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Psychedelic drugs and ancient Mayans

insanit_e

insanit_e

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
486
Hey there guys

For the past 2 years or so I've been especially interested in the use of psychedelic plants amongst ancient tribal and indigenous cultures/religions.

I'm about to head to Guatemala for some travel, and just out of curiosity, I wonder if anybody could give me some information on what kind of psychedelics the ancient Mayan Indian civilisations used. I have heard that they used mushrooms. What about things like peyote, or other more obsure plants? Was there much (or any) of a Shamanistic element to their culture?
 
To my knowledge, mushrooms were the primary shamanic element to their culture and was central to their religious beliefs. One thing I am not certain of, is whether the use of k'aizalah okox ("lost judgement mushroom") was restricted to a priestly class, or used throughout all levels of society. They also used the venom of Bufo alvarius, which was likely dried and then smoked.

So in modern terms 4-hydroxy-DMT, 4-phosphloroxy-DMT, 5-methoxy-DMT and Bufotenine would be the compounds the Mayans are believed to have used.

The area where the Mayans lived has one of the highest concentration of entheogenic plants known on the planet, so they could have used other substances as well, but most of the knowledge of Mayan culture has long since been destroyed.

One thing that I find interesting is that Terence McKenna and the Mayans both developed a seemingly similar concept of time and both Terence and the Mayans used psilocybe mushrooms extensively.

One example where you can see mushroom use in the historical record is the the Codex Vindobonesis. The Aztecs also used mushrooms ritualistically under the name Teonanacatl, ("Flesh of the Gods"), but thats fairly widely known in comparison to the use by the Mayan culture.
 
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I always found it odd that I often see ancient Mayan themed visions and patterns on mushrooms and other psychedelics.
 
people have been exploring their own minds since the beginning of time, self exploration leads to the person mentally growing. i dont know why psychedelics are so ilegal and are so bad to the main public. those cultures who used psychedelics like peyote, mushrooms, iboga, dmt were much mor eknowledgeable than the fucking american nation, where drugs are looked upon as such bad things
 
There is not much real info on Mayan psychedelic use, I believe there was some accounts written by some Spanish priest in the late 1500s other then that I think a lot of the other info is made up by spaced out gringos. The Mayans that still practice any sort of traditional rituals are very secretive. I know it has been recorded that they used shrooms, morning-glory seeds, maybe they could of got peyote from trade but doubtful. They probably used psychedelics similar to other native tribes in early America for healing and such. They probably shared a lot of traditions that the Aztecs did which there is more info on. Most native tribes think it is strange and weird the white man uses drugs to try to find god. Native people usually do psychedelics to find out who murdered their brother or find which demon gave them blowflies.
 
On a related note, when I was in Peru and took San Pedro at the Incan "Temple of the Moon" the visuals from the mescaline matched perfectly the motifs used in Incan artwork.

Its not surprising in the least though, psychoactive plant use has inspired man's artwork since the cave days. I think it was Terence that said along the lines that under a strong psychedelic, your brain can create more artwork than has ever been produced (a bad paraphrase but you get the idea).

What could be more inspiring? Another bonus is that all you have to do is trace...
 
Years ago I went to Guatemala with my girlfriend of 3 years to tour Mayan ruins. Mayans and their mysterious culture and history always fascinated me. One day on a hike of a volcano in the highlands a gang of Indian robbers held us up robbed us and raped my girlfriend. We made it back to town alive, and left for Costa Rica the next day, a month latter my girlfriend found out she was pregnant from the rape and refused to get an abortion. Needless to say that ended the relationship for a while my heart was black with anger and thoughts of revenge. I went back to Guatemala on a mission to kill those who did this to my life. The authorities told me that they could never get that group of robbers and suggested I seek a sorcerer. After a mouth I met a Mayan medicine man that said he could help me. I lived with him and his family for 1 year. He said my heart was dark and would not be healed until I went on a long warriors journey and I must learn the ways of the forest and the animals to safely make it back from my journey. I learned many things about the animals and sprits that where to help me on my trip. The mushrooms were a very important part of this learning, people vibrate too fast to understand the forest and the animals when you study with the mushrooms you can adjust you vibrations to different levels and understand things on those levels. I learned about the powers of the serpents that was his special animals and became mine, all medicine men have certain animals that give them power. After 1 year I started my journey of revenge and healing, I lived as a serpent until I had enough revenge that my heart was clear again. A medicine man can help you heal yourself of thing of their culture I don’t know about things from outside their culture. Some paths in life a dark and twisted, Guatemala is a very dangerous place outside of the tourist areas people will stalk you for more then a moon and kill you for less the $25 and be very happy about it. Be careful.
 
What if psychedelics helped provoke words/speech, just by seeing certain characters and primativly trying to annunciate them? just a thought:]
 
itsALLfake said:
What if psychedelics helped provoke words/speech, just by seeing certain characters and primativly trying to annunciate them? just a thought:]
Click to expand...

Google "Terrence Mckenna stoned ape theory". He speaks of something similar. However, his theory was that synesthesia (blending of the senses, in this context, sight and sound) was what allowed humans to begin using speech. Two humans would be under the influence and one of them utters a series of sounds. The other would hear/see this in their mind and interpret it. Now, how they were able to devise a system out of this is still open to debate. In fact the whole theory is, but i personally think its pretty plausible.
 
All the info in this thread is fascinating to me! On one of my first trips ever, long before I'd ever read anything about South American natives using psychedelics, I was trying Morning Glory seeds (or were they Hawaiian Baby Woodrose? ... 8(). The trip's visuals were slight and subtle, but were very Aztec/Mayan themed. I was outside in the summer, and even though I was actually in the Midwest, I felt like I had been transported to South America. A juniper tree branch appeared to me to be a snake type creature, almost dragon-like but not Asian at all, completely with the theme of things. I sat down and stared at it for a good half an hour, admiring its beauty. I felt like I spiritually connected to both the creature and the collective consciousness of all the shaman who had eaten these seeds before me, and I we became one. I understood that before the Europeans arrived and destroyed their culture, they had a virtual eutopia of connectedness with nature and spiritual awareness. The experience moved me deeply.

Although the logical part of me is telling me not to buy any of it, I have to wonder if natural psychedelics carry part of the spirit of the plant into the experience.
 
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butane said:
Although the logical part of me is telling me not to buy any of it, I have to wonder if natural psychedelics carry part of the spirit of the plant into the experience.
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this is also apparent with visions of the lady salvia
 
I've actually never read all of Mckenna's theories, and I think its weird how ideas happen like that.
and also I think its weird that this thread was created the same night I was playing with the mayan calendar, and found something quite nerve racking i guess you could say.
 
M) radio879: - 0:22 AM) txxxxx1: anything expressible and possible with in the defined system of reality has played out and as it nears the end we start seeing these loops and interconnection
(06:01:25 AM) radio879: haveyou read / seen the middle brown part of be here now by ram dass?
(06:01:37 AM) txxxxx1: we start getting daja-vu and you start to notice things like , this person said what I was going to say , or this number keeps repeating and such
(06:01:55 AM) radio879: yep its all happening now
(06:02:03 AM) txxxxxx1: but once we reach the critical mass the universe resets

Its 7:11 (on time..when i loook at the clocks)am sunday morning still tripping on a good dose of DOM (ohhhhhh ..... nice....... first good dose....)

and what? oh, well anyway yeah so like there's 'organized' ways of having the most fun out of "literally the last years we have" if we kinda all figure it out but i think well so far looks to me everythings..on 'schedule'... and...we will...

i dont fully understand it myself yet i've seen what i look like in 2011, never thought i'd have long hair styled llike that but hey not bad (i'm sure i'll understand it 'then', ....no joking there)

but probably well... Question, for anybody, you ever think of some idea that hasn't been used yet but seems so simple and should? (it is.... it has.. unique idea? really? look around..... really look... oh, it exists all around you suddenly sometimes.....give it a few days... suddenly you cant ignore your own inventions... !! (try it.. )

got a secret? ... well think its a secret as long as um, well, soon after your shown nothing's secret anymore.. nothing.... about you...

open source universe, kinda like open source software? www.dell.com/ubuntu

sorry i'll edit this if i'm well too off topic (i'll check after i post and edit if necessary) but its 7:27 (1's and 7's and..."coincidences! j/k") and time to end this.

read ventwenn the lines, the misspelings on AIM are more common ya ownder why? people typing wodrs backawrds or doubbble left out lettrs..

(anyone use uses IM chat programs often .... tell me you havent noticed?..? )

Maybe you have noticed an 'odd number of misspellings', ... more frequently.. but i dunno just kept on ignorgg? eventually i'd think EVENTUALLY* even the most ([-automated wake up go to work meet new other fake workers to do fake work for nothing whatever talk like we're someth**tird yeah ]} will have to be like aiight now i swear i had a dream last night where you said that exactt sentence! or wait how did you know she was 16 i wanted everyone to think she was 18!. or.... anywy try readng between the lines of those misspellings consiously if your amused by it or. dont, its in your mind anyhow..the beehive bee doesn't need to be conscious of whats really going on in the 'higher-than-bee-mind' for the mind as One mind to operate (but me personally shit, i wanna be aware of this all, and have as much fun in the process., make sense? right now it does to me..)
Click to expand...
 
Oh, 8:11am this does have to do with the topic but ... is it just me (or a lot of us for no reason at all?) or does the date of July 6th, 7/6 resonate within you.. 7/6 to 7/7 or maybe 7:06am to 7:07am 7/7 something "big" (do you feel it? i do but i dont know what it is good/bad/etc just 'big' coming)

i'm not claiming to be any expert on shit but been noticing more and more consciously (personally..) cycles within cycles within etc..,

We're somewhere in the the 5th day (7 "days" 6 "nights" etc) each day and night lasts 360 days long (until i think like Feb 2011, i forget, lol, different authors selling books i think differ too (heard arguments ... or maybe not anymore? or maybe i was wrong and they're not competing anymore and realized they should live what they write so strongly about i dunno)

Well anyway, something's coming 7/6, anyone else 'feel' it? know more? something big, its like i just become aware of it if enough similar minds are aware of the same thing)
 
and infinity=0 , I mean it's all so clear now. Everything is fucking nothing.......

Just Kidding.

As for Terences language developement theories, judging from the degrees of communication in non human animals and especially other primates, language has been evolving for far longer than we've been even close to being human.

Back to the topic, mayans and psychedelics, R. Gordon Wasson did some good work and realized that the Mayan fascination with "flowers" was actually a fascination with entheogens and he even ID'd the plants on the statue of Xochipilli (I believe one plant is still unidentified). Check out "Mycolatry in Meso America" I think that's what it's called.
 
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Heyoka said:
the statue of Xochipilli
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xochipilli1_sm.jpg

Thát one? That's not Mayan, it's Aztec. Dutchmen aren't Germans, Italians aren't Spaniards.
wink.gif


Offtopic: I touched that very statue. Interesting sensation.
 
yeah...aztec culture and mayan are usually mixed up...the mayans calender is mostly identified as the "aztec calendar. Even though they do have manymany simularities

It is impossible to find out which substances a lost ancient culture could of used. Everything is theoretical in that portion of mayan culture. Of course geographical location can help pin you in on somethings a civilization might have used, but climates change and placement of plants and animals follow.
 
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luckytaak said:
Years ago I went to Guatemala with my girlfriend of 3 years to tour Mayan ruins. Mayans and their mysterious culture and history always fascinated me. One day on a hike of a volcano in the highlands a gang of Indian robbers held us up robbed us and raped my girlfriend. We made it back to town alive, and left for Costa Rica the next day, a month latter my girlfriend found out she was pregnant from the rape and refused to get an abortion. Needless to say that ended the relationship for a while my heart was black with anger and thoughts of revenge. I went back to Guatemala on a mission to kill those who did this to my life. The authorities told me that they could never get that group of robbers and suggested I seek a sorcerer. After a mouth I met a Mayan medicine man that said he could help me. I lived with him and his family for 1 year. He said my heart was dark and would not be healed until I went on a long warriors journey and I must learn the ways of the forest and the animals to safely make it back from my journey. I learned many things about the animals and sprits that where to help me on my trip. The mushrooms were a very important part of this learning, people vibrate too fast to understand the forest and the animals when you study with the mushrooms you can adjust you vibrations to different levels and understand things on those levels. I learned about the powers of the serpents that was his special animals and became mine, all medicine men have certain animals that give them power. After 1 year I started my journey of revenge and healing, I lived as a serpent until I had enough revenge that my heart was clear again. A medicine man can help you heal yourself of thing of their culture I don’t know about things from outside their culture. Some paths in life a dark and twisted, Guatemala is a very dangerous place outside of the tourist areas people will stalk you for more then a moon and kill you for less the $25 and be very happy about it. Be careful.
Click to expand...


That's the heaviest shit I've ever seen someone say on a messageboard.

When does the movie come out? Sounds like you went on some kind of crazy psychedelic vengeance quest. Did you end up finding 'em all and cutting off their cocks? Make 'em eat donkey shit?

In any case, that's some harrowing shit to endure and I'm glad you found the revenge you had sought, although I'm sorry it all happened in the first place.
 
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