Psychedelics & nicotine for non-smokers

[slownerveaction]

Could anyone offer their perspective on psychedelics & nicotine from the perspective of a lack of nicotine acclimatization?

It's Halloween and I'm reminded of an experience I had about a year ago at a costume party. We took some 2C-T-2 and about six hours later when we were starting to come down, someone brought out a hookah and loaded it with honey tobacco. I'm not a smoker (at all) but after a few hits I was floored. The normal tension I feel during a comedown melted away and all my visuals came roaring back for a while. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

 

[onetwo]

Even being a smoker, when I'm on a psychedelic and I take a drag, my visuals can be momentarily enhanced. And even disregarding the psychedelics, when you are a non-smoker, nicotine will give you a fat buzz regardless.

 

[psood0nym]

I've certainly had far more enjoyable tobacco smoking experiences while on psychedelics or opiates than sober. In fact, I find them harsh and repellent sober. I've never been a habitual smoker so even after over a decade of smoking, on average, maybe one cigarette per week, I still get a nicotine buzz. However, I've only ever found this buzz to enhance the buzz of certain opiates (most pronounced with oxycodone, out of the 8 opiates/opioids I've tried).

I noticed e-cigarettes didn't feel the same as tobacco, and so recently read the nicotine page on Wiki to look for possible explanations. It turns out nicotine in isolation is not very addicting at all.

From wiki: "Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties.[54] However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.[34]" ... "Tobacco smoke contains anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine.[citation needed] It also contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman and norharman.[32] These beta-carboline compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers.[32][33] MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It is thought that the powerful interaction between the MAOIs and the nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking.[34] The addition of five minor tobacco alkaloids increases nicotine-induced hyperactivity, sensitization and intravenous self-administration in rats.[35]"

It may be that the presence of these additional compounds contributes more to your psychedelic enhancing experience with the hooka than nicotine itself. Harmala alkaloids certainly do interact with psychedelics strongly, though I imagine the 3 - 4 grams of harmala seed taken orally with a DMT containing plant like mimosa hostilis exhibits far more powerful MAO inhibiting action that the amount even a pack a day smoker takes in in 24 hours, but that's speculation. Someone with full text access to this article may be able to find numbers that could give a rough estimate of just how much less.

As an aside: In my opinion it's likely these compounds don't just make tobacco more addictive than isolated nicotine, they make it more fun. I'd like to see synthetic or extract forms of the above mentioned maoi's added to some select e-liquid nicotine solutions in e-cigarettes (perhaps a Chinese company could be counted on for this insidious deed?). While ostensibly evil, and would doubtlessly be a solely profit driven exercise by those who might actually try this, I'd think it might very well make e-cigarettes more effective in getting people off tobacco (more importantly, I'm curious dammit, and don't feel like eating harmala seeds to enjoy an e-cigarette). Even if people were just as addicted to e-cigs as tobacco, in weighing the trade off we have to balance that likelihood with the harm of smokers continuing to only have access to potentially much less effective cessation tools and, thus, more of them sticking with far more problematic tobacco sources for nicotine(though the safety of e-cigs over tobacco isn't verified, c'mon).

 

[Splitz]

I'm a heavy smoker (30+ a day) and have been since before I discovered psychedelics, so I can't comment on it really.

However what got me smoking in the first place was trying a cigarette when I was drunk. The buzz was like 'whoaa' for 30 seconds, and when I closed my eyes, there were loads of colours. That's quite odd really because even the most visual psychedelics don't give me CEVs that are noteworthy. I can see how a non-smoker might enjoy a nicotine buzz while tripping.

 

[p-helix]

Nicotiana rustica is amazing, one of the most powerful and deadly plant species. I made a liquid extract from the leaves, swishing around my mouth for ten minutes until, feeling something, I spat out. For two hours I lay face down on the bed, enduring a very strong tobacco buzz, uncontaminated by smoke and CO, immobilized but buzzing blissfully. It was a sweaty, stoning, powerful, nicotine and harmalas effect.

A few puffs before dimethyltryptamine. Harmine and harmaline in tobacco, like nicotine, symbiotically entwine with DMT. The smoke of N. rustica tastes quite sweet and pleasant plus there's no need to inhale all the way to the lungs, it's strong enough. You can even sublingual/buccal a leaf for a few minutes, imbibe, gargle, insufflate a liquid extract or rub a leaf on your skin!

 

[Jesusgreen]

Tobacco contains small amounts of MAOIs as mentioned above, and as such it potentiates most drugs temporarily. It's my theory as to why most poly-drug users find it even harder to quit tobacco than people who just smoke, as when you're drinking, or tripping, or nodding off, or stimulated - cigarettes boost that high even when you have significant tolerance, and it's a feeling you grow accustomed to every time you take that particular drug, one it's hard to do without.

 

[Crashing]

Tobacco contains small amounts of MAOIs as mentioned above, and as such it potentiates most drugs temporarily. It's my theory as to why most poly-drug users find it even harder to quit tobacco than people who just smoke, as when you're drinking, or tripping, or nodding off, or stimulated - cigarettes boost that high even when you have significant tolerance, and it's a feeling you grow accustomed to every time you take that particular drug, one it's hard to do without.

That's probably why I smoke after every meal, and after sex, and after a rollercoaster. Pretty much after or during anything fun or exciting, i want to smoke. Bastard things...

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I'm not a non-smoker, more like my tobacco use is spotty/happens in phases. But I smoke like a chimney while tripping, the only other time I am capable of smoking cigs with such gusto is while drinking, there's just something pleasant about it.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Nicotiana rustica is amazing, one of the most powerful and deadly plant species. I made a liquid extract from the leaves, swishing around my mouth for ten minutes until, feeling something, I spat out.

Criminy, that sounds dangerous. What if you accidentally swallowed?

 

[p-helix]

Cold ethanol, rustica leaves, 3 times, weeks, filtered; diluted 1:1 with distilled water - turning a brandy-looking liquid into something that appears to be orange but tastes peppery, loaded with nicotine and harmalas: a glassful lethal for the nicotine content.

10 or 15ml over 10 or 15 minutes using the swishing technique was the maxi-dose for me. Having given up tobacco for three years my tolerance was extremely low. Indeed ^ this was a shocking thought, TheAppleCore, as I endured a peaking, almost overwhelming intensity, but I thoroughly enjoyed the experience instead of dying. Physically I felt good afterwards too.