Psychedelics/Other Drugs While On Lithium

[I B Profane]

Hey all,

My girlfriend has just been prescribed Lithium. Which psychedelics/drugs can she take, and which ones are no-no's?

Snooping around on the internet has led me to the following conclusions -

PROBABLY FINE:
Weed/Hash oil - Seems to be fine. YMMV, but she loves the stuff, and hasn't had a negative interaction with it yet.
DMT - I've seen no negative interactions, seems to be fine, DMT seems to be one of the most physically safe drugs out there.
Ketamine/MXE/Misc Dissociatives - Again, I haven't read of any negative interactions. She really likes K, I assume this would be fine?
Stimulants - I don't think there's any problems here.

PROBABLY NOT FINE:
MDMA - Probably unsafe, unfortunately, but a low dose (100mg maximum) SHOULD be okay assuming she stays properly hydrated.
LSD - I don't think you're supposed to take LSD while on Lithium.
Shrooms - Same as LSD.
Alcohol - This is supposed to be a rather poor mix yes?

CURRENTLY UNSURE ABOUT:
Mescaline
Opiates
Benzos
Sleeping pills (like ambien)
Other mood stabilizers

If anyone has any first hand experience that would be great! I am also not interested in hearing "blah she's on psych meds so she shouldn't be tripping", I know for a fact that if it weren't for my mood stabilizers I wouldn't be able to take psychedelics, or live a happy life at all, so please no moral high horse stuff. I'm interested in the PHYSICAL safety behind these interactions - the mental is purely subjective, but of course experience and advice in both fields would be appreciated.

Thanks :D

EDIT: Oh, also information on RC interactions would also be extremely helpful! And yes, I'm aware that this is nearly completely uncharted territory...

 

[psykedenlitenment]

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/648356-List-of-Dangerous-amp-Potentially-Unsafe-Combinations

Says for lithium specifically, no phenethylamines & tryptamines & no ibogaine. I didn't scroll far enough to see about dissos, but just cruise through that list and see what your eyes see.

 

[AA357]

Lithium and psychedelics don't go well together. The combination induces severe anxiety and tonic-clonic seizures pretty consistently for some reason.

I shouldn't think there would be any negative interactions between lithium and dissociatives, benzos or opiates.

 

[I B Profane]

Yeah, I kinda figured that there'd be some serotonin based negative interaction between lithium and trypts and phens.

So no shrooms, LSD, 2cs, 4subbed trypts, or any "classic psychs" if you will? That's a bummer but I kinda figured as much :/

So even a low dose (75-100mg of TESTED) mdma could be dangerous territory? I love rolling with her, to think that we may never be able to experience mdma together again is a sad prospect indeed but obviously, her mental health comes first.

Another question - is DMT lumped in with this category? I've heard anecdotal reports of people on lithium tripping on DMT just fine with no adverse physical effects. DMT is one of the physically safest drugs out there right? If it ever killed someone I think we'd know...I'm still gonna assume this one is safe until I hear evidence to the contrary. Of course I really would like more info, since I can imagine having a seizure while on DMT would be one of the suckiest things a human can experience! :O

All the reading I've done suggests that ketamine is fine. I think as long as we can still use hash oil, DMT, and ketamine together, I feel like we can still have a "psychonautical" relationship together if you will. Bummer about that mdma tho! :/ Anybodu have any info on MDA or 6APB or that "borax mdma" combo with lithium? I realize this is all virtually unresearched territory, which is why I'm grateful for any and all anecdotal experience that people can provide.

Side note: where is that fellow crOOk when you need him? I remember him mentioning being on lithium, and still continuing to use certain substances like DMT and misc dissociatives, so I'd like to hear some insight from that dude specifically...but his pm box is full

 

[vegan]

hi

how much does she take?
i can't tell for regular/high doses, but at low doses, lithium seems pretty inoffensive to me

i take 300mg of lithium carbonate daily

i haven't had any problem with dmt, 5-meo-dmt, 2c-e and mdma

 

[I B Profane]

hi

how much does she take?
i can't tell for regular/high doses, but at low doses, lithium seems pretty inoffensive to me

i take 300mg of lithium carbonate daily

i haven't had any problem with dmt, 5-meo-dmt, 2c-e and mdma

Thanks for the response!

She started taking it last week. I believe she is at 600mg/day, in two separate 300mg doses.

I myself am on a different mood stabilizer, gabapentin (900mg/day, 3 separate doses) and it hasn't interfered with my drug taking at all. It has no noticeable effect on psychedelics, and seems to even potentiate the effects of dissociatives (disclaimer: I have no scientific backing behind this theory.) Of course I know that lithium and gabapentin are very different drugs from a pharmacological standpoint, all I really know is that they're both mood stabilizers.

Do you mind if I PM you? I'm very interested in personal, anecdotal experiences of lithium and its various interactions - something there seems to be a dearth of consistent information of on the internets. Thx again for the response

 

[AA357]

hi

how much does she take?
i can't tell for regular/high doses, but at low doses, lithium seems pretty inoffensive to me

i take 300mg of lithium carbonate daily

i haven't had any problem with dmt, 5-meo-dmt, 2c-e and mdma

Erowid experience vaults: Lithium: Combinations:
https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Lithium_Combinations.shtml

12 people took a psychedelic whilst on lithium and 11 had seizures. 6 ended up in the ER.
2C-E, 2C-I, psilocin and AMT all resulted in seizures.
8 people took LSD while on lithium and 7 had seizures (two of them were on 300mg lithium daily and another had also taken MDMA). The one person who didn't seize up (a man on an unspecified daily dose of lithium: "Hellish Combo") had a terrifying and psychotic experience.

Lithium and serotonergic psychedelics should not be taken together... there is clearly a very real and dangerous interaction here.

 

[I B Profane]

Erowid experience vaults: Lithium: Combinations:
https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Lithium_Combinations.shtml

12 people took a psychedelic whilst on lithium and 11 had seizures. 6 ended up in the ER.
2C-E, 2C-I, psilocin and AMT all resulted in seizures.
8 people took LSD while on lithium and 7 had seizures (two of them were on 300mg lithium daily and another had also taken MDMA). The one person who didn't seize up (a man on an unspecified daily dose of lithium: "Hellish Combo") had a terrifying and psychotic experience.

Lithium and serotonergic psychedelics should not be taken together... there is clearly a very real and dangerous interaction here.

Hmm.

Definitely not what I wanted to hear, but thanks for the response. Guess I'll just give up on the idea of her taking trypts and phens sucks that we can't experience that together.

Guess we'll just stick to ketamine...if only I could find some! :/

IMO I do not think she needs to be on lithium. I think something like Gabapentin or Lyrica would provide the mood stabilization effect that she would need, without the side effect of not being able to trip (not to mention its many other side effects.) Then again, I'm not her, and I'm not her psychiatrist, so I don't want to be speaking out of my ass here.

But yeah so let me know if this seems accurate - hash oil is fine, ketamine and MXE/most dissos should be fine (but proceed with caution with the unresearched ones.) Downers like opiates and benzos (she loves etizolam) and ghb are fine, most stimulants are fine as long as you're drinking water, and other mood stabilizers like Gabapentin and Lyrica should also be fine to take. DMT is also probably fine to take - I will keep believing this until I can find one specific anecdotal report of DMT itself causing physical harm to anyone. Yes I did read the reports saying that lithium plus most psychs lead to a bad time, but none of them mentioned DMT specifically - which is in a world of its own.

Not fine - tryptamines (minus DMT), phenethylamines, ergoloids, and drugs that either lower the seizure threshold and/or fuck around with serotonin.

Does all that sound accurate?

Thanks much for the responses everybody btw, they've been quite helpful

 

[AA357]

I hate to burst your bubble but DMT is a classical 5HT psychedelic.
The fact that psilocin, AMT, LSD, 2C-E and 2C-I (that's 2 trypts, 2 phens and an ergoloid) all cause seizures and psychiatric symptoms when combined with lithium would suggest that no serotonergic psychedelic is safe. There is clearly a link here so I would avoid DMT altogether.

Ketamine+lithium should be safe (ketamine has powerful anticonvulsant effects BTW). Dissociative anaesthetics in general should be safe (maybe not DXM though). GABAergics are definitely OK. Not sure about stimulants but I would avoid any drug with strong serotonergic activity.

 

[I B Profane]

I hate to burst your bubble but DMT is a classical 5HT psychedelic.
The fact that psilocin, AMT, LSD, 2C-E and 2C-I (that's 2 trypts, 2 phens and an ergoloid) all cause seizures and psychiatric symptoms when combined with lithium would suggest that no serotonergic psychedelic is safe. There is clearly a link here so I would avoid DMT altogether.

Ketamine+lithium should be safe (ketamine has powerful anticonvulsant effects BTW). Dissociative anaesthetics in general should be safe (maybe not DXM though). GABAergics are definitely OK. Not sure about stimulants but I would avoid any drug with strong serotonergic activity.

Yeah, I did know that DMT is a classical 5HT psych like all the rest. I guess I kinda just had wishful thinking that the DMT elves wouldn't be big enough dicks to give someone a seizure while already skullfucked on DMT :/

So I guess now that that's all out of the question (I'd like a second or third opinion tho, because I've also read reports saying that the combination worked just fine) what psychedelics CAN we do? Ketamine for sure, and probably methoxetamine. How about pcp or 3meopcp? I'm gonna assume DXM is unsafe since it combines poorly with practically everything. I've also taken 2-meo-diphenidine but I wouldn't want to give her that one...it scares me a little tbh.

So dissociatives (minus DXM) should be good, and everything else is dangerous territory? That seems...limiting. What psychedelics can we take together? She does love nitrous haha

 

[I B Profane]

Anyone else? :/ this is fairly important to me, I would love to be able to trip with my SO...I'll still love her regardless, but without it it just wouldn't be the same

Any anecdotal (or otherwise) evidence you have I'd love to hear it. I have now heard everything from "she can't take any trypts, phens, or ergoloids at all" to "pretty much don't worry about it." A bit more data would be helpful...

 

[AA357]

Yeah, I did know that DMT is a classical 5HT psych like all the rest. I guess I kinda just had wishful thinking that the DMT elves wouldn't be big enough dicks to give someone a seizure while already skullfucked on DMT :/

LMAO!

Anyone else? :/ this is fairly important to me, I would love to be able to trip with my SO...I'll still love her regardless, but without it it just wouldn't be the same

Any anecdotal (or otherwise) evidence you have I'd love to hear it. I have now heard everything from "she can't take any trypts, phens, or ergoloids at all" to "pretty much don't worry about it." A bit more data would be helpful...

I know it sounds like scaremongering but those are some disturbing statistics.

The problem is that the interaction between lithium and psychedelics is unknown. Nobody knows why this combination is bad; which psychedelics have the strongest/weakest interactions with lithium or how much of each drug you need to have in you before bad things start to happen.

I did quite a lot of research and wasn't able to find a single study or scientific explanation on the matter. Just a load of trippers saying "don't fucking take psychedelics when you're on lithium".
Seizures on psychedelics are extremely rare. Lithium (in non-toxic amounts) isn't associated with seizures either. The fact that they interact so catastrophically is a complete mystery, but one that should be respected nevertheless.

This really does need to be investigated for the good of psychedelic users, lithium users and the whole medical community.... it's a damn shame they don't test out stuff like this on convicted child killers.

 

[I B Profane]

Erowid experience vaults: Lithium: Combinations:
https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Lithium_Combinations.shtml

12 people took a psychedelic whilst on lithium and 11 had seizures. 6 ended up in the ER.
2C-E, 2C-I, psilocin and AMT all resulted in seizures.
8 people took LSD while on lithium and 7 had seizures (two of them were on 300mg lithium daily and another had also taken MDMA). The one person who didn't seize up (a man on an unspecified daily dose of lithium: "Hellish Combo") had a terrifying and psychotic experience.

Lithium and serotonergic psychedelics should not be taken together... there is clearly a very real and dangerous interaction here.

LMAO!


I know it sounds like scaremongering but those are some disturbing statistics.

The problem is that the interaction between lithium and psychedelics is unknown. Nobody knows why this combination is bad; which psychedelics have the strongest/weakest interactions with lithium or how much of each drug you need to have in you before bad things start to happen.

I did quite a lot of research and wasn't able to find a single study or scientific explanation on the matter. Just a load of trippers saying "don't fucking take psychedelics when you're on lithium".
Seizures on psychedelics are extremely rare. Lithium (in non-toxic amounts) isn't associated with seizures either. The fact that they interact so catastrophically is a complete mystery, but one that should be respected nevertheless.

This really does need to be investigated for the good of psychedelic users, lithium users and the whole medical community.... it's a damn shame they don't test out stuff like this on convicted child killers.

I appreciate all of your well thought out and informative responses in this thread man

Yeah based off what you said (and a lot of other research) im just gonna play it safe and not take any serotenergic psychs with her with her. We can still do dissos like ketamine though, and I really do love that We won't touch DXM or diphenidine tho. Probly just k and mxe, maybe mxm...

I agree that it's a shame that so little research exists on these things. Maybe one day she can get on a different mood stabilizer - I've had no problems tripping on Gabapentin (900mg/day prescribed) and I've heard good things about lyrica too.

Again, thanks for the info man. While it wasn't quite I was hoping to hear, your responses have been quite helpful. Good lookin on the harm reduction factor, I really do appreciate it :D

 

[vegan]

Erowid experience vaults: Lithium: Combinations:
https://www.erowid.org/experiences/s...inations.shtml

12 people took a psychedelic whilst on lithium and 11 had seizures. 6 ended up in the ER.

first: better safe than sorry. true
and after reading these reports, my opinion is that your girlfriend shouldn't take the risk


however, it seems that some of these reports deserve a side note

one of them for instance says that he has taken lsd several times, and doesn't point the blame to lithium in the report
so as far as we know, he could well have taken lsd several times on lithium, with this trip being the only one that turned out bad

another one (on shrooms) also took syrian rue, which is well know to potentiate psilocybin
i once fainted on syrian rue + too many mushrooms
the only time i've ever fainted on psychedelics
so lithium may not have been the culprit in his case

another one says that "In the hospital I had a very low lithium level."
well, i don't think that lithium is the culprit either then
litium doesn't just leave your organism in a couple hours

one was taking lithium because she had low levels in her body
if the dose only brought her to regular levels...

one "spent 3 days unconscious in the ICU" but only wrote 4 lines about it
really? i'm sorry to doubt him, but 3 days is a very serious deal. doesn't he have a little more info to give us? i'm sure that after 3 days the doctors had a little comment to make

one of them had recently converted to mormonism... seriously
it's ok to believe in santa claus as a kid when presents appear on the 25th, but to decide to start believing as an adult... your problem is not lithium

[i can't find it anymore, but i think one of them said that the dealer had told him that the blotter was strong, but that the guy hadn't paid attention]

some reports attribute to the combination what the psychedelic in itself is powerful enough to produce
maybe they simply got overwhelmed, totally phased out and concluded that they had had a seizure from the combination
experiences can vary with the same dose, and in the case of lsd, there's no way to know how much is in this or that blotter

several reports are very short
the people obviously wanted to warn others of a risk
but it brings up two questions
are there many people who had non-problematic trips and didn't see any reason to mention the lithium? (as i probably would have)
those reports wouldn't appear as combinations and these statistics (so many seizures) would then not be representative
did these people spend as much time trying to understand the source of their seizures as they did writing their reports? (maybe in a hurry to warn others they didn't realize that they were overlooking other facts)

I do not think she needs to be on lithium

hi

maybe she can take breaks
find out how long lithium takes to leave the body (tell me too, i could use the info if combinations happen to be indeed risky)
according to my doctor it takes 1-2 weeks to start having effects (so it can't leave the body in less than that)

 

[Yeetbeat]

first: better safe than sorry. true
and after reading these reports, my opinion is that your girlfriend shouldn't take the risk


however, it seems that some of these reports deserve a side note

one of them for instance says that he has taken lsd several times, and doesn't point the blame to lithium in the report
so as far as we know, he could well have taken lsd several times on lithium, with this trip being the only one that turned out bad

another one (on shrooms) also took syrian rue, which is well know to potentiate psilocybin
i once fainted on syrian rue + too many mushrooms
the only time i've ever fainted on psychedelics
so lithium may not have been the culprit in his case

another one says that "In the hospital I had a very low lithium level."
well, i don't think that lithium is the culprit either then
litium doesn't just leave your organism in a couple hours

one was taking lithium because she had low levels in her body
if the dose only brought her to regular levels...

one "spent 3 days unconscious in the ICU" but only wrote 4 lines about it
really? i'm sorry to doubt him, but 3 days is a very serious deal. doesn't he have a little more info to give us? i'm sure that after 3 days the doctors had a little comment to make

one of them had recently converted to mormonism... seriously
it's ok to believe in santa claus as a kid when presents appear on the 25th, but to decide to start believing as an adult... your problem is not lithium

[i can't find it anymore, but i think one of them said that the dealer had told him that the blotter was strong, but that the guy hadn't paid attention]

some reports attribute to the combination what the psychedelic in itself is powerful enough to produce
maybe they simply got overwhelmed, totally phased out and concluded that they had had a seizure from the combination
experiences can vary with the same dose, and in the case of lsd, there's no way to know how much is in this or that blotter

several reports are very short
the people obviously wanted to warn others of a risk
but it brings up two questions
are there many people who had non-problematic trips and didn't see any reason to mention the lithium? (as i probably would have)
those reports wouldn't appear as combinations and these statistics (so many seizures) would then not be representative
did these people spend as much time trying to understand the source of their seizures as they did writing their reports? (maybe in a hurry to warn others they didn't realize that they were overlooking other facts)


hi

maybe she can take breaks
find out how long lithium takes to leave the body (tell me too, i could use the info if combinations happen to be indeed risky)
according to my doctor it takes 1-2 weeks to start having effects (so it can't leave the body in less than that)

From what I've heard (not so much read), it can take many many months to leave the body. Many.

 

[I B Profane]

first: better safe than sorry. true
and after reading these reports, my opinion is that your girlfriend shouldn't take the risk


however, it seems that some of these reports deserve a side note

one of them for instance says that he has taken lsd several times, and doesn't point the blame to lithium in the report
so as far as we know, he could well have taken lsd several times on lithium, with this trip being the only one that turned out bad

another one (on shrooms) also took syrian rue, which is well know to potentiate psilocybin
i once fainted on syrian rue + too many mushrooms
the only time i've ever fainted on psychedelics
so lithium may not have been the culprit in his case

another one says that "In the hospital I had a very low lithium level."
well, i don't think that lithium is the culprit either then
litium doesn't just leave your organism in a couple hours

one was taking lithium because she had low levels in her body
if the dose only brought her to regular levels...

one "spent 3 days unconscious in the ICU" but only wrote 4 lines about it
really? i'm sorry to doubt him, but 3 days is a very serious deal. doesn't he have a little more info to give us? i'm sure that after 3 days the doctors had a little comment to make

one of them had recently converted to mormonism... seriously
it's ok to believe in santa claus as a kid when presents appear on the 25th, but to decide to start believing as an adult... your problem is not lithium

[i can't find it anymore, but i think one of them said that the dealer had told him that the blotter was strong, but that the guy hadn't paid attention]

some reports attribute to the combination what the psychedelic in itself is powerful enough to produce
maybe they simply got overwhelmed, totally phased out and concluded that they had had a seizure from the combination
experiences can vary with the same dose, and in the case of lsd, there's no way to know how much is in this or that blotter

several reports are very short
the people obviously wanted to warn others of a risk
but it brings up two questions
are there many people who had non-problematic trips and didn't see any reason to mention the lithium? (as i probably would have)
those reports wouldn't appear as combinations and these statistics (so many seizures) would then not be representative
did these people spend as much time trying to understand the source of their seizures as they did writing their reports? (maybe in a hurry to warn others they didn't realize that they were overlooking other facts)


hi

maybe she can take breaks
find out how long lithium takes to leave the body (tell me too, i could use the info if combinations happen to be indeed risky)
according to my doctor it takes 1-2 weeks to start having effects (so it can't leave the body in less than that)

first: better safe than sorry. true
and after reading these reports, my opinion is that your girlfriend shouldn't take the risk


however, it seems that some of these reports deserve a side note

one of them for instance says that he has taken lsd several times, and doesn't point the blame to lithium in the report
so as far as we know, he could well have taken lsd several times on lithium, with this trip being the only one that turned out bad

another one (on shrooms) also took syrian rue, which is well know to potentiate psilocybin
i once fainted on syrian rue + too many mushrooms
the only time i've ever fainted on psychedelics
so lithium may not have been the culprit in his case

another one says that "In the hospital I had a very low lithium level."
well, i don't think that lithium is the culprit either then
litium doesn't just leave your organism in a couple hours

one was taking lithium because she had low levels in her body
if the dose only brought her to regular levels...

one "spent 3 days unconscious in the ICU" but only wrote 4 lines about it
really? i'm sorry to doubt him, but 3 days is a very serious deal. doesn't he have a little more info to give us? i'm sure that after 3 days the doctors had a little comment to make

one of them had recently converted to mormonism... seriously
it's ok to believe in santa claus as a kid when presents appear on the 25th, but to decide to start believing as an adult... your problem is not lithium

[i can't find it anymore, but i think one of them said that the dealer had told him that the blotter was strong, but that the guy hadn't paid attention]

some reports attribute to the combination what the psychedelic in itself is powerful enough to produce
maybe they simply got overwhelmed, totally phased out and concluded that they had had a seizure from the combination
experiences can vary with the same dose, and in the case of lsd, there's no way to know how much is in this or that blotter

several reports are very short
the people obviously wanted to warn others of a risk
but it brings up two questions
are there many people who had non-problematic trips and didn't see any reason to mention the lithium? (as i probably would have)
those reports wouldn't appear as combinations and these statistics (so many seizures) would then not be representative
did these people spend as much time trying to understand the source of their seizures as they did writing their reports? (maybe in a hurry to warn others they didn't realize that they were overlooking other facts)


hi

maybe she can take breaks
find out how long lithium takes to leave the body (tell me too, i could use the info if combinations happen to be indeed risky)
according to my doctor it takes 1-2 weeks to start having effects (so it can't leave the body in less than that)

Thanks for the response

Yeah, I dunno...there's simply way too little scientific information and way too many conflicted anecdotal reports on the Internet. There is always the chance that she could trip and be completely fine, but (best case scenario) I'd be extremely concerned for her safety and well-being throughout the entire duration of the trip. That would kill the vibe pretty hard...probably not worth it :/

It is my hope that she is able to reach a state where she can either taper off the lithium, or replace it with a different medication that has no known negative interactions with psychedelics. Her happiness and mental well being is far more important to me than our ability to trip together, and I will do my best to support her regardless of what ends up happening.

 

[vegan]

hi

about "how long does lithium take to leave your body?"

what we actually need to know is for how long lithium will still be able to interact with other substances that you take

trozzle has heard that it could take months before leaving the body

however, you don't just take it once and then it keeps having effects for months
you have to take it daily for it to keep being effective

if it doesn't have effects anymore, even though it may not have totally left the body, there's a chance that what is left won't be in places (the brain) where it can interact with other psychoatives someone may take

as a rough comparison, one could for instance say that a molecule can still be found in someone's hair months after having ingested it, however, it's obvious that it doesn't pose a danger anymore

my guess is that a regular doctor won't know how it works, but may pretend he does
it'd be better to find a scientific study on lithium amounts in the body after consumption, if it exists

------
i'm not incouraging any careless behaviour
just trying to keep the door to a way around the problem open