Psychedelics for Self-Destruction

[Jakeperson]

Most people here would know about the uses of psychs for self-improvement and enlightenment BUT has any one ever used psychs for self destructive means and to what end? What led to the abuse? Why psychs? What were the positives and negatives? Why did you stop or why haven't you stopped? And what steps did you take to stop the self destruction?


I would love to hear some experiences with psychedelic abuse and the results of such. Feel free to include dissociatives but try keep it away from MDxx abuse as I have seen and heard of many stories of MDxx abuse.
I haven't heard of many psychedelic abuse stories though.

 

[Solipsis]

One trip shattered my sense of reality to an extent that will stay with me forever. But in the direct aftermath I just did not understand any of it, I just felt lost. Initially I did not dare take any drugs at all for a number of months but I grew desperate. In a way I felt reborn into a new world but I needed so much time to process all of it emotionally and rationally, and spiritually it was also hard to integrate. The feeling of desperation, of having lost myself into a NDE and not knowing where to look for pieces of my old self led me to (ab)use mushrooms in a dark or strange way. In returning to the process of destroying my self, I gradually started to form a new sense of self that seemed more native, voluntary, conscious - in retrospect I guess it involved a lot of metaprogramming even though I had little clue of what I was doing. I learned as I went and became spiritually / energetically balanced and centered at least that is how I perceived it. During this whole process I realized that the analogies between tripping and meditation/yoga etc were legion so to me they are connected...
Unfortunately later I got less centered again and I am sad about that, I am having a hard time finding that part of myself again and restoring it - for instance by meditating more often. I only mean to say that I am not pretending to have enlightened myself, I tried and had some personal victories but I also got exacerbated mental issues - in some ways (like with creativity) I feel quite free but regarding some other things I can be profoundly confused. It feels a bit like a joke: I am good at very complex ideas, theories, problems and concepts but I have a lot of trouble with normal simple things in life. All that tripping blew mypre existing tendencies WAY out of proportion, like I am an exaggerated me. Anyway I digress.

I have seen friends around me and myself psychologically lost and trying to find our ways out of the rabbithole by 'methodically' attacking and weakening the 'ego'. It has had all kinds of results and it's as they say both a piece of heaven and hell but for such a thing to really work I think we all could have used better guidance. And when I said methodically well most of the time it was just a good bit of acid and K to wipe yourself out completely... at the time it seemed like maybe more convoluted answers to questions and delving into metaphysics and existentialism could lead to something to quench our deep peacelessness. But I guess it just gave us a whole lot of experience and that at least counts for something. Personal revolutions could not be catalyzed beyond a certain point in the sense that you just need the right ingredients for a ++++, you cannot really force something like that.

Hopefully you don't think this is side-tracked, perhaps you meant self-destruction in a different way than I do. Well, it's not really entirely clear why psychedelics seemed like a good 'remedy' to straighten things out... there is an element of escapism in it. I detached from the world, so my link seemed to be the same way I broke through the first time, so to speak.

If you are talking about people who would use psychedelics in a self-destructive way, I would immediately think that either they chose the wrong type of drug and opiates or dissociatives or sedatives would lend themselves for it (not recommended at all of course), or it is not real ultimate self-destruction they are after but a sort of tabula rasa effect. In other words: to self-destruct and rebuild yourself and try to heal in the process. Which is why I told you about my story.

 

[MusicGuy]

A friend of mine is ending up in rehab mainly for general drug abuse, but his worst and biggest abuse was 2c-e. He just started using it to run from his problems, just to get high, he'd smoke it, snort it, plug it, sometimes take it oral. Near the end of the whole abuse he was a wreak, constantly depressed, suicidal. He's now on a few benzos and some anti-psycotics, all of which he just abuses. The one good thing that did happen though is the push for him to sober up. Tripping has this effect on you that makes you think about drug use, at least in my circle of friends it does. He'll be sobering up soon, he got himself a good girl, is getting ready to go be a quantum physics teacher at a college nearby. So I guess it's not all bad.

There's also another guy that I've met a few times and I haven't talked to anyone who hasn't seen him with a hit or more of acid in his mouth. He's very withdrawn but unusually smart. Anti-social in a sense that he doesn't know how to comprehend his thoughts to others, not that he doesn't have the skills to. If you ask him about his relationship with LSD he get's very upset and rather angry. I wish I could get close to the guy and find out more. It seems as if he knows so much.

I've seen several cases of psychedelic abuse leading to destruction but most of them seem to be stimulant based psychedelics. Such as the 2C-x series, MDxx, things of that nature.

 

[Jakeperson]

Both great responses.

Solipsis that was actually the perfect response as I have recently experienced something very similar and it was great to hear how you pulled through that.

I recently had a suicide attempt with huge amounts of phenobarbital and clonazepam, in which I stopped breathing for a period but luckily the paramedics were ready and did my breathing for me. I woke up around 2-3 days later in a complete ego-death like state. I didn't know who or what I was and even though I recovered fairly quickly, I still struggled for some weeks after to remember who I really was and what I used to be like. I have had to completely learn to re-love my girlfriend again as I couldn't remember how I felt for her. I slowly regained myself but still in a somewhat partial way, I'm not a 100% convinced that this isn't some kind of very similar alternate reality. Back then I was using pretty much every thing I could get my hands on for self destruction.

My depression degraded a bit around 2-3 weeks ago and I began using MXE, 2C-E and 2C-I pretty heavily, mostly the MXE. The MXE has definitely been a lot more destructive than the other two but like you I have kind of found they have helped bring some suppressed memories, thoughts and feelings to the surface and force me to deal with them, something I haven't done since I was a small child. I have stopped using all of them for now as a few days ago I did a slightly higher than normal MXE dose and ended up in a very emotional, manic and psychotic state which involved a lot of crying which is what has brought me to stop for now. Although I think that the 2Cx's or even acid may be somewhat beneficial, I feel that my psyche is a little too sensitive at the moment from the MXE experience. You are very right in the tabula rasa effect because I effectively did push myself until I broke down and was forced to release things that had been pushed so far away.

I can definitely relate to the feeling that "maybe more convoluted answers to questions and delving into metaphysics and existentialism could lead to something to quench our deep peacelessness" (well put by the way) but I think I have learned from the last few weeks that, that may not be the case. I may use psychedelics in this purpose again but only in a situation calling for it as it wasn't overly helpful to my mental health in the short term.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Solipsis, that was a really great post, and it really hit home, as I've had a very similar experience myself and honestly thought I was the only one.

Psychedelics, just like many other drugs, produce euphoria and a general sense of escape from reality, so of course, they can be used to run away from problems, just like one may run to their favourite brand of whisky. It really is weird experiencing that though, you seek to escape, and yet the psychedelics you use to escape will hit you back with twice as much force, throwing you right back into what you're trying to escape from. I see psychedelics as a very stubborn teacher, if you try to take the quick route and skip the learning process, if you try and escape your issues, they'll beat you down and make you start over. Until, one day, you eventually realise the whole learning process is that everything you have to learn is already you.

During my "self-destructive" period I was taking 2C-E and 4-AcO-DMT every 2-3 days for a couple of months, it got pretty hectic, but 4-AcO-DMT kicked my ass a few times, including one time where it utterly shattered everything I ever believed, a trip I am still processing nearly a year later. I've learnt my lesson now though, and this year I've tripped about 5 times in 10 months.

 

[hypnagogic]

First post here but figured I'd share my experience with abuse of psychedelics.

Around September of last year I obtained a decent amount of several chemicals, including LSD, 2C-E, 2C-I, 4-AcO-DMT, JWH-018, JWH-122 and methylone. I began using these with increasing frequency, to the point where the psychedelic state seemed almost natural to me. By November I was tripping two or three times each week, primarily on 2C-E with doses exceeding 40 mgs. In December I began using small doses of 2C-E and 2C-I throughout the week simply for the stimulant effect, in addition to large doses for a full trip. An average trip for me around December involved 40 mgs of 2C-E, 250 mgs of Methylone and lots of vaporized JWH, and it was around this point where things started getting weird.

My physical health was affected as I felt weaker day to day and even passed out a few times from light-headedness. On average I only slept three or four hours each night and my dreams were almost always lucid, accompanied by out of body experiences immediately upon falling asleep. I became somewhat manic and constantly had too much energy. I began to show symptoms of psychosis even while I wasn't tripping, including delusions such as finding hidden messages in songs. I became withdrawn, often opting to trip alone on weekends rather than go out with friends. I began noticing synchronicities in everything, leading me to believe my life had some great importance to the workings of the universe. I felt as though tripping was helping me figure out the nature of reality. I had trips where I'd experience personality splits with three or more identities that I'd switch between, one of which would reveal the possibility to gain powers through destruction of the ego and so this became my obsession. I felt more creative and happy day to day, despite my odd beliefs. Finally I had a bad trip where I became completely incoherent to friends who were with me, speaking in fragmented sentences about how I've destroyed myself to save everyone else. I blacked out about a half hour into the trip and over the next two weeks seemed to recall memories from the trip without any idea where these memories were coming from. Finally a friend told the story of what happened and eased my mind a little.

I decided to take a break from using psychedelics after that trip, but the out of body lucid dreams continued and were often psychedelic in terms of visuals and subject matter. After about two weeks of being off everything I began to realize just how strange my behavior and thoughts had been. I started having panic attacks and experienced sleep paralysis with frightening hallucinations. I still noticed synchronicities and at times couldn't understand tv shows or music I normally enjoyed, instead relating them completely to myself. Realizing just how much psychological damage I'd done, I became severely depressed and nihilistic. I became concerned about the possibility of schizophrenia or other mental illnesses. I was prescribed Xanax, Seroquel and Welbutrin. After a month and a half of being on those medications I started to become more emotionally and mentally stable. Another two weeks and I was off all of them. By the end of April I felt almost completely normal again.

Some minor effects remain from my psychedelic binge. I often notice slight visual distortions, ranging from halos around objects and tracers, to movement and psychedelic patterns on carpets. Occasionally when I have too much caffeine I experience anxiety attacks that involve struggling with existential issues, though these have become rarer and less stressful over time. Certain songs I used to listen to frequently while tripping also cause a similar existential anxiety, though this has also been going away. I've tripped several times recently on DMT, ketamine, methoxetamine, and mushrooms with no lingering after-effects. I've taken care to space out trips and never use psychedelics alone anymore. I smoke weed almost daily without feeling any paranoia or lasting unusual thought patterns, though I've been cutting back lately.

Those few months were incredibly surreal and I'd definitely never want to experience anything like it again. I've certainly never had a greater appreciation for sobriety.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Although I'm not contributing a lot to the thread here I'd like to say thank you for the long first post, it was a really great read and I can understand the situation you were in completely.

I actually found 2C-E quite compulsive when I first tried it, before taking a break for a while. I've noticed a lot of other people have said the same thing, that while it isn't physically addictive, the fact that tolerance seems to build a lot slower than other psychedelics, along with the dopaminergic effects result in it being quite psychologically compulsive. Would you say the same thing? Also were you taking 2C-E orally or nasally? I was taking it nasally, as were the people I mentioned, or at least most of them (one even IVed large doses), and I've noticed that since switching to oral dosing it lacks the same desire to redose or trip so often.

 

[Sepher]

Can't say I've ever done psyches in a destructive way. Some of those around me at the time I was really big into them late teens / early 20s would probably disagree, seeing only negative effects through the lens of their own misunderstanding of my motivations, which from the first time I dropped acid were always about going somewhere beyond the mundane, somewhere properly magical I couldn't get to any other way.

I think they were in part responsible for me not having a very firm grip on my own identity, but then I was 19 or 20, who does at that age? They were directly responsible for me coming into contact with more destructive scenes when E culture was dying and the inner cities were awash with Heroin riding in on the coat-tails, and later on crack, if anything I would have preferred even then to have what I was used to to and actually wanted available again, as opposed to just going with the shit that was about as the dealers moved to more profitable substances.

These days part of my continuing fascination with psyches, and lately rediscovered use of them now that properly good quality RCs are available to me is by way of exploring how I ended up in so dark a place as a 10-year clean 7 year long heroin addiction, and latterly alcohol addiction isses. I know I have to keep a lid on it, given my obvious addictive tendencies, but never had a problem with psyches, or feel that I abused them They're not disposed to the same kind of abuse anyways for, not if I want to use them only as a means of positively exploring my inner self in a way that helps me grow, not just get something to get fucked up off my head in a way that diminishes or detracts from that.

 

[AlyDrops]

Most people here would know about the uses of psychs for self-improvement and enlightenment BUT has any one ever used psychs for self destructive means and to what end?

Aye. At first I was just trying to escape. Eventually I was taking combined massive doses of multiple drugs and multiple types of hallucinogens (beyond psychedelics) trying to make myself go insane so I'd never have to deal with the real world again, like being in a constant delirium for the rest of my life. For the record, I know how to achieve this easily now after talking to many people with... disturbing after effects of abuse. I'm very glad I didn't know how to do it at the time. I'm not going to mention how because I don't want anyone to read this and end up destroying their lives, but believe me when I say with full confidence that it would absolutely work. I do everything I can to stop people from going down this kind of path when I see it in the works.

What led to the abuse?

Depression. Extremely severe depression. Feeling suffocated, trapped, like I had absolutely no way out. I hope you don't mind that I choose not to go into what exactly was causing these feelings, but suffice it to say that I pretty much chose this path because I didn't have the guts to commit suicide.

Why psychs?

Why not? Let me summarize everything I knew about psychedelic drugs in general at the time I first took one: I was aware that they existed. I had no intention of using them for any purpose whatsoever, I just wanted to see what they were all about. When I started getting used to them basically all I ever tried to use them for was to further damage my mind in a way that was enjoyable but still destructive, which they very much are if you want them to be.

What were the positives and negatives?

About psychedelics? The positives were that they CAN make you go pretty crazy if you continuously abuse high doses of them. The negatives were that if you try to totally control their flow, they never work exactly the way you want them to. The kind of "going crazy" that most psychedelic abuse causes isn't really a totally-removed-from-reality kind as it is more of a paranoid schizophrenic/psychotic kind, which can get you pretty far out there but it wasn't what I was looking for; I wanted a mind that was happily obliviously insane, not neurotically afraid of everything in life.

Why did you stop or why haven't you stopped?

Because, as I said before, psychedelics never let you be in control. Eventually the message that my plan wasn't going to work was repeatedly slammed in my face until I realized that the only way to truly escape my terrible reality was do something about, not just ignore it.

And what steps did you take to stop the self destruction?

I made the necessary changes to create a better life, with the help of some absolutely amazing friends who I owe my life to several times over. I still have anxiety attacks that are infrequent but very intense, but I do have Xanax to stop them, and besides that my life is definitely far better than it ever was before, to the point that I'm practically in shock that things could be this great. I feel like a totally different person than when I started using and I wouldn't trade my experiences for the world.

 

[Jakeperson]

Thanks guys, great responses.

And sharing some pretty deep emotional stuff, I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to share these experiences here.

Keep them coming, this is a really interesting discussion and one I have not seen on BL before

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

I experienced something similar to the story Solipsis shared very recently. I was ingesting Metocin, Miprocin, and Methoxetamine over the course of two days, and I began to build a self-sustaining generator of time (infinity) based on the sacred geometric trinity. This led to ideas of reference so intense that I identified completely with The Machine Consciousness, and was subsequently abducted and replaced by time traveling aliens from the Heaven's Gate cult; they initiated me into their fold so that I may become deified. Now I am working on myself, because this whole experience has so radically altered my basic model of perception that I cannot experience reality in any other way. It's not bad I feel.. It's actually begun a very serious life change that I desperately needed. I am now motivated again to do well with my life, and I am excited about the future. So I sort of destroyed myself, but I was reborn and am now rebuilding. I'm moving out of my terrible, stifling environment, and following my dreams to travel and write my book. I'm also finding work in the medical field again, and am getting back into learning in the field of Cognitive Science (which I had abandoned as of late due to depression and amotivation). You're a wizard Harry.. and also, Who's googling who?

 

[GolemGolem]

I resonate with AlyDrop's story.
I was a terminally depressed, self-loathing and lost teenager, and young adult. I thought I could kill the parts of myself I didn't like very much with DXM (also used other drugs, but, destructively DXM) and that somehow I would be left as dumb as I was, and people would quit telling me I was smart. It wouldsomehow be the art that would allow me to sell bad paintings in suburban galleries. I worked on this goal for a few years. Stopped working on it, got more fixated on just killing myself properly, with a gun, or a rope...but never quite doing it, but fixated enough to keep me from advancing myself for a couple more years.
In all. I have lost some cognitive function, and I would like it back. I'm pretty jumbled up, and never made much of myself, no great works of art, but I'm well respected at my shit-job for working my ass off and keeping friendly, and well, for being smart compared to most produce stockers in rural Arkansas. I'm fairly sane these days, and use drugs fairly responsibly. I get drunk a few times every few months, trip about as often.

 

[Solipsis]

Thanks for the candor, golem. Your story reminds me of all the times I have thrown myself into an escapist K-binge. Often it involved watching a TV-series about a guy with special potential, but without any memory or identity - I wanted to identify myself with that but the issues were never worked out. I only revelled in the identification with someone of high capabilities but never adressed my issues of self-expectation and perfectionism that often work to paralyze and I have wasted a lot of time rumbling with myself instead of applying my potential to see where it takes me in life and what I can achieve. It is like I could not live with myself if I tried to go all the way and ended up considered above-average but not special. There are arrogance and narcissism standing in my way, and really I should get over myself.
Psychedelics are also involved with this used to try and push the envelope, to be able to make leaps. Well it seems like only one in 10 million times, the result can be an idea that is truly novel and revolutionary but all the other times it ends up only being a complex fantasy that collapses on itself, of course there are carefree trips where the psychedelics journey has no pretense of being relevant to the world...

Let me put it this way: the topic of using true psychedelics in a self-destructive way, that is a very interesting and daring subject, while dissociatives are relatively commonly used in a self-destructive way. How does escapism relate to self-destruction? Is escapism - offering nothing more than temporary relief - like purgatory? Ketamine is effective as an escapist drug, you can dwell in your inner-world and are disconnected from the outside, but to what end? You can try to lose yourself there, it would involve a sort of meta-programming ketamine is known for and I guess rather than changing or composing aspects of a personality it might be possible that you disable everything. Where does that leave you? I think that perhaps it would create significant potential for mental illness, assuming the changes are irreversible (or at least: persist even after the effects of the drug wear off), I suppose if you deny yourself crucial elements of a healthy personality you could become quite a disturbed person.

At some point this thread might be handed over to TDS but we can wait with that, it's up to the OP, I guess it is your thread so you're the captain.

 

[Limitbreaker]

I've used MXE for that few times. I think. Bad trips emerged of course.

Oh, wait.

I'm going to do this right now.

Cya.

 

[yepyepwoah]

I really like this thread. Did not know what to expect when I clicked, but it's good! I do not know if my story really goes with this topic, but will share anyway.

About six or seven years ago, long story long, I was frequently going mushroom picking with no fucks given if I lived or died. Didn't care if I ate the wrong kind, ate too much of the right kind, etc etc. Was fairly soon after high school and I was just in a crazy place in my head. Real depressed, didn't know what to do with myself. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but far from the dumbest. Always heard I had a lot of potential, but couldn't figure out what to do with it. Ended up back at my parents house after getting out of jail for something stupid, broke as can be with nothing to do. Came up with the idea of finding a field and just letting the pieces fall where they may.

I mean, I didn't just randomly pick them, I did my best to make sure I didn't die, but it was mostly just "oh this looks right, hrm. fuck it let me eat it now and find out." I can't remember how many times, maybe ten or so, I would just go about 2-4am and pick mushrooms and usually eat them while I was still at the field. No idea of weight or amount, just ate a few big caps and said fuck it. I remember the first time on the comeup laughing like I hadn't since I was a small child, but that didn't last long 8( Got real crazy soon after. One of the trips I was laying in the top bunk of a bunk bed with my brother asleep under me. Thought I was dead for over an hour. Like, I was a ghost and I had actually died in a car wreck on the way to the field and had never actually made it. Couldn't make any noise to wake my brother for confirmation, as I was a ghost afterall.

Most of these trips I can't recall specifically, or really put my finger on if they helped or hurt me. All I know is that i KNOW I would not be the person I am today without that rash of stupidity, and I would like to think that, all things considered, I have turned out relatively OK at this point. One time in particular though, I came home just as the house was waking up, and was forced to, for the only time ever, lay in bed and just experience what came without moving around. I vividly recall the feeling that spread from my stomach, to the base of my spine, then all the way up my spine filling my brain. It was a beautiful moment, and helped me to understand a lot of things, it's rather hard to explain. For one, it made me belive 100% in everything I read about mushrooms helping with cluster/migraine headaches. Made me understand the healing power that I was blatantly disrespecting. I remember that trip being "native american" oriented. I had been to a shit ton of psychiatrist, psychologist etc etc trying to "fix" myself. Reading a lot of books on brain chemistry, prescribed drugs, supplements, illegal drugs etc etc etc. That trip showed me that there was nothing to fix! All our crazy adhd style problems come from the complicated and complex lives we live, and "back in the day" things were a lot easier. Now this is not neccesarily true, but I belive you will understand what I took from this.

Since that point, I have concentrated more on just living and less on fixing. It is something that will stick with me until the day that I die! It is something that could be explained ad naseum, but I didn't understand until I EXPERIENCED it. So possibly, if out of all that self destructive behaiviour, that is the one thing I take with me from that point in my life I belive it to have been worth it.

ps: I would vote to leave this thread here. As I belive was previously mentioned, our intentions might have been self destructive, but the substances usually have other plans

 

[GolemGolem]

Hmmm, with actual psychedelic drugs...I normally had trips where I came down with the message that I needed to start living right, do my damn homework, work out, practice, practice, practice. That conviction for a few hours that you'll do it too, you've seen the light. It always made me feel worse then when I got frustrated and fucked off, failing me and my family. Withdraw from that potential life in shame, get life you can handle as drug addict, trip, hope again...I have a feeling I'm not alone here.
The least self-destructive trips I've had we're never about me. I' make and meet new gods weaker than myself, and I whistle at the moon.