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Psychedelic drugs for the treatment of schizophrenia.

B

baileylsd

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
381
Hey all, I've been thinking about using LSD for treating someone very important to me with schizophrenia. I'm here to ask for peoples inputs, thoughts, etc.

Ok, so the reasons behind my thinking this way, is schizophrenia is a very serious illness which has no cure. Medication can help people 'function' in society to a certain degree with the help of very powerful anti-psychotic drugs, which come with a huge amount of side effects. This is just a band-aid with no end of the problems in sight, which causes many sufferers to commit suicide (there has been a number of attempts with the person I would like to help) with the thought of living a life in a consent medicated state.
After years of Psychedelic drug use myself, I see such great power in them. (I don't think I need to explain the in's and out's as most of you will understand what I'm talking about)
I for example, used Psychedelics to deal with and overcame many years of depression, (among other things) and now live a much richer and happier life.

After thinking for some time about using LSD for treatment of schizophrenia, and then reading research papers of such treatments done in the 60's which showed evidence to support my idea. I feel it could be highly beneficial to sufferers of this terrible disease.
Now I understand this is potentially a very, very risky idea, as it could backfire and make the situation worse for people. However if successful it could change the lives of these people forever.

Please no flaming etc. If there is anywhere in the world where this can be discussed openly, bluelight is the place. I'm no fool and would never risk in vain the health, mental or otherwise of anyone on this planet.

So, thoughts, comments, inputs.

Thanks :)
 
From everything I understand about schizophrenia, psychedelics will only exacerbate it. Psychedelics are, in fact, a common trigger to activate latest, underlying schizophrenia. The advice I have almost always seen given on this is to stay away from psychedelics like the plague once schizophrenia sets in. Stay away from marijuana as well, FYI, as well as stimulants.

I'd like to see the papers you read that support this, simply because I haven't seen such a thing before.

I will also say I have heard a number of anecdotal reports from people that DMT (small tokes) have reliably temporarily cleared up their symptoms. However I can't in good conscience recommend that you proceed with this in any capacity at this time.

Good luck to you and your loved one. <3
 
I'd also agree with Xorkoth that the best advice is to stay far, far away from psychedelics. Trying to use LSD to fix schizophrenia would be very risky. We don't understand schizophrenia very well, and we don't even understand LSD very well.

HOWEVER... it's an interesting idea, and I wouldn't want to throw it all away. There have been studies (or a study?) that show LSD users to have a higher level of mental health than non-users. I haven't read the study(s), just remember reading the headlines or abstract. Maybe there is no causation here, maybe there is.
 
Horrible idea.

You found one out of date research paper, now go see how many you find that state the obvious.
People with serious mental illness such as schizophrenia, should avoid using psychedelic drugs.

I've personally seen it push people with underlying condition farther from reality.

You said you will be doing this under a trained psychologist? Are they aware that you are planning on administering psychs to someone who has been diagnosed as schizophrenic?
 
Did anybody read that MAPS study? The anecdotes are pretty promising. I for one would like to see this happen. I know it's not the most popular opinion, but I believe psychedelics hold a lot of potential for treating psychiatric problems.
 
I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia in the past. As a child I lacked self awareness, self determination, and long term memory most of the time. I was totally a product of my environment. I behaved as those around me, simply reflecting the last behavior I observed. Thus, if I was near successful people I appeared successful. It became a big problem upon leaving the structure of my parents home. In college I parroted my peers and, for some, as much as they hated to do it the manipulated me. Before I knew what I was doing I had become homeless. Then I revolved between homelessness, jail, and institutions. This cycle only added to whatever was the problem and for years things got worse.

In retrospect I recognize my child hood was different. I had very few memories, usually of violent or abusive times and rare occasions when the the stars aligned on sweet days. I never was given the opportunity to have sexual relationships. I didn't recognize details such as faces. My handwriting was illegible and I could hardly read. I didn't have any private life and didn't understand others as existing outside of the moment I was with them. If I worked with it I could learn repetitive tasks. I scored above average on my college entrance exams, but was aggressively coached.

Here is the list of the legal medications I have some memory of using. Abilifiy, Depakote, Paxil, Latuda, Zoloft, and Zyprexa. I am certain there were others I don't remember. None of these were effective.

While living in an open minded environment people must have kept mentioning psychedelics knowing they were my only chance. As expected I mirrored their interest. The challenge was psychedelics exacerbated my symptoms at first. I also became aware of my symptoms. The community wasn't experienced and things started going bad for me. I lost access to psychedelics. Then for a while I lived around the wrong type of people. I was quickly exploited manipulated and then disposed of. The cycle of homelessness, jail, and institutionalization continued. After several failures and restarts I gained some traction. After consuming psychedelics about every 5-10 days over several years consecutively, drinking and bathing in distilled water, and eating imported non-western and non-Chinese food many of my problems have gone down the toilet. This transition isn't possible without appropriate medical intervention and the only effective tools I am aware of are illegal psychedelic drugs.


This is the important part. I have failed several times. This occasion has lasted several years and I haven't recovered 100%. Your friend will get much worse at first If whatever knocked me down is their problem. They will become aware of their problems. With awareness the suffering they already experience will become externally obvious. People on the outside are more comfortable if people such as me don't communicate their pain. Most communities will persecute you, crucify you, and blame you as your friends problems become externally obvious. If you live in America your government will set you up for failure in ways you can not predict. Your government will try to vilify and prosecute you.

Remember this part, you could give your friend a glimpse of salvation, then fail and condemn them so they live the rest of their life inescapably incapacitated with a brief glimpse and memory of salvation. You could also prevail.
 
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I don't believe psychedelics "trigger" schizophrenia anymore than simply being alive "triggers" it. It's a genetic condition that usually starts appearing in your late teens/early twenties. Obviously it's very dramatic if you say "He took LSD and never came back dude" so people much prefer that explanation than something boring like "It's a genetic illness that will happen whether or not you take drugs". Just look at all the silly bollocks you hear about Syd Barrett.

And there's the other problem that schizophrenia rates have remained constant or fallen slightly in most countries over the last 100 years. If psychedelics or indeed any drug at all caused or triggered it you would have expected to see a change in the figures from the 60s onwards.

Having said that, I have a close friend with schizophrenia and I don't think he'd enjoy tripping at all. Perhaps that's just the kind of person he is rather than the schizophrenia.
 
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article4.shtml

References:
1) Abramson, H.A. (Ed.) (1960). The Use of LSD in Psychotherapy. New York: Josiah Macy Foundation.
2) Bender L, Faretra G, Cobrinik L. (1963). LSD and UM-L treatment of hospitalized disturbed children. Recent Advances in Biological Psychiatry, 5, 84-92.
3)Bender L, Goldschmidt L, Sankar SDV. (1962). Treatment of autistic schizophrenic children with LSD-25 and UML-491. Recent Advances in Biological Psychiatry, 4, 170-177.
4) Cholden L, Kurland A, Savage C. (1955). Clinical reactions and tolerance to LSD in chronic schizophrenia. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, 122, 211-216.
5) Cohen S, Eisner BG. (1959). Use of lysergic acid diethylamide in a psychotherapeutic setting. AMA Archives of Neurology & Psychiatry, 81(5), 615-619.
6) Freedman AM, Ebin EV, & Wilson, E.A. (1962). Autistic schizophrenic children: An experiment in the use of d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD-25). Archives of General Psychiatry, 6, 203-213.
7) Gettys T. (2014). MDMA Helps Reduce Social Anxiety for Autistic Adults, and Researchers Want to Find Out How. MAPS. Retrieved at: http://www.maps.org/media/view/mdma...nxiety_for_autistic_adults_and_researchers_w/
8) Grof S. (1980). LSD Psychotherapy. California: Hunter House Publishers.
9) Mogar ER, Aldrich WR. (1969). The Use of Psychedelic Agents with Autistic Schizophrenic Children. Behavioral Neuropsychiatry, (8), 44-50.
10) Rolo A, Krinsky LW, Abramson HA, Goldfarb L. (1965). Preliminary method for study of LSD with children. International Journal of Neuropsychiatry, 1, 552-555.
11) Sewell RA, Ranganathan M, D'Souza DC. (2009). Cannabinoids and psychosis. International Review of Psychiatry, 21(2), 152-162.
12) Simmons JQ, Leiken SoJ, Lovaas QI, Schaffer B, Perloff B. (1966). Modification of autistic behavior with LSD-25. The American Journal of Psychiatry, 122, 1201-1211.
 
It's most likely not going to "trigger" anything in a healthy individual.

However, it will likely bring about the onset of mental illness if that individual has a predisposition for mental illness. These predispositions can be hereditary and environmental. When someone begins to exhibit behaviors that indicate mental illness, wether that had taken psychs or not, most times you can find red flags that may have gone unnoticed(I.e behavior problems, history of mental illness in family ect.)
 
I'm not so sure. I think if every recreational drug vanished from the earth tomorrow, the figures for the age of onset of schizophrenia and the numbers of people it occurs in would remain exactly the same.

I think what triggers schizophrenia is being alive and having the genetic predisposition to the illness. What's "triggering" it in people who don't take drugs?
 
Time and enviornemental factors, and that can include living situations, relationships, income, , overall health and so on

Perhaps an individual would not have shown signs of mental illness had it not been for the emotional and psychological stress that the psychedelic experience can bring about.
 
This thread is getting a bit off topic by turning into the tired old debate about whether or not psychedelics can trigger schizophrenia.

The topic is: treating known schizophrenia with psychedelics. Lets stay focused, this is interesting.
 
Ineffable14 said:
Perhaps an individual would not have shown signs of mental illness had it not been for the emotional and psychological stress that the psychedelic experience can bring about.
Click to expand...

You'd expect a massive spike in the figures in the last half of the century tho. We went from no-one taking LSD to millions taking it post-1960. Schizophrenia rates stayed the same.
 
Ismene said:
You'd expect a massive spike in the figures in the last half of the century tho. We went from no-one taking LSD to millions taking it post-1960. Schizophrenia rates stayed the same.
Click to expand...

It's a great point Ismene, but off topic. What are your thoughts on using LSD to treat schizophrenia?
 
I'll point out it's damn risky seeing how much dopamine activity LSD has. While the potential for healing is high so is the risk of causing more damage. Tread carefully and honestly I'd recommend mushrooms or even 4-aco-dmt if you were to choose a tryptamine based psych.... Even then there is huge risk
 
Yeah I'm guessing mushrooms or DMT would be better choices.
 
i wouldn't risk it, or take very lose doses and tread water. psychedelics can absolutely bring out the worst of your psychosis if you're not careful, or are feeling mentally unstable in any way before you dose. i have had numerous diagnoses given to me in the past, and have been on anti-psychotics for some of my life. my experiences with psychedelics have all been very extreme, some good and some bad. all i would say is, be careful. like others have said, i would stick to shrooms or something similarly innocuous.
 
From what I understand of schizophrenia itself, its a degenerative neurological condition where the brain is basically flooding itself with dopamine. So much so that the brain is organically different than a normal human. Too much dopamine produces hallucinations, voices and the like. So people are already running full tilt on the reward system of the brain.

The problem is bigger than simply taking LSD and seeing if there is some sort of change. These are people that eating food, smoking cigarettes, exercise, whatever increases dopamine thus the need for antipsychotics to level people out a bit.

But interestingly enough and this is the criticism in antipsychotics is that the brain really does need dopamine to function. The lack of dopamine and you run into Parkinson's disease, etc.

I don't think we have the tools yet to fully understand the whys. There may be a day when we have decent treatment options. But for now its pretty cheap and ineffective solutions.
 
my friend use LSD every few months specificaly for helping turn down paranoid voices down,she said she meditates and hear some kind of neuron noise sweep trough her brain stopping the voices! thats amazing but this girl is perfectly normal except the voices,also highly intelligent......... some schizo ppl are like retards,that kind I would not recomend LSD
 
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