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Mental Health Psychosis

Jerry Atrick said:
I must have overlooked this post.
Sorry about the hugging trees thing. I only know enough about the primitive use of psychedelics to get me into trouble. I had to re-read this thread. For one thing you are taking what I say to other posters out of context with the conversation you and I were having on the side. Anyways, I'm not a psychiatrist and I'm assuming you are not either. All I have to draw from are my own experiences as a person with mental illness and I am also a social worker. So I can say with a clear conscience that in my own personal experience, the OP of this thread needs to stabilize BEFORE they consider going the med-free route you have suggested as an alternative. The quickest and safest way to stabilize is to take the meds as prescribed. Then again, my cards are on the table and you are still refusing to tell your story.
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OP said that he/she did not want to take the drugs. And I agree stabilization is key. Now, you mentioning you are a social worker, as a social worker I am kind of worried that you are trying to force a story out of someone who you seem to assume is unwilling. That is kind of menacing. However, you're off the hook, my problem here is my need for detail but I can give you the basic run of things.

I had been abusing amphetamines and had a foreclosure of reality. There can be MANY things attributed here as to why it happened. However this is not important, the important thing is my subjectivity of reality was reincorporated with reality. It wasn't pretty, but the worst of it was definitely trying to get help from the hospitals and from psychiatrists. I did come across one who diagnosed me (after five other psychiatrists each with their own differing view) that gave me klonopin. Now, the most important thing out of everything I had said is that you do social work! You should be very weary of your words and use them carefully.



Jerry Atrick said:
No, what Ho Chi Minh said was more accurate. Catatonia is not its own class like schizophrenia. It is one of many symptoms of schizophrenia but is not on equal footing in the Holy DSM.
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I'm sorry but how can you be in conflict with the DSM?

*My only response to the previous conflict is this:
Your "tough love" is fear objectified.
 
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Shrooms00087 said:
OP said that he/she did not want to take the drugs. And I agree stabilization is key. Now, you mentioning you are a social worker, as a social worker I am kind of worried that you are trying to force a story out of someone who you seem to assume is unwilling. That is kind of menacing. However, you're off the hook, my problem here is my need for detail but I can give you the basic run of things.

I had been abusing amphetamines and had a foreclosure of reality. There can be MANY things attributed here as to why it happened. However this is not important, the important thing is my subjectivity of reality was reincorporated with reality. It wasn't pretty, but the worst of it was definitely trying to get help from the hospitals and from psychiatrists. I did come across one who diagnosed me (after five other psychiatrists each with their own differing view) that gave me klonopin. Now, the most important thing out of everything I had said is that you do social work! You should be very weary of your words and use them carefully.





I'm sorry but how can you be in conflict with the DSM?

*My only response to the previous conflict is this:
Your "tough love" is fear objectified.
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First of all, I'm a social worker out there. In here I am anonymous and can be as big of a dick as I want without my career being on the line.

Second of all, as a social worker, I have dealt with people who are in various stages of severe mental illness every day for the past two years. Just because someone says they do not want to take meds does not mean that is the best treatment plan for the person. Since one can never force someone to take their meds, the only other option is persuasion. When someone is not responding to compassion or logic, sometimes fear is what they need.

As a person with mental illness, I have been through the not wanting to take medicine stages. I pulled that shit for years. Like I said before, when I was going through the revolving door of various state hospitals, waking up in jail cells, and living homeless on the streets all because I refused medication.....one or two doctors showed me some tough love and put some fear into me that worked. I started taking my meds and I have been relatively symptom-free for 7 years.

Finally, I'm not in conflict with the DSM. Do I have to wiki catatonia for you or can you do it yourself? Look it up. Catatonia is not a separate disorder. It is recognized as a psychiatric condition (aka symptom) of schizophrenia, bipolar, etc.

Are you tired or arguing yet?
 
Elyn Saks decision to finally stay on meds is one of the most eloquent discussions on that very hard decision. I've read a little about yours, Jerry, and I expanded my knowledge by doing so. Thanks for your transparency--I think we need more of that in this subject/field.
 
Jerry Atrick said:
First of all, I'm a social worker out there. In here I am anonymous and can be as big of a dick as I want without my career being on the line.
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What you are In here you cast Out there...In other words, your ethics isn't really ethics because you draw a line saying this is when I stop caring about that which I am supposed to care about. That is not only hypocritically dangerous, but very ominous.

Jerry Atrick said:
Second of all, as a social worker, I have dealt with people who are in various stages of severe mental illness every day for the past two years. Just because someone says they do not want to take meds does not mean that is the best treatment plan for the person. Since one can never force someone to take their meds, the only other option is persuasion. When someone is not responding to compassion or logic, sometimes fear is what they need.
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I'm sorry but when someone tells me "no" when asked about a life treatment I do not instinctively try to persuade someone to a "yes". Especially with fear, what a God awful thing to do. This does not mean, that a no cannot turn into a yes but that decision should be based on the person experiencing the symptoms and not the authority positioning their opinion of where someone falls in line with statistics. What they need is help. Not condemnation, fear, or even love. Just information, so that they may be the one who makes up their mind. And again I am not suggesting people stop taking all drugs this is ludicrous. Merely your method is ominous.

Jerry Atrick said:
As a person with mental illness, I have been through the not wanting to take medicine stages. I pulled that shit for years. Like I said before, when I was going through the revolving door of various state hospitals, waking up in jail cells, and living homeless on the streets all because I refused medication.....one or two doctors showed me some tough love and put some fear into me that worked. I started taking my meds and I have been relatively symptom-free for 7 years.
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Congratulations on being symptom free. By chance, did any psychiatrists ever try to use "tough love" on you when you were revolving? Or did they simply say everything will be peaches and cream? Which method worked better for you? Since you are so open, what of these one or two doctors? What did they show you that waking up in hospitals, jail cells, being homeless didn't show you? It sounds like you refused your medication and then learned you wanted to take the drugs. It's like you are projecting your own experience on "one or two" doctors :P

Jerry Atrick said:
Finally, I'm not in conflict with the DSM. Do I have to wiki catatonia for you or can you do it yourself? Look it up. Catatonia is not a separate disorder. It is recognized as a psychiatric condition (aka symptom) of schizophrenia, bipolar, etc.
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I first posited this as a question. Then partially conceded. I thought however "not being on equal footing" you had a dissenting opinion?

Jerry Atrick said:
Are you tired or arguing yet?
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I do not tire of this. As long as it doesn't become petty.
 
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Hi, i am new here and have a question for constant cocaine users. my boyfriend ( we have been in a LDR) always dabbled in cocaine but stopped for a while, however, in the past hafl year he started using again. The reason i found out he started using is due to him accusing me of sleeping with every man/person he could think of. When we skype he asks me to walk around my appartment with my laptop to show there is no one there, multiple times and that doesnt even satisfy him. He thinks there is someone hiding in my bathroom/under the bed/ stanind behind me. he also thinks that when i talk with my hands i am signalling to someone, and many more examples. He wont get off the drugs. i really want to try and be with him but i need to know if this will stop once he stops the drugs, does anyone have experience with this?
 
^

Depends on how long he's used, how much, and so forth. There can definitely be degenerative factors in long term use.
 
I think most schizophrenics refuse treatment or are non-compliant, generally unable to notice the deficit they have acquired. You can't think with schizophrenia, so how are you supposed to work out what is now missing? It's only when you are reminded of what a normal cognitive state is like upon taking the right meds that you can finally agree and have insight. It's a bit of a catch-22.

I was putting down meds for ages, reading all the bad news about them etc. meanwhile my mental health team was constantly reminding me I have an illness like any other illness and you just need to take the medication. Not too long ago it was going waaay down hill with some batshit fucked up feelings and I finally went and took the medication they kept suggesting because it worked when I was on it for a few months many years ago. Amazing difference. Now I will be taking them for as long as is suggested.

You can't beat mental illness without medication, just accept that.
 
bees_knees said:
I think most schizophrenics refuse treatment or are non-compliant, generally unable to notice the deficit they have acquired. You can't think with schizophrenia, so how are you supposed to work out what is now missing? It's only when you are reminded of what a normal cognitive state is like upon taking the right meds that you can finally agree and have insight. It's a bit of a catch-22.

I was putting down meds for ages, reading all the bad news about them etc. meanwhile my mental health team was constantly reminding me I have an illness like any other illness and you just need to take the medication. Not too long ago it was going waaay down hill with some batshit fucked up feelings and I finally went and took the medication they kept suggesting because it worked when I was on it for a few months many years ago. Amazing difference. Now I will be taking them for as long as is suggested.

You can't beat mental illness without medication, just accept that.
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If you read this thread then you know where I stand on the issue. However, the reality is that you can't beat severe mental illness even with medication. All I will ever be able to do is work to maintain equilibrium with the aid of medication. I'm sure if you've read this much on schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder, you understand that there is no cure for these diseases. There is only the maintenance of symptoms. When someone gets diagnosed with diabetes, they have to accept that they will be on medication for the rest of his or her life. I will be on psych meds until the day I die. As soon as I was able to fully accept that fact, I began regaining my life and I started the next chapter.
 
Jerry Atrick said:
When someone gets diagnosed with diabetes, they have to accept that they will be on medication for the rest of his or her life. I will be on psych meds until the day I die. As soon as I was able to fully accept that fact, I began regaining my life and I started the next chapter.
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The way you balance acceptance and a take-charge attitude has always impressed me greatly, Jerry. You're an inspiration!
 
herbavore said:
The way you balance acceptance and a take-charge attitude has always impressed me greatly, Jerry. You're an inspiration!
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Thanks. I must give credit to my family, who educated themselves through NAMI while I was in and out of hospitals. I put them through hell but they didn't give up on me.
 
I've had amphetamine psychosis which I read, is supposed to mimic schizophrenia.
Some societies see schizophrenics as shamanics, but we prefer to chemically lobotomize them.
This society is insane. I mean 1% of the world are on 43% of the wealth. Some states in America want to ban homelessness, because it affects the 'quality of life' of the rich, I could go on with much more insanity.
Who are the real psychotics?
As RD Laing once said, insanity is a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
Psychosis is like dreaming while awake.
It's an overspill of the unconscious into the conscious mind.
Lack of sleep can cause it, because in dreams we open to our unconscious.
 
I honestly don't think enough people know how anti-psychotics work. They're supposed to have maximum potential reached in six months. Yes, one needs to wait that long to get the most out of it.
 
There is something in schizophrenia that makes you think there's nothing wrong with you, there is no 'insight' into your own changed condition, it just changes and you're that now. That's why treatment is refused. Also you want to fight everyone because they're persecuting you in some way. So you fight the docs even if just passive aggressively by not taking your pills.
 
bees_knees said:
There is something in schizophrenia that makes you think there's nothing wrong with you, there is no 'insight' into your own changed condition, it just changes and you're that now. That's why treatment is refused. Also you want to fight everyone because they're persecuting you in some way. So you fight the docs even if just passive aggressively by not taking your pills.
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But pills are not the real answer are they?
I'm no professional and I am sure the medics mean well and think they are helping, but what we need is a real shake up of the system and a total change.

RD Laing listened to his schizophrenic patients and the content of the seemingly incoherent material that was coming out of them.
This material was the patient subconscious which had spilled over into the conscious and needed to be dealt with, in order for the patient to gradually return to a better state.
Schizophrenics need a lot of time and the modern medical profession does not have that time.
Neither do the friends and family of the schizophrenic, because life is set up in such a way that things get in the way and lots of people have very little time to do anything else.
 
You cannot argue statistics. If people taking anti-psychotics say that since having been on them their life has been better who is to argue that they shouldn't be taking them at all? I mean for Christ's sake let us remember what site we are posting on. There are varying degrees with everything and that should be taken into consideration. However doctors are quick to prescribe so it all boils down to money and happiness.
 
What I meant by arguing statistics is, there are numbers that prove xy&z and in this case xy&z is that there are people who benefit from said medication. That is as far as I went. I didn't go into how many it didn't help. I only meant to stress that it can help and that there are statistics to prove this. So you cannot say that it is all bad.
 
3dmusic said:
Anti-psychotics are a chemical cosh or a chemical lobotomy.
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That is a wonderful opinion but it is not a fact. Can some APs induce anhedonia, which could possibly resemble a lobotomy-like state? Yes. I experienced severe anhedonia as a result of risperidone shots....lasted over a year after quitting the shots and going back on a pill. The condition, however, was not permanent. Not to say that I am the same person I was before because I'm not. But after being off risperdal for 7 years (and on something else) I can now laugh at jokes and become sexually aroused. Still haven't been able to cry but I was never much for crying anyways.

My point is that a lobotomy is permanent. When the right AP at the right dose can be found for a person, there is a great chance that the bad side-effects experienced from previous drugs will eventually fade away and they can look forward to a new life. NOT the same life they had before but a new one. I am living proof of this.

3dmusic said:
But pills are not the real answer are they?
I'm no professional and I am sure the medics mean well and think they are helping, but what we need is a real shake up of the system and a total change.

RD Laing listened to his schizophrenic patients and the content of the seemingly incoherent material that was coming out of them.
This material was the patient subconscious which had spilled over into the conscious and needed to be dealt with, in order for the patient to gradually return to a better state.
Schizophrenics need a lot of time and the modern medical profession does not have that time.
Neither do the friends and family of the schizophrenic, because life is set up in such a way that things get in the way and lots of people have very little time to do anything else.
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I agree that the system needs a change. My state is ranked like 48th out of 50 states in quality of mental health care. And still, the system currently in place worked for me. You're correct that schizophrenics need time and society does not allow for that.

What sort of change are you proposing? You have spent a lot of effort poking holes in our arguments without expressing how your system is better.

Bob Funkhouse said:
I agree with what you're saying about using anti psychotics and pills. They really can work to relieve and help (not cure)- I've no doubt of this.

But curing mental health problems cannot be done fully with meds and is very naive to think this is the case. The mental health system is not adequate and the way society functions unfortunately does not allow mental health problems to be treated sufficiently- too many people and not enough time and money. Though it could be argued if more time and money was spent at the early stages of assessment people could be helped a hell of a lot quicker and even cheaper in the long run.



Oh and you most definitely can argue statistics. Easy to manipulate figures to suit ones agenda.
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Yeh, I think the mental health system you all dream of is utopian....an ideal to strive for but which can never exist in reality. You are correct that curing mental health problems cannot be done with meds. That's because there is no cure. All a person can hope for is to find the right pill or combination of pills that will help that person maintain a steady equilibrium. Once my docs found a good pill combo, I am now able to live my life with minimal symptoms as well as minimal side-effects.

Shrooms00087 said:
What I meant by arguing statistics is, there are numbers that prove xy&z and in this case xy&z is that there are people who benefit from said medication. That is as far as I went. I didn't go into how many it didn't help. I only meant to stress that it can help and that there are statistics to prove this. So you cannot say that it is all bad.
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This. In addition to statistics, there is also anecdotal evidence. I've said it a hundred times, anti-psychotics saved my life.
 
I think that schizophrenics need an empathic person with them to allow them to go through their psychosis without being subdued.
That person should be someone they trust and feel safe with.
There should be more hospitals with therapists who actually help instead of administering dodgy pharmecuticals, which just serve to max out the profits of the company owners.
The therapists would need to be specially trained, or if a healed schizophrenic, the better.
Schizophrenics are able to enter altered states of consciousness, but they do not know how to navigate these altererd states, so they end up in a panic and much worse.
In tribal societies, where we were more attuned to nature, schizophrenic people were treated as someone with a special gift.
Not a chance in our society, because special gifts and alterred states are not encouraged in our society, because the powers that be just want humans to work, buy, consume, sleep, shit and TV
This is not practical in our society though, because of the time factor and the rarity of such people in a society like this.
What I think should happen, will never happen in a society like this.
It brainwashes people into thinking schizophrenics are maniacs who go on rampages.
 
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