Psychedelics

[Abject]

Where does the idea that psychedelics are spiritual and enlightening and enriching the soul and whatever other bullshit people say about hallucinogens??
Of all the drugs I've tried I'd have to say psychedelics have been the most futile/useless of them all, though I've only tried LSD/shrooms/DMT/2c-x

 

[murphythecat]

because psy are really spiritual to some?
When I was 17, it wasnt spiritual really.
At around 23, psychedelic began to show me the spiritual side of life

 

[ForEverAfter]

why are psychs the most futile/useless for you, abject?
can you describe what you don't like about them?

i think people are destined for certain drugs.
mushrooms are hugely beneficial, for me.

 

[Xorkoth]

Some people don't seem to have spiritual experiences on them. I don't either, usually; these days I tend to just trip for fun. But my early experiences, especially my first one, were extremely impactful to me. My first trip was a true spiritual awakening and it changed my life. I used to go into it with the intention of experiencing something mind-expanding/spiritual, and I usually did.

The idea comes from the fact that many people have had spiritual experiences on them. It's not bullshit, it just doesn't always happen and I have met people who it's never happened for. The psychedelic experience is very much about what you put into it, in terms of what you get out of it.

 

[-=SS=-]

The psychedelic experience is very much about what you put into it, in terms of what you get out of it.

I would also add on top of that statement that, in my opinion, there seems to be some kind of intelligence/force that recognizes when the user is ready to receive revelations. Whether this is a part of yourself or something else I don't know for sure, but it seems to me those who allow and make space within themselves are those who tend to have the spiritual breakthroughs.

When me and my close friends did NN-DMT for the first time they all had rather unremarkable experiences (though still visual and profound). I on the other hand.. they said my face looked like I was at total peace. I came out of the trip with body tremors like a woman who's experiencing a powerful orgasm haha and my mind was just in an absolute state of ecstasy.. I felt like I had gone home/touched something incredibly special. I was weeping from the sheer beauty and how deeply the experience touched me. The difference between us is that I have always been sensitive to the inner tremendum, whereas my friends were not.

Some people aren't ready to receive. Even fewer go the full distance and investigate themselves without psychedelics. "Many are called, few are chosen".

It's the same with meditation. Eventually through self-transformation.. and just paying fucking attention to what's there.. you create the conditions that allows all this profound and revelationary stuff to come forth. I believe everyone has the potential to receive, but not everyone has the capacity in their current state of development.

To hear the truth you must be prepared to face the truth. The average person often lives a lie, and lies to themselves on a daily basis. The secrets of existence aren't going to be revealed to a person who can not face the truth about themselves!

 

[Ninae]

Capacity seems connected with interest or personal will. If someone has no interest in meeting God, maybe don't even believe in it, he will usually leave them alone. But this is also a problem for all those who will only believe when they have proof. Many things seem to have to start out as faith, or opening up yourself to the possibility that something could exist and making an effort, or at least having the desire.

This is the real meaning of faith to me. Not just blindly believing in something like so many seem to think. I'm not really willing to believe "blindly" for that long.

 

[Abject]

why are psychs the most futile/useless for you, abject?
can you describe what you don't like about them?

i think people are destined for certain drugs.
mushrooms are hugely beneficial, for me.

They just don't offer any value. I have only tried acid a couple of times, but it just put me in an ungrounded/gullible mindstate and really lowered my ability to use logic.
I have only done mushrooms a decent amount of times in one season, and once at another time period. The first time I ate shrooms was pleasant, very subtle effects as I couldn't stomach any more (i was eating them as we were hunting and only brought a couple of bananas with me) but even then I was questioning quite rudimentary things (i.e. how does gravity work again)

When I think of any other drug I've done, be it tobacco and alcohol or something much more substantial, I can think of examples where all other drugs I've tried have given me something - been useful. Being able to take a step back and get my head closer to my neck, when it comes to nicotine, or the inhibition of alcohol.

I went into my first true psychedelic experience (i'd already tried dissociatives at this stage) expecting it to be spiritual/meaningful/substantial (as it's so commonly portrayed.) My favourite part of the trip was the invigoration I felt early on. Once my thinking started to become affected, there was nothing other than isolation and existential "realisations" which actually set me back as far as progressing as a person.
On other trips, again my capacity for understanding was diminished, as if my sense of logic and knowledge had been melted, and I would believe crazy thoughts - which would then make me question how valid conviction is, and how certain I could be of anything. Not to mention the realisation that we couldn't truly communicate anything.
The only thing I learnt from psychedelics was that my expectations probably compounded the issue when the experience was so empty and trivial, and so to not expect (so) much of an experience (whether it's a drug, concert, book, person, or anything else I guess)

Dissociatives on the other hand showed me a level of introspection, empathy, and appreciation like nothing else. Though I don't feel they're spiritual either.

I am just interested to hear how psychedelics were spiritual/useful to you guys? In what manner? By what means?

 

[Xorkoth]

I'll summarize and also post links to my trip reports on the specific instances in case you want to get more detail.

My first trip I had no idea what to expect. The experience was basically the experience of waking up from a dream, except the dream was my human life and I experienced being a (the) single point of universal consciousness ("god") experiencing itself as all life simultaneously. It was super-real, so real that it felt precisely like waking up from a dream, where the dream fades away and you're left wondering how you could have believed it to be all there was. I still remembered it and was aware I was looking through Xorkoth's eyes still but I was also aware of and experiencing the eternity and all-encompassingness of my full existence. This experience was so powerful and so real that when I came back down I was very different. I went from being an atheist/nihilist to believing what I believe today about the universe and about what it is that we are. (https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=103568)

Another instance is when I used 2C-T-2 to resolve some lingering anxiety and depression. I had graduated college and moved across the country with my then-girlfriend and left behind everything I knew, and I was really struggling to feel good at any point in any day. I got some 2C-T-2 and had a few trips with it. I found that by closing my eyes and listening to music (and tripping alone), I was able to reach a state where my personality seemed to split into multiple components parts, with my "self" as the overarching observer, unattached. I was able to see how these parts interacted with each other on a subconscious level, in both positive and negative ways. I saw how my depression and anxiety were happening because of a conflict between these aspects of myself. With this understanding, I was able to fix the problem and reach a consistent place of contentment and happiness and excitement for life. Though other life events later led to more negative mental patterns, I attribute my moving past that particular period very much to 2C-T-2. It showed me how to help myself, and then I did the work to act on that information. (https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=47041)

Another time is when I took an ibogaine flood dose to help me cure my 10-year opiate addiction which was ruining my life. The experience was powerful beyond words, not spiritual in a typical sort of sense, but incredibly deeply subconsciously healing and profound. I experienced 3 days of dream-like visions which related to me in allergorical form the factors in my life that needed to change. I came out of the experience feeling like a new person - my opiate dependence was gone. I've never even craved another opiate again since then (a year ago). I also came out of it with the strong desire to eat healthfully and well, and to get in strong and in shape and stay in shape perpetually. Taking ibogaine was one of the single best decisions I have ever made, ever since then my life has been so much better and I have been so much healthier. (https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=103568)

I've had other experiences in this vein but I picked perhaps the 3 most dramatic. I've also had a very large number of trips which were not spiritual or useful at all, but were a lot of fun. And some that have been very difficult and some which haven't been much fun.

 

[murphythecat]

strong dose is very spiritual to me. the bliss, the inner well being, the visuals, the ego dissolution its all very spiritual to me.
but when your on full on dosage, it may or may not be spiritual. ime, every high dose is spiritual to me and anyone I know.

 

[-=SS=-]

I am just interested to hear how psychedelics were spiritual/useful to you guys? In what manner? By what means?

My first mushroom trip, which wasn't a huge dose, was fun and giggles.. but when I went outside and looked at the sky and the setting sun my mind just went absolutely silent. It was in that moment that something clicked. Like behind all the mental chatter there was this spaciousness just waiting to be acknowledged but is usually drowned out. I couldn't remember what I was doing in school or what year it was, but I just felt at peace. That experience and the memory of it left a real impression on me, like I know that state is always there waiting to be tapped.

NN-DMT smoked gave me the conviction that none of this is real, that it's a kind of projection we witness. It was somewhat disconcerting to look down at my body when I opened my eyes.. my body genuinely felt like a suit I was inhabiting. I also got the direct impression when looking at friends that they were basically just complex robots. Those impressions have always stuck with me.

Overall psychedelics left me with out any doubt that reality is not just some blind accident as science tells us. I don't know exactly what is going on, I can give you my speculations, but I know for certain the truth is probably closer to some Buddhist or Hindu concept than the dead universe postulated by science. It has taken me years to integrate that understanding and retain functionality as a human being. I mean it's difficult to get roused by the stuff normal people get excited by when you know in the back of your mind this whole thing is so fucking strange!

 

[alasdairm]

Where does the idea that psychedelics are spiritual and enlightening and enriching the soul and whatever other bullshit people say about hallucinogens?

most people i know, who use psychedelics, may not be enlightened but they are enlightened enough to not call other people's opinions bullshit, just because they are different or they disagree with them.

alasdair

 

[methamaniac]

I don't know about "enlightening", but i believe (from my experience ) they help give a glimpse of real reality....if that makes sense.

 

[Samulson]

The problem you are encountering is, that you are trying to understand and rationalize transcendental experience with the limited logical understanding of the egoistic mind. The egoistic mind, that which you are identifying yourself with and limiting yourself to, is completely incapable on it's own, of attaining a transcendental state of consciousness. In order for such a state to manifest and be comprehended the other energetic systems of the body and mind, particularly the heart, need to be activated and allowed to contribute to the experience.

For some, this happens naturally with psychedelics and they transition fluidly into mystical states of consciousness with little seeming effort. For others, particularly those who have heavily invested in the development of egoic identity and the beliefs of the supremacy of their rational mind, during their lives. For them, attaining these states of transcendentalism will require much effort and inner growth to overcome the barriers that egoic mind will place in order to try and retain it's illusion of supremacy.

The spiritual aspects of psychedelic experience, just as the spiritual aspects of any mystical experience, depend upon the state of spiritual development of the being experiencing them, as to what that being is capable of understanding and accepting. If you are really serious about experiencing these states, it would be beneficial for you to begin with meditation and learning about the chakra energy centres and how their energies interact with consciousness. After gaining some understanding through this, then consider trying the same thing under the influence of a psychedelic.

It should be stressed that the energies of these systems are a very real thing, and by engaging in these exercises, you will be initiating processes in yourself that will have very real results. This is not a path to jump on lightly.

Peace and Love

 

[Ninae]

I mean it's difficult to get roused by the stuff normal people get excited by when you know in the back of your mind this whole thing is so fucking strange!

I'm not experienced with psychedelics, but I've experienced heightened consciousness-states in a natural way so many times, also with the aid of drugs, at this point I can find the "normal" life, which is restricted to the lower levels of consciousnes, pretty dire and quite meaningless. I also don't believe it's what is really normal, or think we're meant to live on the higher levels and that's why we can feel so discontent with normal, wordly life.

I also don't understand why our society worships logic so much. Like it somehow gives you more value and life is one big intelligence contest (well, in the modern world intelligence is the equivalent of muscle, but it's of the ego). When higher intelligence is something most can attain with enough effort and is not worth all that much compared to expanding your awareness and reaching higher states of consciousness. Unfortunately the world of spirit is largely left unexplored by many because they're too scared it will make them look stupid.

So many connect intelligence with self-worth, like being of lower intelligence actually makes someone worth less. I also enjoy developing my mind but it's not what I value the most in myself or others. I think love is both more rewarding, gives more joy, and is an expression of higher consciousness. But men tend to have their self-worth tied up in how smart they are. While women's role is more as nurturers so it can be easier for us to explore the spiritual side of life. But, yes, there's a limit to how much I'm willing to live in the lower states. Of course everyone are pushing me to, but I'm getting to the point where I'll refuse.

 

[Voyager3]

They don't and can't 'open spiritual pathways', and (so far) cannot reliably open a channel to the spirit world AFAIK, nor enable mediumistic abilities or sensitivities. I don't say that isn't possible, I just don't think It has been done yet - if it has, whoever managed it is keeping it to themselves! I do have a nagging suspicion that this might be achieved in the next few years however.... we shall see?

What psychedelics CAN do, and certainly have in my case, is show you 'other places', and most importantly, open the mind and imagination to all sorts of new possibilities, which is an essential part of 'breaking through' to the world of spirit, and allowing communication with the dead. I know of no reliable, foolproof way to do that, but it is something which doesn't need drugs, and is probably different for everyone. My experience completely took me by surprise, and was never planned, intended or anticipated.

 

[vegan]

in other news, climate change is bullshit because it was cold in my room today

abject, the way you ask the question shows that you haven't taken 2 minutes to think/investigate about it (or 1 minute to formulate it correctly)
it's not polite to ask that others do your homework

 

[herbavore]

Abject, for me lsd, mescaline, mushrooms and peyote came into my life back in the 70's when I was in a very vulnerable state. I was lost in every single way there is to be lost and I was 15--in combination, a recipe for disaster. I was abusing drugs mindlessly--whatever someone offered, I took--just wanting reality to be different than what it was and not having a clue as to my own power to change it. Those drugs-- psychedelics--helped change all that. I lived at a little hippie school on 300 acres of woods with about 60 other kids. Perhaps the woods alone could have taught me something eventually but I was dangerously close to checking out and I truly believe now that my experiences on psychedelics opened a heart that was shutting down. In other words, they were a portal into the larger existence that modern cultures tend to bury in adolescence, when natural human curiosity and exploration get replaced with the inner terrorist of censorship.

Using the word spiritual is loaded for many people (not for me). For me it is quite simply regaining that deep dream-state of childhood when the connection with the natural world is unconscious, healthy and alive. That's why I say that perhaps eventually the woods alone would have saved me. I used psychedelics for only about 6 or 7 years at the most. They gave me a deeper awareness of the unity of all life. They gave me an entrance into a calm and peaceful state outside of the chattering life of my ego (which at the time was stuck in a constant state of fear). They gave me those things and then I had them inside. No need to keep taking them, no need to become dependent on that heightened state--just very appreciative. I didn't get enlightenment (now there's a term that is loaded for me). I got a door, a window, an opening to something both deeply familiar (Ah, I remember this place) and astoundingly new (I never knew anything like this existed). I still (40 years later!) have HPPD and I experience that with affection and nostalgia; in fact since the D stands for disorder I would reject that acronym and substitute a "G" (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Gift). I was on a very dark path of self-destruction and fatalism. I could not connect to the rich life and love that was all around me. I make a lot of jokes now that learning to listen to trees talking saved me but it really is no joke.

I don't think everyone needs psychedelics but for me they were a useful survival tool--a particular kind of lens. Since those experiences I can honestly say that the deepest part of myself is calm. That, considering that the deepest part of myself (that I could access) prior to those experiences had been pure anxiety, is profound. I am married to a man who never experienced anything like this on psychedelics. He considers the kind of experiences I had to be "pure hooey" to use his east side Detroit colloquialism. For him they were simply adventurous fun--nothing more. Drug taking--no matter what the drug--is a form of seeking. What you are seeking may determine what you find. Also true is that what you fear may determine what you find. I think everyone's answers to your question will be different as we all have different perspectives on spirituality and different perspectives on reality.

 

[socko]

That's a good way to look at it, herbavore. I think psychedelics ahve to ability to offer people a fresh and broad perspective of life and what they are going through emotionally. It can even be spiritual. From there, after the experience, one can remember what they saw or thought and use the experience and apply it to their situation. The result can be like yours - it helps you find your way and solve some of life's problems. I've read that a deep psychedelic, 'mind-opening' session can do as much good as a year of seeing a professional psychiatrist (the good kind who actually cares and wants to help their patients).

How do you feel when people you care about dismiss it as "pure hog warsh" as your husband calls it? What was profound and spiritual to you is nothing but a cheap carnival thrill ride to him. I don't easily tolerate people who treat me that way and tend to cut them out of my life.

VoyagerThey don't and can't 'open spiritual pathways', and (so far) cannot reliably open a channel to the spirit world AFAIK, nor enable mediumistic abilities or sensitivities. I don't say that isn't possible, I just don't think It has been done yet - if it has, whoever managed it is keeping it to themselves! I do have a nagging suspicion that this might be achieved in the next few years however.... we shall see?

I think I can safely say that most people in the current era don't use psychedelics to open mediumistic channels with the dead. Some rare exceptions would be shamanistic use of Ayuahasca in the Amazon forest. The use of teh word 'spiritual' or 'mystical' in this context tends to mean experiencing oneself as part of the Universe, to feel a sense of wholeness, calm, completeness.

 

[Abject]

Thanks for all the input guys, I am especially appreciative of herbie's reply.
I confirmed my assumptions and I'm content with my expectations/what psychedelics offer me.
I'm not that big on them but I'll probably dabble with shrooms again this season - as nice as finding peace sounds there's still a place in my heart for wondering whether i'm alive

 

[PotatoMan]

Psychedelic means "mind-manifesting". The trips are creations of your mind so if you use it in a spiritual manner then it will be spiritual.
If you use them for fun then they will be simply just fun.

The problem with psychedelics for me is that they show you whatever but it truly is useless until you implement whatever good knowledge you learned from your trip into your life.