Psychiatry - a pseudoscience that simply shouldn't exist in today's modern world.

[helohihello]

Since we all have gone to public or private schools, how is that psychiatrists fault that parents are uneducated? Most psychiatrists are not teachers in high schools.

You're not exactly making a really great point here, as a doctor, you don't make money when you prescribe a drug to a patient, you bill the patient's insurance and get a copay whether you do or do not give the person medication.

Uhhhh.... I don't really understand your first paragraph. I'm not saying it's the psychiatrist's fault. I'm saying people are not educated well enough to understand that they don't have a mental disorder, or that their kids are just acting like kids and are not schizophrenic or bi-polar or attention deficit. But whatever.

My point is that pharma pays off doctors to prescribe their drug over other drugs, they give them dinners at seminars and hotel suites with all you can eat buffets and massage parlours. They also advertise on TV saying if you have these, these or these symptoms, get this drug, or "see you doctor" in Australia, since they can't market a drug directly.

So that's how we end up with people taking drugs that they don't need. Because this society thinks drugs are the only answer. A quick fix. When the simple fact is that drugs do nothing productive by themselves, not a single drug. The person needs to do some work too. Drugs just help. If you need them....

 

[pallidamors]

OMGZ my parents made me see therapists

Q_Q

my index finger

your ass

thats what shouldnt exist.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

No I didn't. I said it's more of a pseudo-science when compared to psychiatry.

I've studied for a major in psychology at university and know that it is based on empirical scientific research. Psychiatry is too, but it has a much stronger medical and scientific basis. It takes a lot longer to become a qualified psychiatrist than a psychologist.

Just a side note - it takes slightly longer to become a psychiatrist and both require extensive post-graduate education. For example in Australia, to become a clinical psychologist, you need at least 3 year degree with an APA approved major in psychology, followed by an honours year, followed by a 2 year masters of clinical psychology or 3 year Ph.D. Only a year or so more and you're a fully qualified Dr. and well on the way to specialty in Psychiatry.

 

[n3ophy7e]

in Australia, to become a clinical psychologist, you need at least 3 year degree with an APA approved major in psychology, followed by an honours year, followed by a 2 year masters of clinical psychology or 3 year Ph.D. Only a year or so more and you're a fully qualified Dr.

Correct.
I myself have just started the quest towards this goal
But I'm doing it part-time, which means that it's 6 years to get the degree, then 1 year of honours, then 2 years of masters, then 1 year clinical experience work.

So that is literally 10 years until I'm a psychologist.

I.e. it's not just a certificate you can buy off the net and display in your office

Anyway, back on topic

Uhhhh.... I don't really understand your first paragraph. I'm not saying it's the psychiatrist's fault. I'm saying people are not educated well enough to understand that they don't have a mental disorder, or that their kids are just acting like kids and are not schizophrenic or bi-polar or attention deficit. But whatever.

My point is that pharma pays off doctors to prescribe their drug over other drugs, they give them dinners at seminars and hotel suites with all you can eat buffets and massage parlours. They also advertise on TV saying if you have these, these or these symptoms, get this drug, or "see you doctor" in Australia, since they can't market a drug directly.

So that's how we end up with people taking drugs that they don't need. Because this society thinks drugs are the only answer. A quick fix. When the simple fact is that drugs do nothing productive by themselves, not a single drug. The person needs to do some work too. Drugs just help. If you need them....

I definitely see your point, but I have to disagree.

Don't you think that if companies were allowed to market their anti-psychotic or anti-depressant medications on TV, that we would have a sharp increase in self-diagnosis, and therefore a sharp increase in unnecessary/over-medication??

It sounds like you or someone you know may have had a bad experience with a doctor prescribing you something you didn't need, but I've gotta say, doctors like that would be the vast minority.

The majority of them make the best diagnosis within their knowledge and means. If someone is misdiagnosed, I would imagine that most of the time that could be attributed to a lack of information given to the doctor, a lack of knowledge on the doctor's part about that particular condition (totally the doctor's fault, they should keep on top of new/breakthrough information), or simply because of the ambiguity of so many psychological disorders.

Also, I think if you actually speak to a lot of medical professionals, they will tell you that the pharmaceutical companies bribery methods of "wining and dining" their clients can actually deter them from prescribing their products a lof of the time. A lot of doctors prefer to make their own educated choices about the meds and brands that they are going to recommend. And anyway, a lot of the time the wining and dining occurs for products that have direct competitors, e.g. a brand-name medication and it's generic brand, i.e. exactly the same drug but a different company. This doesn't actually promote the doctor to prescribe MORE of that drug, just to go with one company's product or the other.
Although I can totally understand how it could be misconstrued that they're bribing the doctors to prescribe their drugs more often than necessary.

 

[Dr Pepper]

My girlfriends cousin died and her ex had broken up with her, so naturally she had a case of the blues. Mom takes her to a psychiatrist who proceeds to put her on ssri's. When they dont do shit but cause suicidal intentions/thoughts, its because the dosage is too low. So she increases and increases with no end in sight. Luckily i met her before it was all over. I helped her taper off the ssri's, which had been changed to snri's (cymbalta). She got brain zaps and all that.
She's happier now that she's ever been before, and her psych wants her back on meds. Every time she's talked to her psych since getting off meds, she tries to convince my gf that she has a chemical inbalance and is UNSTABLE and shit, but my gf now understands their is nothing wrong with her, nomatter how hard the fraudulent psych tries to convince her of it. She probably misses the $ she would rape out of my gf's family with the weekly visits, since she plain doesnt need them anymore. It saddens me that this kind of person is allowed to perscribe medication. My heart goes out to her other patients. Needless to say my gf will never be going back. Shit like this happens all the time ime, and OBVIOUSLY psychiatry helps some people, but i think a vast majority of the shit they do is in violation of the hippocratic oath. Their patients might end up without the sadness, but at what cost? Fried brains, no empathy/emotion, and the whole time they're funding the sick institution that got them that way.
Disgusting.

 

[n3ophy7e]

My girlfriends cousin died and her ex had broken up with her, so naturally she had a case of the blues. Mom takes her to a psychiatrist who proceeds to put her on ssri's. When they dont do shit but cause suicidal intentions/thoughts, its because the dosage is too low. So she increases and increases with no end in sight. Luckily i met her before it was all over. I helped her taper off the ssri's, which had been changed to snri's (cymbalta). She got brain zaps and all that.
She's happier now that she's ever been before, and her psych wants her back on meds. Every time she's talked to her psych since getting off meds, she tries to convince my gf that she has a chemical inbalance and is UNSTABLE and shit, but my gf now understands their is nothing wrong with her, nomatter how hard the fraudulent psych tries to convince her of it. She probably misses the $ she would rape out of my gf's family with the weekly visits, since she plain doesnt need them anymore. It saddens me that this kind of person is allowed to perscribe medication. My heart goes out to her other patients. Needless to say my gf will never be going back. Shit like this happens all the time ime, and OBVIOUSLY psychiatry helps some people, but i think a vast majority of the shit they do is in violation of the hippocratic oath. Their patients might end up without the sadness, but at what cost? Fried brains, no empathy/emotion, and the whole time they're funding the sick institution that got them that way.
Disgusting.

I'm sorry to hear your girlfriend was mis-medicated, but good on her for NOT succumbing to the psych's med suggestions! That shows great strength on your girlfriend's part.

When you say that "shit like this happens all the time", have you had many bad experiences with psychiatrists?? Or are you just going by what's been said in this thread, or perhaps what your friends and family have experienced with psychiatrists? I'm not trying to challenge you, because I completely agree with you that your girlfriend's psychiatrist was way out of line with her treatment. But what evidence do you have to say that the "vast majority" of psychs treatment methods is unethical?

 

[Dr Pepper]

Unfortunately she had succumbed and it wasn't until i met her and educated her on the matter that she made the decision to quit them. Like i said she was young and distressed at the time, and everyone was telling her something was wrong with her because she didnt have the coping skills to deal with and escape her depression, leading her to blindly follow the advice of those who she thought new best for her. Good life lesson though. I guess i have a bit of personal biased toward the matter, and when i say "all the time" i meant family/friends whose horror stories i've heard. It makes sense that i'd get alot more feedback from those people than people whose treatment is working, since they have no reason to complain and most people would prefer not to expose a psychiatric illness. So i retract that comment on the basis that i have no evidence to back it up and therefore no way to know if its true or not. And i was fuming a little earlier, now that i think about it i'm quite certain it was way out of line to say "the vast majority". "A significant portion from my experience" would have been better wording...

 

[Free]

AGREED, psychiatry in it's current form is a serious danger to human beings.

i can imagine the scholars of the future looking back on this era with particular pity and disgust(unless of course they are all taking their SSRIs as prescribed.)

 

[brian-amp]

You're not qualified to say what someone needs.

Captain Heroin

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that almost parallel exactly what I just got done saying?
When I ask her why she's taking such a big dose she throws her arms up and says "thats what the doctor prescribes me". It's pathetic cause' she does'nt know any better. She does'nt even have a physicians desk reference.

I see and hear all the time in the media and on the street through casual conversations people that need to take responsability for themselves as they dont know shit except for the other guys research.

Brian-Amp

Captain Heroin, you're the one stepping outside MY equation. Please demonstrate some brains and do your own work instead of checking my credentials. Even an idiot can identify some well thought out and placed logic.

 

[brian-amp]

When the simple fact is that drugs do nothing productive by themselves, not a single drug. The person needs to do some work too. Drugs just help. If you need them....

helohihello

Thats a quotable quote. I'm surprised noone has hit on that drug therapy is just that, drug therapy. In my case, I was diagnosed with "tempoary psychosis due to street drug abuse" and I think it was spot on, I've even quit taking one heavy duty med and just take a mood stabalizer. The psyche has always been approachable and prescribes me whatever I want. Adderall, ritalin, dexarine, klonopin, nuerotin, he's a script writing bum. They have a 6 month waiting list for a counseler so I looked up others cognitive behavioral therapy online and choose to do some reading comprehesion, math and physical fitness. A heat stroke is no joke. It was a bother to even look at myself in the mirror, and forget about keeping eye contact with other people. Making whole coherent sentences was difficult also.

I'm surprised noone has a horror story how a "diagnosis" from a psyche can hurt you. Just yesterday I was turned down from a drug rehab program. That means that not one of the three outpatient drug rehabs in my county will except me cause' I recently got booted out of county jail and sent to a forensic hospital for observation for acting wild in jail. The forensic hopsital is a serious place with concertina wire around it and big keys that unlock the doors and alot of head counts. And every 30 ft. in the halls they have red emergancy phones to sound the alarms when a fight or an attack on the guards break out. The redneck assholes let fights continue cause' they dont want any beefs lasting. Anyways in the forensic hospital I acted like a jerk and attacked the psychiatrist twice and when I found out he had given me a paranoid szysophrenic diagnosis I begged him to change it in fear of the reprocussions. That happened two months ago and I got released from jail and then missed an appointment with my regular psyche cause' of a snow storm........the pysche who has given me a "drug addict" diagnosis since 2003. I have been to the lock up psyche ward about 30 times for threatening my father the guys a violent felon with handgun beefs and I was living with him, and he was real fond of calling the sheriffs and lying to them in order to get me kicked out of his house.
I made the mistake of being honest with the drug rehab cause' they have a MICA program "mental illness chem. addicted" that includes acuepuncture. Has anyone had a experience like this. I want to follow up on this cause' it's BS.

My first couple of hours at the forensic hospital I spent screaming insults at the guards and then they made me strip and two burly guards each took a leg and arm where they then tossed me head first into the shower and I hit my head and passed out. After a couple minutes passed they made me get into a set of grimy clothes and walk down a hall and into an emergency stairwell. One guard choked me and pushed me backwards so I was hanging backwards off the railing a good ways. That afternoon the psyche prescribed me a ton of meds and I slipped in and out of conciousness for the next three days where finally the nurse saw how fucked I was and refused to give me any more meds. After that an amatuer bodybuilder guard befriended me and I got healthier and mentaly stable before being released. The place I was being held at is a mental ward for all the prisoners from The State of New York Correctional Facility that need psychiatrict help, county jails too. Theres prisoners there that are doing 10 years, 20 years and even lifers. I'm not a punk or a snitch for talking about this place, I'm just trying to highlight the barbaric and evil psychiatric industry.

 

[aCzarnecki]

^^

What kind of treatment did u expect with all the shit u caused?

 

[Bavanai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

pretty solid proof that psychiatry isn't a true measurable science.

 

[Cohesion]

I respect psychologists and psychiatrists for two reasons. 1) I'm interested in their fields of study, and 2) they have helped to treat my own personal mental issues. They are totally different to cops, judges, probation officer's, etc.



Freud is sooooo early 20th century.

The early 20th century called, they want their pun back

 

[PhrostByte]

As someone with an American psychology degree but also born in Eastern Europe.. let me tell ya man, those governments suck (medical complex is part of the government in Europe). I don't know about Romania but I know it does in Ukraine and Russia... come to the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the EU, or Israel.. they'll actually treat you like a person.

 

[villian]

I agree that psychiatry is a pseudoscience but it has definitely helped (and saved) many lives.

Just because it isn't provable doesn't mean it is not beneficial.

I don't believe anyone should be fed psych medications against their will.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

I completely disagree with OP simply because he's talking about something that doesn't exist anymore.
The men in white coats coming to take you away doesn't happen today. Electroshock or lobotomies don't get practiced today. No one can be forcibly admitted to the psyche ward NEARLY as easily as they could 50 or so years ago.
Also the fact that you think Bipolar is simply just a certain type of personality is completely ignorant.
You're dragging up strawmen all over the place so it's hard to take your points seriously.
I do agree that over-prescription is a very bad thing, and I totally disagree with the feeling that you should just trust a doctor no matter what, and I'm not saying that psychiatrists are perfect people. I also don't believe that depression can be cured by a pill if the person's life genuinely sucks.
I have my complaints about the two different psychiatrists I've seen so far, one of which is also my suboxone doctor (not a half-bad form of therapy if I do say so myself), but maybe you'll learn with age that your black and white view of reality is very typical of a young or inexperienced person and if you find yourself getting so worked up that you feel the need to vent, rant, and criticize this so harshly, you should really try to take the time to see it from a different perspective.

I would rather have my Suboxone Doctor drive a nice Lexus, BMW, Mercedes Benz, or Porche. Good for him for helping me out. Why should he have to waste profit money on drug tests?

I believe people have many reasons not to reveal drug use to a dotor, especially when many drugs are illegal, and many drugs will not be discovered with a simple 5 panel UA.

Well, if you get prescribed suboxone then it is because you have a drug problem.
The only time people lie about their drug use to a doctor is so they can continue it with impunity. It also happens that lying about drug use is one of the first landmarks a person crosses when traveling down the road of addiction.
A drug test in combination with suboxone maintenance is just insurance that the main symptom of the mental illness that is drug abuse is getting treated, that being the injestion of drugs for purposes other than medical needs.

So why would a doctor drug test? To make his treatment plan effective, otherwise what's the point of an ineffectual treatment plan? THAT would be a waste of money and time.

 

[Bavanai]

^and what about the arguments you don't consider strawmen? simply put, the medicalization of human personality variation, emotions and non-conformism impulses. it's still not right to get institutionalized because you deal with your issues somehow differently than other people, and not be allowed to leave the institute (basically, you get imprisoned) until you fulfill the doctor's confirmation bias that you are mentally sick and you're getting better? that's not right.

Also the fact that you think Bipolar is simply just a certain type of personality is completely ignorant.

Can you prove empirically that such a "disorder" exists? there's NOTHING ignorant about not believing what is unsupported by empirical proof, it's quite the opposite. how did i get magically cured of borderline disorder only after stopping believing that such a thing exists?

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^Where is your empirical proof that you were "cured" after you stopped believing that it exists?

You are exaggerating a lot of aspects of this and stripping them from their context. People are not institutionalized simply because they deal with issues differently; there has to be clinically significant distress caused by their behaviors. At least in the US, no one receives forced hospitalization unless they are a demonstrable danger to themselves or others and even then, its usually only for a 72 hour period for monitoring and evaluation.

I largely agree with you that people are 'medicalizing' too much of the human experience but I think you're taking it a bit too far and mischracterizing the field to demonstrate your views.

A lot of medicine is poorly understood because in its current form, the field has really only existed for a couple generations. It will take a lot of time and technology-advancement to further understand the workings of the body and mind but that does not mean that the field of psychiatry qualifies as pseudoscientific.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Well, if you get prescribed suboxone then it is because you have a drug problem.
The only time people lie about their drug use to a doctor is so they can continue it with impunity. It also happens that lying about drug use is one of the first landmarks a person crosses when traveling down the road of addiction.
A drug test in combination with suboxone maintenance is just insurance that the main symptom of the mental illness that is drug abuse is getting treated, that being the injestion of drugs for purposes other than medical needs.

So why would a doctor drug test? To make his treatment plan effective, otherwise what's the point of an ineffectual treatment plan? THAT would be a waste of money and time.

"Have" and "had" a drug problem are different.

Suboxone can be prescribed for other things other than opiate addiction/maintenance, it's just not typical that it happens this way.

Suboxone isn't treatment for poly drug addiction, just for opiate use. However, Suboxone doctors will drug test people to make sure they aren't doing a plethora of drugs. This is moronic in nature. People are still going to want to use the drugs they aren't addicted to (that aren't full agonist opiates), that they were using before their heroin addiction, along with Suboxone.

It isn't a Suboxone doctor's position to dictate if someone trying to quit using heroin should be using other drugs; that is the individual's prerogative.

A drug test can be incorrect; there are false positives. Also, there are even false negatives. Sometimes people have a prescription for a benzo while on Suboxone maintenance, and when they don't test positive for a benzo on their piss test, the Suboxone doctor thinks they are diverting benzos.

However, in all reality, drug tests are very unreliable. If you're telling me a drug test keeps someone clean; it doesn't. People fail drug tests all the time. There are even more people who don't use drugs and most of them do this NOT because they are drug tested, but just because they choose to abstain.

Drug testing IS a waste of time and money! The patient KNOWS what they used before they do the drug test. The patient doesn't need the drug test! It's for the doctor so as to be able to THINK they can tell what drugs you have used. The doctor doesn't need treatment and it's irrelevant what drugs you are using.

If you're using heroin, or opiates, you don't NEED Suboxone so you wouldn't go to a Suboxone doctor. It's counterintuitive.

3 out of 4 people trying to quit tobacco, alcohol, or heroin will likely relapse before 9 months of sobriety. This isn't happening because people aren't getting drug tested often enough, but because some people just aren't ready to quit! Sometimes people need many tries/goes at quitting drugs. Punishing people because they relapsed is counterintuitive to giving them treatment for addiction! Tchort has talked about this a lot.

Finally, drug tests are unreliable not only because of false positives AND false negatives (if you don't think they happen, ask qwe, he consistently tested negative for benzos by his Suboxone doctor), but because patients consistently use other people's urine, or find other ways to get around a drug test.

Can you prove empirically that such a "disorder" exists?

Can you prove empirically you exist to me, over Bluelight? No, no you cannot. It's an internet forum.

If you don't like the country you live in, move. It really is that simple.

 

[paranoid android]

^and what about the arguments you don't consider strawmen? simply put, the medicalization of human personality variation, emotions and non-conformism impulses. it's still not right to get institutionalized because you deal with your issues somehow differently than other people, and not be allowed to leave the institute (basically, you get imprisoned) until you fulfill the doctor's confirmation bias that you are mentally sick and you're getting better? that's not right.


Can you prove empirically that such a "disorder" exists? there's NOTHING ignorant about not believing what is unsupported by empirical proof, it's quite the opposite. how did i get magically cured of borderline disorder only after stopping believing that such a thing exists?

How the hell can you believe that disorders such as bipolar and even depression do not exist? Since i suffer from bipolar disorder i can most certainly tell you that it is very fucking real. I have had some sort of mood disorder since i can remember and hell i thought of suicide back as far as 11 years old which is about as far as my memories as to how i felt go back. How else besides medication am i supposed to deal with my issues may i ask? Freak out on everyone, punch walls until my knuckles have the skin hanging off them, cut myself or burn myself, take any drug that i can get my hands on no matter how bad it is for me, drink myself blind, spend money on retarded bullsit, fuck anything that movies, etc. Those are the common coping behaviours i get when my bipolar disorder is not controlled so does all that sound healthy to you.

Since i was exhibiting these behaviours long before i even wanted to admit that i had anxiety much less bipolar disorder i don't think just not believing that i have bipolar disorder is going to help much. In fact many people with bipolar disorder run into trouble because they think they are better and go off the meds that where making them more stable. Then they end up going manic, mixed state or just going into a old fashioned pit of despair and they have to start all over again getting stabilized with the meds. Unfortunatly i have had this happen to me as well and it's never turned out good yet.

As for getting institutionalized i didnt even get instituationalized after i told the doctor that i was suicidal for fuck sakes . It varies province to province here in Canada but your not going to get put in the psych ward unless they have reason to think you are going to hurt yourself or someone else. As was in my case even then i couldnt get put in the psych ward here.

I have alot of problems with psychiatry believe me but it mostly has to do with the fact that psychiatrists don't do nearly enough to help people and often just slap whatever label is fashionable on them or a convienant one where they can get rid of you easy because it can't be treated with meds which is what happened to me once when a shrink suddenly changed my diagnoses from bipolar NOS to narcissistic personality so she could just get rid of me. I laugh about it now and how much she really did not like me at all and how snobby she acted towards me but she fucked up my life for over a year and cost me a hell of alot due to her pettyness and incompetance.

I know so many people who have had to go through so much suffering because the psychiatrists could not just listen to them and ask them how they where feeling instead of telling them how they where or bye just outright dismissing their problems altogether. I know people that have been institutionalized when they shouldnt have been but it goes both ways. The same deal goes for meds i know plenty of people that where either undermedicated or treated with the wrong meds or on the flipside way overmedicated for a condition they do not even have.

Oh by the way did you ever maybe think that you just didnt have borderline personality disorder? Just because you may not have it does not mean borderline does not exist you know?