Cane2theLeft
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Of course if YOU are using them solely to acquire drugs you are going to see them only in that light.
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Psychiatry - a pseudoscience that simply shouldn't exist in today's modern world.
- Thread starter Bavanai
- Start date
Of course if YOU are using them solely to acquire drugs you are going to see them only in that light.
Well that could be said for thousands of people [squared] that most likely feel the same way. I just used them to treat symptoms of drug use, anxiety, depression, compulsion to use, to pick me up. So I was actually treating psych disorders I just knew what drugs I wanted and knew that I would get. Maybee I was just convincing :/ but its obvious a vast portion of the public just uses psych docs to score.
Peace,
Seedless
Peace,
Seedless
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I whole-heartedly agree Ocean!
Instead of an age limit, it would be better to leave the power in the hands of parents, in my opinion. Yes, there are always going to be irresponsible parents, that is a character flaw in my opinion.
ADD/ADHD is passed on through families, so when one or two parents suffer from ADD/ADHD, it is very likely that their children may have it. It needs to be considered that these parents are going to most likely be able to identify in their children when they started struggling with the disorder, possibly when they weren't even able to do it for themselves at a young age.
Who's to say a 7 year old shouldn't be taking amphetamine if they have very well documented ADD/ADHD? I'm not saying if your kid misbehaves put them on pills, that's a horrible way to look at it. ADD/ADHD is simply not misbehaving.
No offense Ocean as I'm sure you have good intentions with this part, but UA's are not cheap, and I'm not paying for it. All doctors and psychiatrists I have seen do not drug test as it is in their best interest (maximum profit) to not do so. I would rather have my Suboxone Doctor drive a nice Lexus, BMW, Mercedes Benz, or Porche. Good for him for helping me out. Why should he have to waste profit money on drug tests?
I believe people have many reasons not to reveal drug use to a dotor, especially when many drugs are illegal, and many drugs will not be discovered with a simple 5 panel UA.
Not to mention there are false positives and false negatives, which complicate the matter even further.
What if you get a false positive for a drug you haven't taken? The doctor won't want to give you meds, is that fair? I don't think so.
Adults are intelligent enough to tell a doctor they are using drugs or not for their own reasons. If they make the wrong mistake by deciding to not disclose it and it is critical for the doctor to know, it is on their shoulders (which is why confidentiality is a great thing).
Just my 2 cents.
Cane2theLeft
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That last statement seems to be a bit overstated, I don't know if you can qualify that the portion of people using psychs to "score" is that vast. Most of the people I know have no desire to abuse their psych meds and I imagine that's opposite for you and this shapes our respective understanding.
yeah you might be right but fuck scripts take up a large portion of the addiction problem in itself. Its a dragon eating its tail. In my personal view legally scripted meds have exploded on the drug [black] markets in the last 10 years. glass of wine, a valium, a joint, a fuck, dope blast, and thats the pharm industry the one that specifically produce drugs for consumption.
Just look at the bullshit of adult ADHD, scam get on some new over price extended release formula or just geek you out. Sell sell sell, than maybe try to help seriously. Maybee they dont abuse them but you agree they use them.
Peace,
Seedless
Just look at the bullshit of adult ADHD, scam get on some new over price extended release formula or just geek you out. Sell sell sell, than maybe try to help seriously. Maybee they dont abuse them but you agree they use them.
Peace,
Seedless
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I know someone who went to doctors for pills but not psychiatrists. They would go to PCP's. But they lost their insurance so they are out! Perfect karma, I think IMO.
I most certainly do not go to doctors for "getting pills" for anything less than verifiable medical conditions. I have severe insomnia, and I had a horrible heroin habit. I'm doing much better with a hypnotic benzodiazepine and Suboxone Maintenance Therapy.
Using drugs isn't abusing them. There's responsible use, and then excessive abuse.
Cane2theLeft
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I definitely agree that legal scripts do constitute a large portion of the drug black markets these days but that doesn't say anything about the intent with which people seek help from psychiatrists.
As I've stated earlier, corporate interests certainly add a problematic layer to health care (ESPECIALLY mental health care) and unethical doctors certainly contribute to illegal availability of prescription medications however none of these factors make psychiatry a pseudoscience (OP's claim) or discredit the intention of most of the mental health professionals out there.
But that goes for all parts of life problematic layers, doctors, relief, fuck maybe I am way out there and cant fathom the ultimate goal besides getting better would be the pills that help you get better. Shit even my mother and grandmother medicate for some thing or another. I admit I was a drug addict for a long period but pharm meds just seem to be the end all of illicit addictions. I dont have a problem with that at all, but it seems to go against my grain in some strange fashion.
I wish things were easier, clear cut, utopic and perhaps someday soon I will see it. Almost like mom and pop pharmacys getting takin out by big brand stores. Govt. moving in [as usual] soon the doctors will get takin out. Some eye doctors are starting or have been having trouble keeping up. Im rambling
Peace,
Seedless
I wish things were easier, clear cut, utopic and perhaps someday soon I will see it. Almost like mom and pop pharmacys getting takin out by big brand stores. Govt. moving in [as usual] soon the doctors will get takin out. Some eye doctors are starting or have been having trouble keeping up. Im rambling
Peace,
Seedless
Labels labels layers of problems.
I think we should go back to the practice of witch doctors and ritual of life, I personally think people are losing the touch with there spiritual being and its obvious looking at society, that should be the new medicine.
I agree psych isnt a pseudoscience but a cog in modern society that is broken.
Peace,
Seedless
{edit whoops thought I lost a post and than retyped it from what I thought I was talking about]
Cane2theLeft
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This is a very profound statement and I agree... when so much of our modern society is broken, every aspect is going to be tainted to some extent and regardless where you see the break stemming from (for me it usually boils down to putting profits before people), one can not deny that the impact of these problems pervades nearly everything in our societies.
Winding Vines
Bluelighter
I have several opinions on psychiatry. Dually from my own personal experiences.
I don't feel psychiatrists look at a person's mental health holistically. Now I say holistically in a broad sense. Nutrition, endocrine, and behavioral modification.
I saw a psychiatrist about two months ago, as my sleep rhythm is completely switched. I thought it would be well advised to do a full endocrine panel, as my sleeping habits were out of control. I did experience general anxiety and depression, but it was exacerbated by an unusual sleeping schedule. I was prescribed prozac and ambient. I filled both prescriptions, and only used the ambient, though the experiment was fruitless.
I feel many doctors, regardless if they are psychiatrists, fail to hear their patients if they are obviously organized in speech and educated. My psychiatrist did not seem receptive or contemplative to my comments about what I speculated or drew of concern; which pertained to the length of time my issues had taken place prior.
With this valuable piece of information, a qualified person may consider that this is systemic issue rather then conditional, circumstantial or "generally imbalanced".
Why not do blood panels to see how my body is doing nutritionally and hormonally?
I explained my thyroid is slightly under-active, and I noted a calcified node on my parathyroid.
I did inquired about CBT, he looked at me strangly.
I requested his professional opinion, recommending a therapist. The doctor welcomed my question with a shrug and "we have several psychologists and counselors in this office, just grab a card when you leave".
I don't expect a doctor or any health professional, for that matter, to be the savior to all of my needs. Though, believing it is reasonable to expect a level of professionalism, consideration, and responsiveness, that would be appropriate to such an expensive practitioner.
Unfortunately, the situation I experienced is little different from several of my family members. I think of my father, whom was a wonderful experiment to several doctors 10 years ago; he became psychotic, misdiagnosed and over medicated.
It would be smart to call my psychiatrist to let him know my frustrations. Though since I no longer use the ambient, and never used the prozac, I doubt he would take a moment to speak over the phone. I've found better results by exercising and changing my diet. Though others may need more then slight modifications to alleviate their problems.
What I observed was either a reluctancy or an apathy to advise on other avenues beyond medication (e.g. behavioral modification)
Like a person with attention issues, the attention issues could be linked to several reasons, before they need an antidepressant or stimulant like drug. Albeit endocrine related, heavy metal, allergies etc.
Medicine should be about the entire person, not what chemical can pro-temp modify the problem.
I don't feel psychiatrists look at a person's mental health holistically. Now I say holistically in a broad sense. Nutrition, endocrine, and behavioral modification.
I saw a psychiatrist about two months ago, as my sleep rhythm is completely switched. I thought it would be well advised to do a full endocrine panel, as my sleeping habits were out of control. I did experience general anxiety and depression, but it was exacerbated by an unusual sleeping schedule. I was prescribed prozac and ambient. I filled both prescriptions, and only used the ambient, though the experiment was fruitless.
I feel many doctors, regardless if they are psychiatrists, fail to hear their patients if they are obviously organized in speech and educated. My psychiatrist did not seem receptive or contemplative to my comments about what I speculated or drew of concern; which pertained to the length of time my issues had taken place prior.
With this valuable piece of information, a qualified person may consider that this is systemic issue rather then conditional, circumstantial or "generally imbalanced".
Why not do blood panels to see how my body is doing nutritionally and hormonally?
I explained my thyroid is slightly under-active, and I noted a calcified node on my parathyroid.
I did inquired about CBT, he looked at me strangly.
I requested his professional opinion, recommending a therapist. The doctor welcomed my question with a shrug and "we have several psychologists and counselors in this office, just grab a card when you leave".
I don't expect a doctor or any health professional, for that matter, to be the savior to all of my needs. Though, believing it is reasonable to expect a level of professionalism, consideration, and responsiveness, that would be appropriate to such an expensive practitioner.
Unfortunately, the situation I experienced is little different from several of my family members. I think of my father, whom was a wonderful experiment to several doctors 10 years ago; he became psychotic, misdiagnosed and over medicated.
It would be smart to call my psychiatrist to let him know my frustrations. Though since I no longer use the ambient, and never used the prozac, I doubt he would take a moment to speak over the phone. I've found better results by exercising and changing my diet. Though others may need more then slight modifications to alleviate their problems.
What I observed was either a reluctancy or an apathy to advise on other avenues beyond medication (e.g. behavioral modification)
Like a person with attention issues, the attention issues could be linked to several reasons, before they need an antidepressant or stimulant like drug. Albeit endocrine related, heavy metal, allergies etc.
Medicine should be about the entire person, not what chemical can pro-temp modify the problem.
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Cane2theLeft
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^thank you for sharing your story. Above anything I've read in here so far this seems to capture my own lacking experiences I've had with medical professionals.
A McDiagnosis, McTreatment and no follow-up will never be sufficient to address complex medical and emotional problems and people will never get well by throwing different pills at them until one sticks, you have to see their situation as a person holistically.
Very well articulated, Winding.
A McDiagnosis, McTreatment and no follow-up will never be sufficient to address complex medical and emotional problems and people will never get well by throwing different pills at them until one sticks, you have to see their situation as a person holistically.
Very well articulated, Winding.
ocean
Bluelight Crew
Actually it is in the best interest of both patient and Dr.to make sure that the patient is not using drugs.
Say, for example, someone is doing meth- they go to a Dr. complaining of hallucinations, anxiety etc. etc. and they are put on heavy duty meds- like anti-psychotics and benzos- When REALLY the patient should stop abusing meth and see what changes in behavior happen. If they are STILL having those issues- then be medicated.
UA's are not too expensive-considering you are paying 200 bucks to see a psych for an hour (probably 2 times a month or more), they can certainly take the 25-75 dollars out of that to purchase drug tests (which really they could get cheaper if bought in bulk)
It benefits the Dr. b/c they do take an oath to do no harm and if the patient doesn't actually have a mental disorder and the Dr. medicates, then it is harming the patient.
I am not saying action like- throwing the patient in rehab- should be taken if it came up positive.....but the patient should not be playing around with the chemicals in their brain anymore than they are by taking other drugs.....(I hope this makes sense.)
I imagine this would violate some sort of privacy law or something- or Psych.'s would probably already be doing it. But if I were a psych I would not want to prescribe without seeing the full picture.......and I don't really trust that a person tell me the truth on whether or not they are using. We see threads started on here all the time about whether or not to be honest about abusing drugs to Dr.'s- Its not a matter of being adult or intelligent enough- Intelligent people lie too...... I don't actually think Dr.'s will start using drug tests- or age limits (especially since many places are funded by drug companies) but I think it would save a lot of people from suffering through side effects of medications they don't actually need to be on....
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
true, those situations happen a lot IME. and those antipsychotics, and other mental health meds are too, and if they arent sample boxes given to the patient at a clinic, then the state pays for it, risperdol for example is close to $400 for 30 pills, i took that for years. i was on a mass of coke, and E + other research chems, i told my psych about ocassional E use, and he said to drink water, and be careful if you must.. but i was doing more then a bean or two a month haha.
im still schizoeffective haha, but im not wild on coke and other shit, and that makes a biiiig difference in my over all general behaviour. i take 4-6mgs klonopin and 1600mgs lithium to maintain my shizo. and bi polar, n/m physichal health meds... the risperdol i believe gave me hypoglycemia and unnoticed by my self involentary movements. taking antipsychs later while in psychosis, made it much worse haha, so after several hellish trials, the kpin and lithium keeps me cool, unagoraphobic, more rational, no intrusive thoughts, some mania, no internal type depression, no mixed states, minimal hallucinations, easier to rationalize odd thoughts and hallucinations, less agoraphobia.
shwew.. yeah
im still schizoeffective haha, but im not wild on coke and other shit, and that makes a biiiig difference in my over all general behaviour. i take 4-6mgs klonopin and 1600mgs lithium to maintain my shizo. and bi polar, n/m physichal health meds... the risperdol i believe gave me hypoglycemia and unnoticed by my self involentary movements. taking antipsychs later while in psychosis, made it much worse haha, so after several hellish trials, the kpin and lithium keeps me cool, unagoraphobic, more rational, no intrusive thoughts, some mania, no internal type depression, no mixed states, minimal hallucinations, easier to rationalize odd thoughts and hallucinations, less agoraphobia.
shwew.. yeah
Cane2theLeft
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@Ocean
You raise some great points and I largely agree.
@C.H
If cost is your primary objection, think of it this way- if the patient is hallucinating from coke for example and doesn't disclose their use and the doctor puts them on some expensive new atypical (very likely) that is more expensive then a $10-$70 piss test (variability depending on if its sent to a lab).
It still is a dicey situation though, it is absolutely in the best interest of the patient to fully disclose ASSUMING the doctor will be fair and treat them with compassion. We can't deny that some professionals are going to be prejudicial toward someone who drops dirty.
You raise some great points and I largely agree.
@C.H
If cost is your primary objection, think of it this way- if the patient is hallucinating from coke for example and doesn't disclose their use and the doctor puts them on some expensive new atypical (very likely) that is more expensive then a $10-$70 piss test (variability depending on if its sent to a lab).
It still is a dicey situation though, it is absolutely in the best interest of the patient to fully disclose ASSUMING the doctor will be fair and treat them with compassion. We can't deny that some professionals are going to be prejudicial toward someone who drops dirty.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
You're right Ocean, in that case it would be imperative. However, the adult should be honest, since it is known amphetamines (meth especially) can cause hallucinations. I also think most meth users are aware of this.
In the case of hallucinations, UA is an acceptable option. But as a precursor to being prescribed drugs for legitimate insomnia or anxiety when the person isn't taking anything other than prescription medications, I don't see the point.
Also if you're hallucinating it's better to go to a hospital than a doctor's office, so they'll do more than just drug test you.
Then the psychiatrist's service costs me extra money, and I'd rather go see someone who charges less than more.
You are right, however even if the person isn't on drugs, they may have an adverse reaction to the medication. Harm is sometimes done in medicine, mostly accidentally. You can't predict every individual outcome.
The problem to that is to legalize drugs, so you have nothing to fear by telling a doctor you use drugs. Using notoriously unreliable urine analysis as a precursor to getting prescription medication isn't a positive step in the right direction in my opinion.
You have good ideas for this Ocean, you are looking out ultimately for the patient's health and well being. I just couldn't afford to go to doctors if they all started charging $40 to $70 more than normal, or if they did, my insurance rate would probably increase.
Well you see the other problem about people lying to doctors - people are often afraid they'll be unfairly judged for being a drug user, even if they're no longer using or addicted/dependent.
If many doctors didn't have a stigma against drug addicted people, drug addicts wouldn't lie about what they're taking.
I agree Cane! I would have no problem disclosing my previous heroin dependency and that I'm currently on Suboxone to doctors, except this hasn't gotten me anywhere positive.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I find it's easier not to mention drug abuse, that way doctors actually trust you.
aCzarnecki
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omg..not ur nonsense again..about a year ago or so, I recall ur ridiculous threads about scientology where u were making no sense and acted like a complete nut job. U ask for people to be polite yet u call us idiots?
lol, perhaps u should keep ur scientology bs out of this thread..
8)
i thought i explained earlier. my view is largely based on the fact that i believe psychiatric drugs are harmful and their effectiveness questionable, and by extension, psychiatrists (since they mainly operate by prescribing drugs). i don't know how i can convincingly demonstrate my opinion that (i will change my statement to the following) "psychiatric drugs, as they are currently being used, do more harm than good overall" because i haven't gathered all the studies and information together properly to support this view. maybe i can call it a hypothesis rather than an opinion. either way, i believe it is true and don't have many qualms about stating it, even though i haven't collected all the supporting evidence.
if you want more evidence and information however, i suggest reading doctoring the mind: why psychiatric treatments fail by richard bental and your drug may be your problem by peter breggin.
fifleman
Bluelighter
Drugs - substances that simply shouldn't exist in today's modern world.
Welcome to the wishful thinker's club.
Welcome to the wishful thinker's club.
I agree with this.
But keep in mind that all these statements are generalisations. Psychiatrists are humans as well, so it's inevitable that there will be individuals who aren't like the typical "specialist" and ignore factors that aren't within their field of knowledge.
But I must admit, from my experience there does seem to be a lot of demarkation in modern medicine. And this isn't just exclusive to psychiatry, it's across the board of all medical fields. It's such a shame because patients could have such better results if all their individual specialists communicated and worked together to find the best solution!
The 1 psychiatrist I have ever been to was completley fucking hopeless. I honestly believe that he was only there to prescribe me whatever medications I asked for. We had 30 minute sessions, once a fortnight, during which he would ask me 1 or 2 questions about how I was doing, then cut me off mid-sentence and lecture me about all sorts of things that really had no relevance to me and my situation. He would focus on some little thing I mentioned that wasn't really the point of what I said, and talk to me about that for 10 minutes or so. Then before I knew it our session was over and I felt NO better, nor had I gained anything useful from him, except a new prescription for the "next med to try" 8)
Now, I understand and fully accept that this particular guy was just a real jerk, and that he is NOT typical of all psychiatrists in the world. My best friend had a completely opposite experience with her psychiatrist. She had full 1-hour sessions with him once a week, he would listen to her talk and he would guide the discussion in to the areas he thought were more productive to discuss etc. Of course, he also trialled many medications with her until they found the right combo, but he also incorporated therapy in to the sessions. Thousands of studies have shown that psychotherapy plus or minus medication generally results in longer-lasting treatment of psychological problems.
Psychologists on the other hand: I've been to 3 psychologists, and they all helped me massively. Although the last guy was very condescending and made me feel stupid a few times so I stopped seeing him. Perhaps it was just a personality clash, or he was having a bad day or whatever. But to me, psychology was much more beneficial.
I think you and Cane will have to just agree to disagree. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, and we don't have to all agree on everything.
You've both made your points very clear, it's just that you don't agree with each other, and that's fine.
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