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Psychedelic drugs and ancient Mayans

^^^^
um yeah seriously did that go unnoticed or somethng. holy shit. There should be a big and dandy revenge quest thread
 
^^^I think because it was a big chunk of words-paragraphstyle- that one just overlooks it. However, thats a crazy story- it almost sounds like a parable?? And yoyoman wtf r you on abbout?? :)

I would also suggest that the Mayans may very well have used datura, though I've heard that refferred to as 'Aztec dessert'. Pretty fucking crap dessert in my opinion, but each to their own.
 
e1evene1even said:
To my knowledge, mushrooms were the primary shamanic element to their culture and was central to their religious beliefs. One thing I am not certain of, is whether the use of k'aizalah okox ("lost judgement mushroom") was restricted to a priestly class, or used throughout all levels of society. They also used the venom of Bufo alvarius, which was likely dried and then smoked.

So in modern terms 4-hydroxy-DMT, 4-phosphloroxy-DMT, 5-methoxy-DMT and Bufotenine would be the compounds the Mayans are believed to have used.

The area where the Mayans lived has one of the highest concentration of entheogenic plants known on the planet, so they could have used other substances as well, but most of the knowledge of Mayan culture has long since been destroyed.

One thing that I find interesting is that Terence McKenna and the Mayans both developed a seemingly similar concept of time and both Terence and the Mayans used psilocybe mushrooms extensively.

One example where you can see mushroom use in the historical record is the the Codex Vindobonesis. The Aztecs also used mushrooms ritualistically under the name Teonanacatl, ("Flesh of the Gods"), but thats fairly widely known in comparison to the use by the Mayan culture.
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it would 5 ydroxy tryptamine, bufo alavaris isnt native, bufo marianis (or how ever you spell it) is.
 
My basis for the Bufo Alvarius claim came from the shamanism chapter of the book "Beyond 2012" by Geoff Stray which stated on page 147:
They [the Maya shamans and kings] also used the venom of a poisonous toad called the Bufo alvarious, which was probably dried and smoked.1
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Here is the footnote:
This is found today in the Sonoran desert of Mexico and should not be confused with the Colorado cane toad, Bufo marines, or Bufo americanus, the venom from which only contains Bufotenine. Mexico "represents without a doubt the world's richest area in diversity and use of hallucinogens in aboriginal societies." Devereux[1997] p.105
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Sorry guys I got way off subject, I have been doing some strange drugs lately and getting way off track. I know this isn’t a therapy group. So back to drugs! Mayan Drugs. I spent a year or so in Guatemala and the only types of drugs I saw were marijuana, cocaine and mushrooms. I think in old times they didn’t have cocaine and marijuana. My foster family I stayed with used mushrooms in church and in home ceremonies. Most Indians don’t go far from their small town so what drugs are in the land to collect are what they get, mushrooms and possibly morning glory seeds in the lower lands. I’m sure if a drug grew on the land were their was Indians the would use it if it was any good Indians don’t have much and they make use of anything they can get their hands on. Now days with city travel and military gangs you can get cocaine and marijuana quite easy. I think maybe in the large Mayan kingdoms the grand priest had more access to larger areas of drug collection but probably not much further then their rivals’ territory. With the mushrooms they say their use was old, older then the pyramids they clam their religion was as old as creation and pyramids and kingdoms would come and go in cycles, when certain gods became powerful they would grow and collected all the surrounding lands and when they died it would go back to the tribes until another god came and collected the tribes again. Everything is a cycle in the Mayan world gods became powerful and died and new gods were born. I think the Mayan kingdoms were about the same as the tribal communities except the pyramids replaced the small communal church and grand priests who controlled the ordained priest on local levels replaced the local shaman. Just a couple of my Mayan theories on drugs. :)
 
butane said:
I understood that before the Europeans arrived and destroyed their culture, they had a virtual eutopia of connectedness with nature and spiritual awareness.
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Although I agree that the Mayan culture were advanced in their understanding of time, mathematics, and architecture, they were hardly the enlightened utopian society that naive romantics make them out to be. Here's a tidbit of information from the Mayan religion section in Wikipedia:

The Maya practiced human sacrifice. In some Maya rituals people were killed by having their arms and legs held while a priest cut the persons chest open and tore out his heart as an offering. This is depicted on ancient objects such as ancient pictorial texts, known as codecs. It is believed that children were often offered as sacrificial victims because they were believed to be pure.
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Virtually (including the Aztec and Incan civilisations) all premodern societies regularly made use of the gruesome practice of live human sacrifice; not to mention rape and slavery as well.
 
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^^^Now we just put our kids in school so they sit there, dulling out their minds while waiting to have the surface of our knowledge skimmed over for them by some underpaid teacher. Soul sacrafice.

The rituals were deep in ancient cultures. Everyone believed the reasons for taking part in them. People willing to die for a nature controling god, to benefit others.
I'm sure they weren't as blood crazy as "civilized people" make them out to be. And I'm sticking with my previous statement. Nothing will ever be known about the mayan culture, its just abunch of speculations, just like the rest of science for the most part.
 
itsALLfake said:
^^^Now we just put our kids in school so they sit there, dulling out their minds while waiting to have the surface of our knowledge skimmed over for them by some underpaid teacher. Soul sacrafice.

The rituals were deep in ancient cultures. Everyone believed the reasons for taking part in them. People willing to die for a nature controling god, to benefit others.
I'm sure they weren't as blood crazy as "civilized people" make them out to be. And I'm sticking with my previous statement. Nothing will ever be known about the mayan culture, its just abunch of speculations, just like the rest of science for the most part.
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I agree about the education system we have today in public schools. But as for nothing being known about Mayan culture, you mentioned looking at the Mayan calender. So obviously some things are known about them, right?
And the fact that you put stock in their calender system but say that I'm just repeating merely speclutative claims as to their barbaric religious practices shows you just pick and choose what you want to believe about them.

I already said they were advanced in some areas of development, which I mentioned in my last post. But there is physical evidence supporting the claim of human sacrifice. As to the paper thin defense of beliefs, you can obviously agree that they were extremely superstitious and ridiculous by the majority of today's moral standards, scientific discoveries and true spiritual realizations. And none of these more recent discoveries and change in worldview involves murder in the name of religious devotion (except certain fanatical fundamentalist sects within the Muslim religion).

The people doing the killing no doubt absolutely believed in the need for their rituals; but I bet if you had the chance to ask one of those innocent children how they felt about knowing they were about to have their heart cut out of their chest while still alive you'd probably change your tune on the so-called advanced, utopian, nature loving, Mayan society.
 
The mayan calendar known to us because of the aztecs...hints the name "Aztec calendar."
 
just wanted to say something about sacrifice and how we view "death"----

2 weeks ago i was on 2ce and lsd and an idea came to my mind.
"death is the greatest Gift"
they both need each other in order to exist. life and death.
I just felt at the moment that humans (in general) consume and take more than they give.
So by dying...giving your life then you would give "gaia" your life and no longer consume and take but rather give the most precious thing we have "life"
I felt empathy for the universe and felt us humans as a disease slowing killiing it by consuming more and destroying in order to help thier own life rather than looking at the universe as ONE BEING rather than seperate lives.
I am not saying that we humans are "evil/bad" creatures but i would have to say we do consume more than we should. I am guilty of it.

But i also do not believe in suicide and want to expierence more. So i decided to keep my spirit inside this mortal vessel of mine to help add to the collective consciousness thru expierence.

And if we were really a disease/infection of the universe than it would get rid of us wouldnt it?
The whole idea started when i was laying in the grass with a girl and she was wiping all these ants off her arm killing them.
"goddamn ants leave me alone" she said.......i then thought..."they are only trying to survive, and then that thought proceded to look at the universes perspective. Does earth view us as pesty things and is trying to get rid of us...or does it understand we are only trying to survive? and how much will it put up with our destruction before it cleanses itself fro us consuming it>

i guess this is a whoe nother topic...but kinda tied into sacrifice which was mentioned earlier

just an IDEA i had.....but that is really all we do have to grow from IDEAS
 
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luckytaak said:
Sorry guys I got way off subject, I have been doing some strange drugs lately and getting way off track.
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man, thank you for posting that story. that definitely was heavy but it was enthralling. I've recently been interested in native cultures using drugs for healing/cleansing and initiation. thats an experience not many of us will get to have. I dunno if you've read Campbell but your story reminds me of the hero's journey.. the cross-cultural human experience that has persisted through time.. prewired in us.
 
dbailey11 said:
Virtually (including the Aztec and Incan civilisations) all premodern societies regularly made use of the gruesome practice of live human sacrifice; not to mention rape and slavery as well.
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There are many things about our culture right now that I am sure they would find just as disturbing as we find some of their traditions. Take for example the bizarre parasitic practice of drinking cow's milk! Humans are the only animal species that drinks milk past childhood, and it's not even our own! How disgusting!

That said, it was a trip. Take from it what you will. Perhaps their culture wasn't utopia, but as an "alternate reality," or, as a different "what-if" scenario of human cultural evolution, it is fascinating. There is much to be gained from studying it.
 
butane said:
There are many things about our culture right now that I am sure they would find just as disturbing as we find some of their traditions. Take for example the bizarre parasitic practice of drinking cow's milk! Humans are the only animal species that drinks milk past childhood, and it's not even our own! How disgusting!
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Don't got milk then, eh- it beats child murder though, yes?

That said, it was a trip. Take from it what you will. Perhaps their culture wasn't utopia, but as an "alternate reality," or, as a different "what-if" scenario of human cultural evolution, it is fascinating. There is much to be gained from studying it.
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Agreed.
 
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untaMe said:
I always found it odd that I often see ancient Mayan themed visions and patterns on mushrooms and other psychedelics.
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Same here, every time I tripped on 2c-e, I got Maya-type visuals.
 
untaMe said:
I always found it odd that I often see ancient Mayan themed visions and patterns on mushrooms and other psychedelics.
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Hey. I also get similar themed vision while on psychedelics, especially on 2ce. It seems like a mayan calendar. Any idea what it could be?
 
Amazing thread!!! I had some very intense wonderful mushroom trips in the 90's where I would repeatedly see Mayan glifs and other mayan themed graphics and the Aztec calender wheel thingie all the time. One time I swear the ancient gods were communicating with me. The cool thing about it was I could break my trance and go be with my trip friend and come back to it without having to really think of it. It's great to read that others have seen similar patterns as well. It could be just an association from seeing the patterns in books or somewhere, or maybe they are just such natural human patterns that they are unlocked in all of us when we concentrate.
 
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