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Psychedelics and Shamanism

High Yogi

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
196
Here is an essay that I wrote some time ago about the use of psychedelics and shamanism. I came across it this morning and I was wondering what the fellow bluelighters have to say about it or to share some of your additional thoughts or ideas on the matter.

Special plants and substances alter your state of consciousness, allowing you to perceive the world differently from the way you do now. By stepping outside of your normal state of consciousness, you can perceive that of which lies beyond your current understanding, allowing you to grasp life with a larger field of vision. A fish cannot tell it is in water until it has been pulled out of it. Once the fish is put back in the water, it can perceive the ocean like it never has before because it now knows that life is bigger than the ocean; the fish has been beyond and transcended the water. The same holds true for us. If we can take an entheogenic compound (plants or substances used for divination) and alter our consciousness, we can then later see our consciousness in ways never previously imagined. Or, Imagine a pond of still water. The water cannot identify itself because its only in of it’s self. However, if you were to throw an outside influence such as a rock in the water and cause it to ripple, each ripple in the pond would allow the pond to see itself, through the fact of its change. Your mind is like that pond of water and it can be changed by an outside influence (or rock) of mind altering substances. The substance will change your perspective and it is from that change of perspective where you find the vantage point of the true self. But why would you want to change your mind? Well, that’s the whole reason we’re here on earth, is to learn and change our minds. A wise man changes his mind, a fool never. If we can change our minds we are developing an understanding and growing. We are not changing our minds in the sense that were changing ourselves, but rather, were changing our minds because we are learning and adapting to all of this new information brought upon us through these experiences. One psychedelic experience has enough potential to do more for someone than 10 years of therapy or meditation. However it’s also not just about consuming the plants or substances, there is an art to it. You must have a certain understanding on them and the way to do them. This is why a guide is ALWAYS important for first timers. And just because you do them doesn’t mean that you are doing them right, and if you are doing them wrong then you gain an understanding to the smallest degree. On the contrary, if you do them the right way, you can gain an understanding on a universal scale and level. You can know the ways of the world and universe without having stepped outside your house. You can perceive that of which nobody else imagined and you can do that of which nobody else perceived. This is in a sense magical, because magic is that of which isn’t understood or recognized as true. For example, if whistling was unheard of and nobody knew how to do it, then the person seen whistling would be known as a magician of some sort and everybody would line up to see the great whistling man. By having an understanding of the true self, you can perceive the universe in ways most people couldn’t fathom and can link yourself up to that of which is divine. What im getting at here is that you can do that of which societies speak against and disregard as fact. But if your doing something that society says isn’t real, then is it in a sense magical? This is what shamanism is all about. The pursuit of cleansing the universe through an understanding of the self, brought upon by natural substances and botanical doorways. It is through this understanding and mental dimensions where communication is possible, and through that communication you can obtain information and link with the divine.
 
Interesting.
I agree with the paragraphs thing.

Also, if the key is to step outside our normal consciousness, where can we draw the line between psychedelics and other drugs such as opium or alcohol?
(I am aware that we can differentiate them scientifically, but I am asking the OP how s/he would answer this question in terms of his/her essay.)
 
Interesting.
I agree with the paragraphs thing.

Also, if the key is to step outside our normal consciousness, where can we draw the line between psychedelics and other drugs such as opium or alcohol?
(I am aware that we can differentiate them scientifically, but I am asking the OP how s/he would answer this question in terms of his/her essay.)[/QUOTE

lol the line we can draw to differentiate opium and alcohol to psychedelics lies in its psychoactive properties. Alcohol and opiates do not in any way open one up to the spirit world like Mushrooms or Ayahuasca. When we drink we end up losing consciousness and we are poisoning ourselves. When we take mushrooms we open up to the spirit world and teachers through direct cognition and awareness. Alcohol degrades us, while psychoactive entheogens may help improve us, as they show us higher truths and teach us a better way of life.
 
Interesting.
I agree with the paragraphs thing.

Also, if the key is to step outside our normal consciousness, where can we draw the line between psychedelics and other drugs such as opium or alcohol?
(I am aware that we can differentiate them scientifically, but I am asking the OP how s/he would answer this question in terms of his/her essay.)[/QUOTE

lol the line we can draw to differentiate opium and alcohol to psychedelics lies in its psychoactive properties. Alcohol and opiates do not in any way open one up to the spirit world like Mushrooms or Ayahuasca. When we drink we end up losing consciousness and we are poisoning ourselves. When we take mushrooms we open up to the spirit world and teachers through direct cognition and awareness. Alcohol degrades us, while psychoactive entheogens may help improve us, as they show us higher truths and teach us a better way of life.

It is common and very easy to black out from many psychedelics, especially mushrooms in higher doses.

Often times the sort of cognitive "awareness" that is provided by psychedelics is just as illusory as the blurred perception of alcohol. Many times alcohol dulls our cognitive processes while psychedelics can put them into overdrive to a fault - making connections everywhere that aren't viable. They might differ in the psychoactive properties but I'm not sure it's fair to say that psychedelics are some sort of grand teacher. It is very easy to become almost delusional in one's "revelations" under psychedelia.

I also don't see much room for discussion here because your shamanistic ideals rest on the assumed premise of the existence of the divine. I'm not sure you can just SAY that. If entheogens receive their pedagogic abilities through connection to the divine, it would seem they're rather useless if the divine isn't real. not to say it isn't, I'm not trying to argue against divinity, but I'm not sure where the potential for discussion exists in this thread without devolving into circle jerking about psychedelic divinity or turning into a religion argument, which we would all like to avoid here.
 
lol the line we can draw to differentiate opium and alcohol to psychedelics lies in its psychoactive properties. Alcohol and opiates do not in any way open one up to the spirit world like Mushrooms or Ayahuasca. When we drink we end up losing consciousness and we are poisoning ourselves. When we take mushrooms we open up to the spirit world and teachers through direct cognition and awareness. Alcohol degrades us, while psychoactive entheogens may help improve us, as they show us higher truths and teach us a better way of life.

I happen to agree with you in general, that alcohol is more of a closing than an opening, whereas mushrooms are more of an opening, and I certainly have experienced many, many more truths through mushrooms than alcohol, but I do not think the distinction is quite so black-and-white.

Also, what about people that don't agree with us?
What if they claim that alcohol relaxes them so that they can get in touch with their inner natures, for example?
Is there a way to define the effects of psychedelics that doesn't rely on such biased preconceptions or language?
 
It is common and very easy to black out from many psychedelics, especially mushrooms in higher doses.

Often times the sort of cognitive "awareness" that is provided by psychedelics is just as illusory as the blurred perception of alcohol. Many times alcohol dulls our cognitive processes while psychedelics can put them into overdrive to a fault - making connections everywhere that aren't viable. They might differ in the psychoactive properties but I'm not sure it's fair to say that psychedelics are some sort of grand teacher. It is very easy to become almost delusional in one's "revelations" under psychedelia.

I also don't see much room for discussion here because your shamanistic ideals rest on the assumed premise of the existence of the divine. I'm not sure you can just SAY that. If entheogens receive their pedagogic abilities through connection to the divine, it would seem they're rather useless if the divine isn't real. not to say it isn't, I'm not trying to argue against divinity, but I'm not sure where the potential for discussion exists in this thread without devolving into circle jerking about psychedelic divinity or turning into a religion argument, which we would all like to avoid here.

Agreed, but I think we can say that the shamanistic traditions of the world have, nearly without exception, chosen from certain classes/ categories of drug effects (psychedelic and deliriant).
The reasons for this may be worth discussion.
 
It is common and very easy to black out from many psychedelics, especially mushrooms in higher doses.

Often times the sort of cognitive "awareness" that is provided by psychedelics is just as illusory as the blurred perception of alcohol. Many times alcohol dulls our cognitive processes while psychedelics can put them into overdrive to a fault - making connections everywhere that aren't viable. They might differ in the psychoactive properties but I'm not sure it's fair to say that psychedelics are some sort of grand teacher. It is very easy to become almost delusional in one's "revelations" under psychedelia.

I also don't see much room for discussion here because your shamanistic ideals rest on the assumed premise of the existence of the divine. I'm not sure you can just SAY that. If entheogens receive their pedagogic abilities through connection to the divine, it would seem they're rather useless if the divine isn't real. not to say it isn't, I'm not trying to argue against divinity, but I'm not sure where the potential for discussion exists in this thread without devolving into circle jerking about psychedelic divinity or turning into a religion argument, which we would all like to avoid here.

I do not think you necessarily "black out" on psychs because "blacking out" is when you lose conscious control through over intoxication or getting your skull rocked. But when you lose consciousness on pyschs, it isnt from over intoxication, but more or less through deep sleep and non remembrance. The experiences we go through in those states of mind are so uncontrollably beautiful that our minds create for us a barrier to keep us from knowing or experiencing those dimensions. This is by far different than blacking out on alcohol.

You said that "Often times the sort of cognitive "awareness" that is provided by psychedelics is just as illusory as the blurred perception of alcohol. Many times alcohol dulls our cognitive processes while psychedelics can put them into overdrive to a fault - making connections everywhere that aren't viable. They might differ in the psychoactive properties but I'm not sure it's fair to say that psychedelics are some sort of grand teacher. It is very easy to become almost delusional in one's "revelations" under psychedelia." I disagree.

The psychedelics can help open us up to our higher selves and spirit guides, as well as an information/energy based network of highspeed communication and even hyperspace. How does alcohol stand against such a sort of phenomena. I dont even know why we are talking about alcohol, alcohol is miniscule and ridiculous compared to these experiences. Comparing alcohol to psychedelics is a fools argument. Go into any sort of bar and look at the people you see there. Low life, depressed, experience depraved individuals. and the ones who are not; drunk fools who can hardly walk. Go to any shaman ritual and see the type of experiences they are having; creative experience based unity with the universe. You can even set the alcoholic up against the hippy and feel what kind of energies or vibes they give off. The alcoholic is negativfe and the hippy would probably be more positive.

You also said "I also don't see much room for discussion here because your shamanistic ideals rest on the assumed premise of the existence of the divine. I'm not sure you can just SAY that. If entheogens receive their pedagogic abilities through connection to the divine, it would seem they're rather useless if the divine isn't real. not to say it isn't, I'm not trying to argue against divinity, but I'm not sure where the potential for discussion exists in this thread without devolving into circle jerking about psychedelic divinity or turning into a religion argument, which we would all like to avoid here."

If entheogens DO recieve their pedagogic abilities through connection to the divine, how would they seem to be useless if the divine isnt real? that doesnt make any sense. Either they can recieve the abilility, or the divine isnt real, there cannot be both. I submit to you that they DO receive the ability and THEREFORE the divine IS real! Im SURE there are many others who have learned things never thought possible or could never have concieved of before if it werent for psychedelics. Shamanism is living in the divine. A shaman is the bridge between this world and the spirit world. Not just mine, but ALL shamanistic ideals rest on the assumed premise of the existence of the divine, this premise isnt just assumed though, it is realized through experience! The only religion I speak of here is the religion of the self brought upon by direct experience and self realization through psychoactive properties found in natural plants and substance that may be used for divination. What is your argument here? How is there no room for discussion in this?
 
I happen to agree with you in general, that alcohol is more of a closing than an opening, whereas mushrooms are more of an opening, and I certainly have experienced many, many more truths through mushrooms than alcohol, but I do not think the distinction is quite so black-and-white.

Also, what about people that don't agree with us?
What if they claim that alcohol relaxes them so that they can get in touch with their inner natures, for example?
Is there a way to define the effects of psychedelics that doesn't rely on such biased preconceptions or language?

Well look at how they affect us and why they make us act the way they do. I think that alcohol is a poison, whereas magic mushrooms are a psychoactive. Alcohol affects our psychosis through poisoning it or degrading it, where mushrooms would be not degrading it, but giving it a something extra for a time being. That something extra is what makes us have prophetic vision and hallucinations, but the alcoholic poisoning and degrading of the consciousness just weakens our senses and makes us feel more comfortable, or relaxed. This state of relaxation isnt even real peace either, its temporary and unsatisfactory. This sort of relaxation is the same comfort a baby feels when he gets his bottle of milk or pacifier, its just another thing to cling to. We cling to alcohol and so it relaxes us and makes us feel good. This is just an immaturity and we need to grow up. We grow up and mature through non clinging or being attached to things. This is also what the mushrooms teach us. The affects of psychedelics cannot be defined in any way other than language, for any definition one will ever give will only be language. If you want the definifition of mushrooms without language then you are looking for experience. Eat them and see what they have to offer you for yourself, and i GUARANTEE it will be much more fulfilling than alcohol ;)
 
Agreed, but I think we can say that the shamanistic traditions of the world have, nearly without exception, chosen from certain classes/ categories of drug effects (psychedelic and deliriant).
The reasons for this may be worth discussion.

To get into this we will have to understand the shaman. The shaman is the spiritual chief and leader of the tribe. He is the medicine man and bridge to the spirit world. When the tribe or village has a problem, whether it be of someones sickness, who stole the chicken, where the animal game are migrating, etc., they seek the shaman for the unanswerable questions. They seek out the shaman because he isnt like anyother member of the village. He left the village sometime ago. Although he may live amongst them perhaps, he dwells deep within himself, deep in the spirit world. This is where he obtains his understanding on healing and medicine, plants and also the network of energy and communication. There are shamans all over the world and they all differ by geographic climate, terrain, food, and other conditions that help them create their own unique cultures. Each different culture of shamans use different plants and substances that are native to their region. Shamans of the amazon may use ayahuasca, while shamans of the desert may use mescaline. Herein lies the difference. Shamans become one with the substances they take. SHamans of the amanita muscaria mushroom would dress themselves in the colors of the mushroom; red and white. This is where santa clause comes from. Santa was a shaman of the amanita muscaria mushroom. That kind of mushroom grew on pine trees, and the shaman would collect the mushrooms and after having a handfull, he would place the mushrooms in the pine tree to dry. This is where we get christmas trees and decorations, to celebrate the origins of the shaman.SO the shamans can be classified by the substances and cultures they inhabit. The shamans use whatever tools they can that was given to them through god and nature.
 
I'm fairly sure slimvictor has eaten mushrooms before.

Now how is a psychedelic any less temporal and fleeting than alcohol? And how are the dulling of senses anymore preferable than the hyper-stimulation of them which leads to often megalomaniac and incorrect revelations? Because the divine provides them? But in that case what makes psychedelia divine rather than alcohol?
 
I'm fairly sure slimvictor has eaten mushrooms before.

Now how is a psychedelic any less temporal and fleeting than alcohol? And how are the dulling of senses anymore preferable than the hyper-stimulation of them which leads to often megalomaniac and incorrect revelations? Because the divine provides them? But in that case what makes psychedelia divine rather than alcohol?

LMAO that has to be THEE stupidest question ive ever heard!! id expect this from the morons of my everyday life, but not here on BL!

A psychedelic is by far less temporal and fleeting than alcohol for various reasons. For one, psychedelics give one insight into the nature of reality that can last him/her a lifetime. They can bring one to a level of spirituality that years of meditation cant even get him to. Secondly, the physical affects wear off sooner alcohol and the they are a lot less damaging on the body.

Also, i believe the dulling of the senses is less favorable than the hyper-stimulation of psychoactives because the dulling of the senses given from alcohol is caused by inTOXICation which limits ourselves and awareness, when the whole name of the human game is awareness and consciousness. Why would we want to dull the very thing that makes us human? In addition, the hyper-stimulation is heightened awareness, and also the expansion of consciousness. If consciousness is the name of the game here in human life, than why would we not want something that can expand our consciousness through means of creativity and beauty? ....ORRR, we can all just get hammered and go fuck some fat bitches before passing out in our own fluids,like grotesque animals; which is the alcoholic route.LOL, sorry, i am only trying to get a point across.
 
I do not think you necessarily "black out" on psychs because "blacking out" is when you lose conscious control through over intoxication or getting your skull rocked. But when you lose consciousness on pyschs, it isnt from over intoxication, but more or less through deep sleep and non remembrance.
People can TOTALLY black out on psychedelics, I have seen it myself a few times. Once with high dose LSD, once with IV 4-aco-dmt, once with 7g mushrooms... It's very scary and terrible to have to deal with someone in a fugue state...
FROM EROWID:
LSD can cause dangerous reactions when used by someone taking lithium or tricyclic antidepressants. Some people report having experienced seizures after ingesting these combinations. Individuals have typically reported an undesirable intensification of the hallucinogenic response that is not akin to "getting higher for free". Such people have reported being unable to communicate with their friends, becoming uncharacteristically violent or going into fugue states (ending up somewhere else without knowing how they got there). In addition, the interaction of lithium and LSD has been reported by some persons to result in seizures in those who do not have a history of this condition
 
LMAO that has to be THEE stupidest question ive ever heard!! id expect this from the morons of my everyday life, but not here on BL!

A psychedelic is by far less temporal and fleeting than alcohol for various reasons. For one, psychedelics give one insight into the nature of reality that can last him/her a lifetime. They can bring one to a level of spirituality that years of meditation cant even get him to. Secondly, the physical affects wear off sooner alcohol and the they are a lot less damaging on the body.

Also, i believe the dulling of the senses is less favorable than the hyper-stimulation of psychoactives because the dulling of the senses given from alcohol is caused by inTOXICation which limits ourselves and awareness, when the whole name of the human game is awareness and consciousness. Why would we want to dull the very thing that makes us human? In addition, the hyper-stimulation is heightened awareness, and also the expansion of consciousness. If consciousness is the name of the game here in human life, than why would we not want something that can expand our consciousness through means of creativity and beauty? ....ORRR, we can all just get hammered and go fuck some fat bitches before passing out in our own fluids,like grotesque animals; which is the alcoholic route.LOL, sorry, i am only trying to get a point across.

Excuse me, but you don't have to resort to ad hominems when I can easily say the same about you...

1) do you know what the definition of the word intoxication is? Just because it has "toxic" in the etymology doesn't mean that it is limited to substances that are toxic to the body.

2) Keep in mind that I'm playing devil's advocate for the most part and of course I agree that psychedelics generally provide more insight than alcohol (what are you, stupid? 8) ), but I think you need to be a little less black and white about it too. At any rate, the point is that "revelations" made on psychedelics often do NOT provide long lasting insight into the nature of reality. They can, but I've had many great personal insights into my own emotions while drunk. Does this happen as often as during a good cubensis trip? Of course not, but it can happen.

I'm not going to address your last paragraph because you aren't actually making real arguments. Calm down, dude.
 
in·tox·i·ca·tion   
[in-tok-si-key-shuhn]
–noun
1. inebriation; drunkenness.
2. an act or instance of intoxicating.
3. overpowering exhilaration or excitement of the mind or emotions.
Doesn't that sound like the state produced by psychedelics? ;)

EDIT: WOOO 1000 posts
 
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