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Psychedelics and enlightenment.

I think psychedelics can make people more observant and when that happens they will probably feel as though they've been enlightened.
 
Screw this post, tl;dr of what I wrote is that some people take psychedelics too seriously and preach it, some not seriously enough, and some need to accept that people are different and there is no universally applied truth. Dezz's rant brought me down because I identify with psychedelics and some "out there" philosophy so I wanted to defend my ego, but as I've been learning (while sober) identification is bad and ego defense mechanisms are meaningless, unconstructive.
 
dezz said:
Psychedelics create a "feeling of enlightenment" stronger then enlightenment itself. Yes most who go on and on about how much knowledge they gained, can't tell you what that knowledge actually is. They often have a hard time describing what actually changed them. It's because you gained NOTHING. Honestly you are enjoying an afterglow of the trip. Nothing more. More often then not the feeling fades away after a month or two and your back to your old self. Unless you trip again ofcourse :')
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Maybe you use them wrong. I think everyone agrees that set and setting is important and that every trip can be different for everyone. Also it depends on the substance and on dosage. On higher dosage it may be easier to let go but it's also more confusing and you remember less content.
A normal dosage of 4-ho-met and a normal dosage of jwh-250 on the peak can open full access to whatever there is within. Nothing will force you to try it but the door can be opened without having too much amnesia and confusion. The set and setting at that point is also important. As I said, it didn't work from the beginning and from previous trips it was allways losing emotional baggage from the past.
Also you seem to expect others to describe what's happening. You don't seem to understand that you can't comprehend it that way that the person you are telling it could imagine it sober. It's like people won't become super christians by just reading the bible.

From a more technical point of view, it's like root access to the own software part of the brain. Trying to remove hate and replacing it with love and understanding that bad situations happen from bad presituations and so and that for example revenge cycle only gets solved when someone stops. Facing you fears and accepting them instead fearing them and hiding them somewhere in the psyche.

Also there is like a remembering that there is more to life than just this state of living, that there was more before and will be more later and that we are all part of one.

Even if that was just a hallucination at that point, you know it's a good wallpaper for life so to say. The fear of death is also part of emotional baggage.

So yes from a point of having that experience and all the emotional and self therapy work and really reflecting after the trips and applying things like not lieing anymore, I would count that as enlightening. For me psychedelics can be also enlightening. I feel awake from a dream where I always looked at the past and all my thinking got prethought by others or society.

At least my best friends knew what I did and they said it had a very positive effect on me. It changed me very much. The danger could be what if someone has a bad trip? Wouldn't it be a trauma and destroy his life in some way if it's too hard?

edit: I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I always spaced my trips at least months apart. I did it seriously, waited for a good set, made my favorite setting, just laying comfortably and having some good meditation music+closed eyes. And after the trips I reflected. I hardly ever had this confusion and amnesia because I didn't dose too high where the negative mental effects start. The mental intensity comes through the combination, that way nearly no bodyload at all and no mental confusion like thought loops. But it's still intense and there are interesting time dillations.

It's worth to try at least :)
 
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Yes most who go on and on about how much knowledge they gained, can't tell you what that knowledge actually is. They often have a hard time describing what actually changed them. It's because you gained NOTHING. Honestly you are enjoying an afterglow of the trip. Nothing more. More often then not the feeling fades away after a month or two and your back to your old self. Unless you trip again ofcourse :')
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Read this again, I think this is quite wrong, try reading more/talk to more people. Thinking hard is what I do and it used to be my primary activity during tripping and getting high, and a big part of that was recording it though there is much better stuff in my archives. I don't trip just to think anymore so I forgot I had all of this. But in light of this, I think you don't trip to think either, or tripping doesn't effect your mental capacity for thought. When I trip on light doses I can introspect much faster, within seconds I discover the root cause of any subconscious desires, it feels like everything is connected. When I trip harder we get into much more abstract and harder to remember concepts about what it means to be because that's what I like to think about; paying taxes and working aren't my primary interests.

Some out-of-context excerpts from my notes:
"the ultimate moment was me looking at myself and weighing against the universe, testing its worth."

"THIS PERPETUAL EYE IS THE ONLY PURPOSE IN ALL OF EXISTENCE AND I AM NIBBLING ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE EYELASHES. ALL ROADS, ALL MY PROBLEMS WILL LEAD TO THIS EYE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER SOMEDAY. NIBBLING THE OUTSKIRTS MAINTAINS DRAMA AND CONTENT BUT SHOULD I ONE DAY DECIDE TO FACE THE PROBLEM HEAD ON? [implying that I might die physically or mentally if I do so]

DOES EXISTENCE CREATE ITSELF THAT WAY? BY WONDERING WHETHER OR NOT TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM? THUS CREATING DRAMA AND CONTENT AND SPACETIME AND ATOMS?"

"perhaps when the ego is suppressed because of say, cannabis, it is easier for me to experience profound empathy because i'm tapping into the universal unconscious (because my identity partially ceases to exist and I become All.) In other words I'm experiencing less of my personal imagination and more of the real past experiences of others, recorded by their respective unconscious and saved in that collective unconscious."

"I have scratched the surface of the 4th and 5th dimensions, on [designer weed and 2c-c] I believe. First I saw all "frames" of time in my life's perspective (but only within the last few minutes) appear simultaneously, but continuously adding of course. Then I felt the 5th dimension, as I was travelling along my own path in this universe, with all of the big and miniscule choices and events of my life in this universe making up my path, while the choices and events of myself in other universes constantly split apart from my path making their own. Meanwhile I was continuing my travel through the unique life of my own tunnel. It is said that for every choice we make, this universe splits apart forming a new universe for each possible outcome/choice we make. All of these split universes formed together would be the 5th dimension according to string theory, and I saw the tree-like path of the splitting universes in real time."

"a super high feeling of being more and more and more and more in the NOW IN THE NOW IN THE NOW time constantly, where it almost feels like one big instant. increasing awareness? Time slows down and is more step like."

"with drugs, i am thinking of a bunch of molecules, as i myself exist as a bunch of molecules! a bunch of molecules fantasizing and worshipping a different bunch of rare and specific molecules just for the way they are arranged. When my own collection probably possesses every element contained in most such molecules, just not arranged the specific way that makes me desire them so.

so the universe cares much more about arrangement and numbered order than anything else, like quality or like values of any kind of the individual entity in any given situation."

"it's like I'm passing whatever the current version of [me] is on at the time, constantly, to the new me's as time passes on."

"thoughts had while tripping can be recorded, but not conclusively. there are an unimaginable, infinite amount of thoughts to be had and the entire depth and range they can get to are impossible to record in a lifetime."
 
Yes I do think ALOT when I'm tripping but maybe you guys are right. Perhaps an experiment with change of setting and set is required to perhaps change my opinion on this. When I look at what you wrote I don't understand what you are saying AT ALL. To me it sounds as intoxicated ramblings and profound experiences but... no real knowledge which is usefull in everyday life or enough to change you.

I think you're a deep thinker as it is and psychedelics amplify that ALOT, add to that the amazing visuals, the feeling of enlightenment and hell everyone can be fooled. I'm not saying you aren't gaining anything from psychedelics, don't let my opinion bring you down. I'm merely throwing it out there that psychedelics are given too much credit for you're own thoughts and you're own actions.

On high doses it doesn't give me any realizations at all, it just makes me think ALOT, or nothing at all. Maybe both at the same time, or just too fast. I don't know, if I do think of something usefull it gets drowned almost inmediatly in a million thoughts. Perhaps it's the setting or set, I think I'll take a shot at this one more time and reevaluate my opinion.
 
dezz said:
On high doses it doesn't give me any realizations at all, it just makes me think ALOT, or nothing at all.
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I know it sounds paradox but it's not about the dosage. Higher dosages were actually more confusing for me than anything else. Yes it may be intense but somehow at the peak the mindtrip is darker and more confusion.

Yes sure, it also depends on the setting anyway. Like I took the same dose 2c-e on two different settings. When I was alone at home laying with my headphones on the couch, there was a mindtrip. When I was walking in the park with my friends there was no trip at all. For me the mindtrip is always more interesting because it has more value for life when I face my inner problems which I supressed. I was in a depression for example and took 2c-e because I knew about psycholytic therapy. The trip was intense as mentally I was in front of a court with my ego splitted in all the single emotions and how they affect me positively and negatively. It was a little higher dose so it was hard to remember but after that the depression was gone for good :)

So I don't think it's just about the dosage. It's also about setting, set/intention.

So about the 4-ho-met combo: I'm not into neuropharmacology but there is something different with JWH-250 generally. It has a "trippy" touch. I'm not sure how to describe it but it may have a little dissociative effect when you have NO cannabinoid tolerance. I never took mxe so I can't compare. But anyway, in combination with psychedelics the mental effect always gets clearer but more intense. The feeling is sober somehow, so it would be dangerous for some people who think they need to add more to feel something. But actually at that moment you should lay down, start some meditation music with headphones and try bruteforcing where it takes you. It doesn't force you in this state, you can always open your eyes and it's over, you close your eyes you are there again. There is no need for me to lie, I just want to share what I found out because I think not many people tried this combination by accident.

I know there are enough people who work with psychedelics for personal growth instead of just seeing how the walls wobble around :) I just leave this here as a "thank you" for all the information you provide here for interested people. The internet is a great thing.
 
As for the guy who thinks that MXE is the only way to attain true "spiritual awakening," you should really stop taking drugs. They can make you pretty delusional if you let them.
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As for the guy who clearly reads over the part where I say I know other drugs can enlighten you,
give me a break. lol
You guys can't even read what I say correctly so don't worry, I don't expect an intelligent answer in return to what I said. It's quite obvious a lot of you still have yet to reach this stage.

Somebody who is enlightened?
Terrance is. But he's not going to give it to you straight like that and scare you away. But trust me, he is, and he's using it to preach to you guys. Go call Terrence delusional.
Worry about your own sanity, not mine, thanks.
The fact you have to keep saying I'm nuts implies your own insecurity.
But don't worry, it's ok, I'm totally secure with my sanity. So is everyone else in my life.
The responsibilities I handle every day without fucking up prove it to me.

I don't have to care about you telling me whats what.

GEe there's thousands of videos on youtube about opening your third eye and enlightenment.

People do it on Yoga, Buddha and drugs.
Some just do it meditating.

Yet you still can't believe it?
How is that?

I'm sure you guys can believe in a christian god and santa claus though right? LOL!
Oh yeah I'm arguing with folks who can't read and understand what I'm writing though I shouldn't get so worked up.

Dyuuuhhhhh pull my finger.

Terrance can talk to you for days straight and put every idea you have down with a more authentic sounding idea that he knows. There is a reason for that.
Where do you think he got all that shit? In school? YEAH RIGHT! That fool is totally enlightened. It's all those mushrooms and DMT and shit he took.
If you think he got all these ideas in school you are nuts. You are the one who is close minded, brainwashed and needs to wake up.

You are thinking exactly the way your bullshit upbringing was designed for you to.
Break out of the box. Why do you think these drugs are illegal?! They don't make you flip out and go insane when you take proper doses. They aren't addictive and they don't fucking kill you. Why are they illegal then when alcohol isn't?!

Why?
Think about it!
Why the fuck is it illegal for me to grow some mushrooms and eat them in my own home away from the view of anyone in the world? Specially if I don't sell them I keep them all to myself?


Why the fuck are more bad drugs flooding the market to make these things harder to get and more obscure?

Why the fuck are we being sprayed be chemicals daily by airplanes? Don't believe it, need references? Need proof? It's out there!

Don't be too dull to see it. That's exactly what they want.

Hmmm they'll let you smoke yourself to death with cigs while they tax you down the hole but you can't eat all the shrooms you want and search for enlightenment.

WHY!

Because fucking enlightenment makes you QUIT DRUGS AND CIGARETTES and see through the bullshit.

I don't like speed and coke and bullshit anymore. Give me some shrooms or some DMT or something natural I'm going to learn something from. I happen to love MXE also because that shit works fuckin' wonders! I start learning things like crazy. The people who use it here and don't want to admit it do also. I see what they write. I'm not stupid. It will be taken from us soon anyways I'm sure.

I'm going to enjoy it while I can. I don't give a fuck what anyone says I'm addicted and crazy lol. Who are you to tell me that, you don't know me and you aren't my doctor.

The more people tell me I'm nuts for the stuff they see going on right in front of their own eyes the more I believe they are brainwashed. I know I'm not crazy for sure. Bring it on, I love people telling me I'm nuts now. I feed on that shit. I eat it up.

I'm sooooooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooo insane that I had the intelligence to write all this.
That makes a lot of fuckin' sense now doesn't it?

I'll put you in your place like Terrance will but I'm not worried about it because I know you can't even read it line for line, let alone understand any of it. Way over your head, I get it.
 
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Not everything is a conspiracy. This is excactly the delusional mindset that I worry about with psychedelics.
 
The irony is when you finally accept there is no enlightenment you wakeup to everything around you, life is happening right now..
 
"The irony is when you finally accept there is no enlightenment you wakeup to everything around you, life is happening right now.."
- Wyh does accepting a subjective form of enlightenment contradict the fact that life is happening right now. But sometimes you need to kind of wake up from the life the TV showed me. Everyone can think about everything on their own.

@ewo: You should understand that from their point of view their opinion sounds logical and from your your opinion. It's just because they didn't have the same experience as you. How should they understand something that you even can't easily describe in words? I mean before you had that experience you could have also thought like that maybe when you were in their situation.

All I can tell you guys is: I experienced something that changed me positively but permanent. You should check it out yourself, it's not something dependent from dosage. It's like you have to take a journey in your mind but where also bad experiences from life could be seen. But through facing these problems and your judging over your own character you can change yourself to the better. From that you can go on till the point where you could mentally lose fear of death and go kind of deeper.
I think many, when not all, religions are influenced by this state. Whether if induced somehow by accident or with psychelics.
Do it when you feel you are ready, it's not running away. The concentration is on life.
 
dezz said:
Not everything is a conspiracy. This is excactly the delusional mindset that I worry about with psychedelics.
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He'll probably get better, but there are always a few permanent mental casualties. Heavy dissociative use based delusions do tend to get dissipate if one is abstinent long enough. I'm always impressed by how some folks can use so many words to say so little.

Of course, one of the great lessons of psychedelics is not to take things seriously, I think it's one some folks just take a lil' longer to get around to.

Anyhow, I'd like to go back to your first post for a sec
dezz said:
then you're basically not the same person anymore."
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That is in fact a principal goal a lot of us went into psychedelic use with. Not that there really is a stable personality that is unchangeable, there isn't.

dezz said:
"Maybe some thoughts are hidden for a reason, to be discovered later in life, I think this is the reason why most bad trips occur."
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If you look at a lot of the kinds of thoughts these experiences engender, it's safe to say a lot of them would not have occured except without psychedelic catalyzation. Are these thoughts the important ones though, might the most profound occur on their own? I don't think so, not at all, and I don't think you can go about these things too quickly either. You are on to something though, at least I hope so, I think the attempt to reach an end/answer/ultimate synthesization of the psychedelicized experience and sober existense, and to do so ASAP is just a natural part of the youthful existence. I sincerely hope that as I put on another couple decades onto my life I'll learn better, that there will be a point where settling down can occur, and all this vain strife will peter out.

The beauty of youth is like cherry blossoms, dazzling and brief. The beauty of age and wisdom is like the pine, which stays green all year round, unpretentiously and steadfastly radiant even through the winter.
 
"Of course, one of the great lessons of psychedelics is not to take things seriously"

- And one of the great lessons of psychedelics is to take things seriously. Take your life seriously, take your problems seriously and concentrate on getting better. Maybe the intention before a trip is also important. I am sure it is important as much as the set and setting.

"I think it's one some folks just take a lil' longer to get around to. "
- Yes, I think that too but more in the mindset that people can realize that there is more in psychedelics than just having visuals. There is a whole old culture behind psychedelic usage. We from here don't have any culture about that. We know what to take maybe but the rest is more bruteforcing.
And I accidently found the 4-Ho-Met + JWH-250 combo. I mean some time in the amazon someone found the combo of dmt and a maoi to make it more clear and intense. They did know what worked but they may not knew what science was behind that about maoi. It's the same with my combo. I don't know why it works but I know it does and I think it is very interesting. It is interesting because it can be more intense without confusing too much like high dosages of tryptamines. Like on high doses it was more like I didn't knew what to do really. Sometimes I forgot or had thought loops. The ego is slowly breaking down maybe at that point and it does end in an "ego-death" but at that point the breakthrough is like dmt but I could barely remember the trip contents. It was like the more you came down the more you get back to reality and forgot what happened on the "layer" before.
On the combo it's different. You close your eyes you have an intense but not harsh or in any way negative experience. It's not about visuals. It's not like you see diving through tunnels of eyes or seeing entities.
You can always open your eyes and it's off. You close your eyes it goes on. I don't forget who I am. I am still me but the bigger me, maybe the soul me. I'm not sure how to describe. I was in a place were I understood that religions try to describe the same thing from a different perspective. I think you can find a light reference in many religions. Some have connections with it as god, in the bardo thodol it's the you (?). It doesn't matter. It's all about this experience. And as the bardo says at that point I just felt that this was right and had trust and let go. The form of mental let go as if you were going to die and accept it. From there on it actually began. And I'm not sure how to describe it but it changed me in many ways to the positive. It changed my character to the better and that way my acting in life also changed to the positive, at least my friends and my family say so.
When I look back my life looked like I was mentally in chains. But at that experience there was this moment where I realized that ego is just a program. It's self programming from the experience of life and what we learn. It is dynamic and changable. Manipulation is also a way of manipulating the ego and if you look in the politics and media, don't you find any manipulation? Don't we get programmed by this somehow. Can we let go from this and try thinking everything from our own? Could we realize that everything we learned is just the state of knowledge of the moment and could always change in the future when it's obsolete?

That state I'm talking about also changed my feelings to life. I love life now. I am pretty sure for myself that there was a before and there will be an after because of that experience. This doesn't mean that you are going to lose your touch with reality or something. That showed me actually how great this experience of life and duality is. Like at that place there was only the positive feelings. But how are you going to know what is warm when you don't know what is cold? Even depressions can be great because from depressions you learn the most actually. It doesn't have to be negative the same way as a badtrip doesn't have to be negative when you know it was about facing problems from the past which you burried. I lost my fear of death and replaced it with love and respect for death. I don't want to die soon because I want to spread my good ideas. I mean if you read things like this happening http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-civilians-idUSBRE82A02V20120311 it shows me that something is wrong in the world. And there is much more about different topics.

I think it's okay for you guys that I write this here, I normally don't talk about this. So there is this combo. I think it works better than doing tryptamines on their own. If anyone is seeking such an experience or trying to change his life to the positive they can maybe learn from my experience and try it on their own. As I said it's not about taking high doses, the higher doses were more confusing than the normal doses. Don't forget meditation music, it's really and influence on the trip.
 
eLeSaH said:
"I think it's one some folks just take a lil' longer to get around to. "
- Yes, I think that too but more in the mindset that people can realize that there is more in psychedelics than just having visuals. There is a whole old culture behind psychedelic usage. We from here don't have any culture about that. We know what to take maybe but the rest is more bruteforcing.
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Kind of like religion, it doesn't make it true.
 
I don't know. We have so much information here around for how to use psychedelics, dosage and stuff but that doesn't mean that there is a bluelight religion or whatever.
What's the problem about sharing of the dosage/compound and setting? I had a nice experience and just want to share it as I think many could benefit from it. The set would be left, how you feel and what experience you made in life. I'm sure someone who feels fine would not tend to have a badtrip as someone who feels bad that day.
If people can get a trauma from very bad experiences, could people feel better if they have a good experience? Subjectively the experience happened. It was real from that point of view that everything is perceived. If it is somehow reality or not, I don't want to waste my time on such questions as there is no way to proof anything or hardly consciousness science or how the software part of the brain works. But you can try to have the experience on your own and maybe have the same positive effect. It is permanent as you experience it and every experience can change you. Even if it's not real, it does change you in a way. For me it was very positive.
 
Im a frequent user of psychedelics and it hasnt lessened any of the amazingness of my trips. I wasnt in much of a crisis when I had my first lsd experience, but it made things so much better for me. I feel like it gave me the tools to be myself more than I ever have. And time hasnt diminished it at all, in fact I have started believing in religion again as well. And fuck all of you who will be dicks about this comment.
 
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