ptsd and benzos adiiction. what i am having right now it deferent from what i usualy have from benzos wizdrawl - do yo think it is kind of a mild opiods wizdeawl ? i i used morphibe 2 a day for 11 days.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

If you literally have to take 16mg of clonazepam, don't take clonazepam. It's clearly not working correctly, or you've already blown your benzo tolerance very high.

 

[bunge]

Ikop, you being alone through this is really worrying to hear. your typing though better then earlier is still erratic. How do you feel now, compared too earlier today? Is there a chance that your massive dose of clonazepam could be causing some of these symptoms? In particular the blurred vision. You could be in some small withdrawl from the morphine but pain is usually a common symptom. Could you see a doctor maybe? just to check theres nothing else going on. I know you said that your clonazepam dose is normal for you but it seems very extreme.

 

[bronson]

If you literally have to take 16mg of clonazepam, don't take clonazepam. It's clearly not working correctly, or you've already blown your benzo tolerance very high.

This, but just bear in mind that you are going to want to do a slow taper, as quitting cold turkey can result in life threatening withdrawals.

I think based on your history with the benzos, the amount of time that has went by, and your currently addled state. Professional medical help is honestly advisable.