Health Psychiatric and psychoanalytical use of psychedelics

[mrcraggles]

swilow

My first experience of Salvia was totally traumatic too lol. I had far too much 10X and did nothing less than absolutely lose it. It was living hell...so I get what you mean on that one!

 

[Dondante]

Well, considering psychiatry has been my intended career path for the last few years (though certainly not definite, otolaryngology is totally fascinating), this is a topic very near and dear to my heart.

I'm quickly approaching a fork in the road as far as my career is concerned as well. One part of me wants to leave open the opportunity to conduct research with psychedelics in the future, but another, which has been winning out recently, is content to relegate psychedelic use and my interest in the human mind to hobby status. There are a number of careers in medicine that I could enjoy, but the lifestyle and scope of practice of both ophthalmology and neurology are enticing. Although I’m confident that I'd be happy doing a number of things, the decision hasn’t gotten any easier. I do realize that it would be a poor decision to go into the field of psychiatry primarily due to interest in doing research with psychedelics. To even begin proposing research projects of this nature would require tenure position and a very open minded institutional review board.

I agree that psychedelics have a number of applications in psychiatry; however, I think the real promise lies in the effects on "psychologically healthy" people. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that the latter will be condoned anytime soon (with the rare exceptions like the Johns Hopkins psilocybin study). As far as applications in psychiatry, depression and PTSD are certainly prime targets. Considering that ketamine has shown a robust therapeutic response in treatment-resistant depression, a point where ECT is the next option, I would hope this is effect is looked into further. I can also see promise in the treatment of drug dependency, but I certainly don’t envision it being a one time treatment. Lastly, I’m curious whether there are any therapeutic effects on people suffering from conversion or somatization disorders.

But the question that is very interesting to me lies within the opposite experience...can massively, unbelievably brilliant psychedelic experiences also lay down some sort of long-lasting 'imprint' (comparable to PTSD in some senses) and in doing so leave a long-lasting 'beautiful' imprint which affects your psychology and behaviour?

Interesting observation … I agree with F&B that these positive imprints are certainly real, but if I had to guess, I’d say it’s likely a separate mechanism rather than the inverse of PTSD. I feel like psychedelics have had a measureable impact on certain emotional set points, but it's hard to tease out exactly what is attributable to psychedelics and what is simply due to maturing and undergoing changes in my life.

 

[mrcraggles]

Dondante

Agreed...it WILL be a seperate mechanism. I just wonder if there are mechanisms in place that would allow for such intensely challenging (in a good way) psychedelic experiences to have a long lasting effect. I really think that this kind of thing needs to be studied in great detail.

 

[swilow]

swilow

My first experience of Salvia was totally traumatic too lol. I had far too much 10X and did nothing less than absolutely lose it. It was living hell...so I get what you mean on that one!

Yeah, see the actual experience consisted of loss of any contact with reality, and encounters with very distinct entites. However, the inablty to remember why I was so fucked was so frightening! I was at my parents house, and just started asking "What the fuck is this? What have You done?". The you in question is nebulous to me, but I guess it was salvia.

 

[Gormur]

And you have it at low dose...to the point that it doesn't have notable psychedelic or visual effects?

And it what way do you think it helps with your problems? Sorry for the questions, I just find it interesting...

there is a definite shift in consciousness (senses are heightened) which after a while you don't notice until you've gone a day without dosing. there's a rare visual here or there. i get the effect of stationary things moving (letters mainly) while i'm sober about once a day tho.

as for sid, it helps me with depression, fatigue, and anxiety..to name a few

it's also on acid that i've written some of my best music. trips are inspiring.

 

[artic]

I think the critical self analysis that you undergo during most psychedelic experiences is an extremely effective theraputic tool. It is also a very natural part of the experience. Although a trip sitter is a good idea for the novice, they are ultimately unnecessary. I think tripping alone is the most useful way to take a psychedelic. This is why psychology/psychiatry will never widely accept the use of psychedelics in therapy, because moderate use of pychedelics in a safe environment could replace conventional therapy for many users. It is threatening. I'll take LSD over pschology/psychiatry anyday, and I don't think I am alone.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I've actually been giving some thought to the PTSD/psychedelics issue as I suffered from PTSD fairly badly after losing my hand at age 13 (about the worst possible age in terms of self image, confidence etc), especially when anything regarding explosions occurred (sudden loud noises or the smell of spent gunpowder were enough to trigger some sort of minor freakout - hard to avoid coming up to Nov 5th in Britain). This lead to me developing a temp fear of going outside for several weeks each year. I dreaded some little fuckwit thinking it funny to 'bait the hippie' by throwing bangers as I was frightened that I'd fall apart, only coming back to myself to find that I'd beaten somebody unconcious or worse. Psychedelics helped me effectiuvely tease apart all the different emotions that were triggered by such things and deal with them separately (trying to deal with them all at once was a non starter, for the reasons described above). This took quite a while - something like 10 years - but eventually I was able to deal with all of the issues with introspection facilitated by psychedelics (the final brakthrough, which was very hard to even get a grip on, finally came to the fore through the use of MET & ketamine, when I was able to relive those actual moments, but analyse them without the overwhelming fear that they normally triggered. Since that time, a couple of years ago, I've even offered to take my nieces to a firework display, something unthinkable bfore I started trying to come to terms with it.

Without the use of psychedelics to enable me to re-experience those events, but with the mind of an adult rather than a 13 year old boy, I'm pretty sure I'd still be an utter quaking mess every Guy Fawkes night.

Of course, being me, I've managed to generate a whole new set of problems (though nowhere near as bad) from my (ab)use of drugs other than psychedelics that I'm only getting arpound to dealing with now; funnily enough, the catalyst for bringing me to the point of dealing with these whole new set was a quite large dose of DOM. Now if I can only keep to a policy of only using psychedelics on occasions I'd possibly come close to being a stable & confident human being...


I'm not holding my breath on that one

 

[Dondante]

^Glad to hear the MET worked so well for you. I knew you'd had a great experience with it, but that's incredible to hear that it was so therapeutic.

Do you think it had much to do with the particular drug, or do you think it was just happenstance?

 

[Delsyd]

damnit why dont i get anything from MET.

F&B, what was your dose and method of administration?
also do you think ketamine played a big role in improving the effects, as it tends to do with most tryptamines?

 

[-neptune-]

Do you think that psychedelics have an application to human psychology and psychiatry?

Like, kyeah.

The psychedelic state lets you step back from whatever issues and examine them more objectively and to potentially rearrange them if used in a proper context. Psychedelic states are a time in which the mind is readily susceptible to psychological remodeling in which behavioral and thought patterns can be analyzed and re-structured.

Personally, I was able to get past a bunch of childhood trauma and fundamentalist evangelical christian programming drilled into my head using psychedelics.


+++
There's tons of work done with psychedelics and psychotherapy.

IE.

Ketamine and Quantum Psychiatry
{ Also, Dr. John Lilly, before he went off the deep-end, also talked about Ketamine and it's meta-programming potential.}


Current FDA approved research to treat PTSD using MDMA


Ibogaine used to treat opiate addiction


///There's also some stuff on MAPS (don't have the link, sorry) mentioning stuff about psilocybin and MDMA used to treat existential anxiety in stage IV cancer patients.

+Historically, MDMA was orginally used in a psychotherapeutic context, in couples therapy.

Additionally, there's were some studies done investigating 2c-t-2 and 2c-t-7 as alternatives to MDMA therapy, because of their analytical edge.


Also, with LSD Psychotherapy, it can take two different, Psycholytic and Psychedelic. LSD can be used in treating alcoholism, among other things.


~There's a ton of official medical/psychiatric research going on overseas, and a bunch of underground psychotherapists working in America and abroad.

 

[fastandbulbous]

F&B, what was your dose and method of administration?
also do you think ketamine played a big role in improving the effects, as it tends to do with most tryptamines?

Can't remember the dose, but it was IM and yes the ketamine made recall of the events without overwhelming emotional release easier. As for was it specifically due to MET, I think any dialkyltryptamine would have done it taken at that time in a large enough dose, it just happened that it was MET (I think)

 

[any major dude]

Obviously psychedelics are a great tool for introspection. This introspection usually has positive results, however the experience of this introspection may be positive and enjoyable, or incredibly difficult.

They also have the effect of mild to radical alteration of perspective. Kind of like traveling. Hence the term "trip" is far more accurate than it may seem. Psychedelics definitely broaden one's experience of reality, that is they bring to light new ways of feeling, thinking and perceiving. The utility of the latter is debatable, but definitely shows some promise.

Additionally they can be enlightening. My current worldview and attitudes towards things such as violence and war are totally different than they were pre-LSD. The beauty and intricacy of nature has never been more apparent to me than on a fairly recent 2c-i, 4 acetoxy DiPT, and DOI trip. And I'm not talking about scenes of forests or mountains that everyone can find beautiful and awe inspiring, but the intricacy, complexity, and beauty of single blades of grass and clovers. Granted I may have looked like a complete basket case (or maybe like someone who had lost a contact lens) crawling around in my front yard, but I felt as if I didn't even previously know humans had the capacity to experience such beauty.

All this being said, and given the rarity of finding a legitimate psychedelic therapist, what are some methods you guys use for getting the most out of a trip, in a not purely recreational sense?

When I trip it is most often alone, very late at night and into daylight, as I like to get to experience both darkness and sunlight while tripping. Sometimes I feel as if I'm not getting the most therapuetic value though. Any suggestions?

 

[Xorkoth]

Bump for prune