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Miscellaneous Psychedelic Abuse ~ a compulsion toward escapism ~ the swirling paradigm

@Chris Timothy
In the case of Allan Watts' hypocrisy, the bottle was a closer metaphor to a phone than psychedelics (unless he was treating alcohol as a substitute (really some people do use alcohol shamanistically)), there might be a message for you some place in there.

with our streams of consciousnesses and intelligent banter, we can only beat around the bushes near the place psychedelics and meditation can go. Sometimes it is like managing phone calls, i.e. you are too busy with other messages so don't even pick up the phone. let some messages spool into the service. Ordinary messages.

the stuff we seek with psychedelics is extraordinary, and there is no end to that, unless you put up a habit of rational resistance which will block it out effectively, we are good at blocking messages even very good messages that can be very personally beneficial. There is always more.
 
AutoTripper said:
True. In 1998 250-350 ug tabs suddenly emerged though.
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yeah even today some high dose tabs out of swizterland still exist. I knew a retired polish chemist who back in the hey days use to be heavily involved in LSD. He sent us a contact and those tabs were fucking really strong half a tab intense visuals full blown trip for sure the whole thing must of been 300 ug. Straight swiss crystal on white paper. Though the years of my really good irl contacts have died out as the people quit the game got to old like we are talking people who are now well into there 60s and 70s.

But for the average person in america street lsd is really fucking weak. Europe always had a diff game going though. In basel 250 ug tabs always pop up on the drugtesting sites. but that is the mother land of lsd.

Deadhead vials were 80 ug a drop in the 90's. American LSD was on average 35 ug through the 90's on blotter. All the dea statistics and files or seizures do not lie.

But europe different. here most our acid was always from English backpackers coming through on holiday one sheet of acid would pay for their plane tickets and and holiday with the nz street price. Was always pretty fucking decent at least 100 ug a hit.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
yeah even today some high dose tabs out of swizterland still exist. I knew a retired polish chemist who back in the hey days use to be heavily involved in LSD. He sent us a contact and those tabs were fucking really strong half a tab intense visuals full blown trip for sure the whole thing must of been 300 ug. Straight swiss crystal on white paper. Though the years of my really good irl contacts have died out as the people quit the game got to old like we are talking people who are now well into there 60s and 70s.

But for the average person in america street lsd is really fucking weak. Europe always had a diff game going though. In basel 250 ug tabs always pop up on the drugtesting sites. but that is the mother land of lsd.

Deadhead vials were 80 ug a drop in the 90's. American LSD was on average 35 ug through the 90's on blotter. All the dea statistics and files or seizures do not lie.

But europe different. here most our acid was always from English backpackers coming through on holiday one sheet of acid would pay for their plane tickets and and holiday with the nz street price. Was always pretty fucking decent at least 100 ug a hit.
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I agree with all of that, it matches my own observations over time. It’s been really useful, having these in my judgement fully accurately dosed Dutch tabs, I’ve subconsciously equated and guaged doses of many past tabs.

one thing I feel very confident about, after that 1000 ug comeup dose Saturday- the tabs I took in 2011 and 12, mega strong, one tab 24 hour life deep trip basically, I was told they were 250 one batch, 300 the next, were def stronger.

then some insane ones came, which I reckon had to be 350 ug. I took 3 one night and it whacked me into oblivion for some hours of knowing nothing, but in a beautiful, and not difficult manner.

I swear 1000 ug is easier in ways than 300.

Saturday night, I was trying to briefly reply to a pm in another forum, coming up on that 10 strip, and I sensed I was about to drift semi conscious into the cosmos.

I did. Was lovely, that space where you know literally nothing.

I came back, more wittful, revived. I was vaping strong weed with a strong coffee just before to try keep me in the present moment. Didn’t work haha.

but...for those who insist acid cannot work for me, cos I do so much etc, this is the brief pm reply I attempted on that 1000 ug comeup:


“Hey wil my good sfrend here. Here. No poaloagies mate I know how busy you are . Mate-. Excese tpos atm, may neec t pstonee this artm, I just rpoosc 1000Ug LSD!

1 may headng into psycle obluipinsviulshnexx ummiten
t... just Vaing bluefream. Los yot sillle b....okat, a ne uausl eles here to sare vey aa
To mate... but really on comega oay Vebal xense us a ùp0zluns me,,, visbljy lol!
Time tide and....
Lol... me ed a truy to make vevabal seuse atm....


Okay....just came round after driting to pyechebellic "un"consciousness, sespite strong lack coffee, on that 1000Ug comep.

Cold brrr! Good sign. Gonna vape nore bluedream now, maybe kava soon.

Full on traces atm...more to come soon I hooe thaks again som uch take care mate, good thoughts Imwanna share on the vava too hang with me mate but have trust...”

Word for word copied.I can barely fathom it out myself! Now have any of you EVER seen me type like that? Think not.

and you can see, after I returned from sailing off, it’s much more coherent but still a mess.

so yeah @TripSitterNZ right with you on all that. From my trials now, I can look back and guage trip doses. So those tabs, all match these Dutch lab ones.
I fully believe the 1st batch was 250 ug.

the 2nd stronger one, Matches 300 ug doses. I was taking 3 of those to come up, but 2 was awe inspiring, 600 ug and it was every bit of that, looking back.

and in 1998, first Aliens emerged. I nearly got some. Next level. Half tab proper trip. Do not take 2 advice!

i guesstimate they were a good 250 ug.

then my couzins went to London and got some Freddie’s. all whacked on half tab, Matthew a whole one was like 24 hour rocker.

I guess them about 350 ug.

I finally got in on the action myself...NYE rave 1997/98, Cyborgs. Stronger than the Aliens I was told later, not quite up to the Freddie’s.

I reckon an easy 300 ug no questions 1 tab, very fast strong comeup. Shit morphing, stretching out and melting together. Queuing for coffee at hotdog stand, was like 8 TV sets of reality field segments literally swirling around randomly like a rubiks puzzle.

Proper proper trips.I took a 2nd 9 hours later, the moment I saw I would actually come back to reality lol But I will so wasted on that one tab I was incapable of getting the second tab out of the camera film in my large zip pocket on the front of my jacketSo I had to ask my cousin to unzip it and take out the camera film and take me a tab out because it would’ve been completely impossible for me to do any of those steps yet I was still brave enough to take the second tab LOL.

I basically came up Immediately on that second tab, And shit went absolutely crazy in a really brilliant way cousin drove us home and I’ve never seen road markings stretch out like 30 foot long and major trails looking out the window on the way home.

Went into a petrol garage to get some snacks and my God I can’t find words for how far up I was and What a challenging simple task it was to get a banana some crisps and a milkshake in cold daylight.

We got back to my hometown visited a household and I honestly could not recognise a single place or street.

So also, looking back...my 50 ug doses now, I think in my head...are like. 1 good clean, smooth Southpark acid tab from 2000. They were nice clean good acid, but prob 50 ug. I had fantastic nights on 4 or 5, candy flipping. Was no way near 4 or 5 of my 1cP though.

others, much weaker still. Others I reckon 110 ug.

some nearer 200.

So update, I collected my head shockingly well tonight. Just physically so so drained now. I think I’ll settle down okay again. Had my edible dose, followed by strong kava blend I’m working though and even a little vape right now.

I honestly didn’t think I would feel any sort of mental rest tonight.
 
the last time i had a legit high dose 300 ug + tab was in 2018 then my main dude stopped the game. Only fuck the visuals were intense at 25 minutes still had oevs at the 18 hour mark on one tab and mind you i had already taken lsd 3 times in the previous weeks leading up and my last trip was 5 days before this one so i had some serious tolerance. Fucking that tab cost me a bit of money though but it was fucking strong and pure i needed to be walked back home since i was looping after the car ride with my sitter on the come up.
 
Vastness said:
... , but self-delusion about one's reasons for using any substance is almost always a dangerous path to go down. ...
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I think this, rationalization of ones drug use, is a huge HUGE topic on it's own; perhaps with psychedelics as an especially interesting case.

Chris Timothy said:
Integration is in demand in the psychedelic scene at large, ...
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Ain't that some truth..!

pupnik said:
In the case of Allan Watts' hypocrisy, the bottle was a closer metaphor to a phone than psychedelics
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I don't really mind, but this seems to be a common pattern. Like saying "a cook that isn't fat can't be a good cook", the baby is out, ...with the bathwater. Long time ago I realized that there is always the possibility of seperating the message from the messenger, and that by going ad hominem I potentially prevent myself from reaching useful information. Abandoning critical discernment is of course not ideal either..
 
@bongdong Alan Watts was my sweet gumdrop introduction to Buddhism, and I will always appreciate him for that.
A close second was Philip Kapleau - all neck and neck with Lobsang Rampa, Padmahansa Yogananda, and Kahlil Gibran AND last but not least, Carlos Castaneda.
Each with a firm and compelling grasp upon the ineffable, and each, while offering gems, posing as authority in a realm that remains largely uncharted.

Take no offense that he failed to hang up the bottle and messed up in life, his gumdrop version of Zen did a lot of good IMO.
 
Vastness said:
Perhaps the prevalent social stigma against psychedelics and indeed most other mind altering substances plays a big part as people are more inclined to frame their usage as beneficial or in pursuit of spiritual growth rather than, simply, a desire to escape reality or purely hedonistic intent, not that there is anything wrong with usage for these reasons - but I think many people subconsciously internalise prevalent cultural stigmas and therefore avoid admitting these reasons even to themselves, allowing them to believe that psychedelic overuse is actually a more pure path than overuse of almost anything else. Not that it isn't potentially a more enlightened form of substance abuse, in some ways, but self-delusion about one's reasons for using any substance is almost always a dangerous path to go down.
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I think this is a big part of it. Something that often frustrates me in the psychedelic community is the insistence that their use could never be for the "wrong reasons", whatever that may mean

At the psychedelic society at my university (yes it's a real thing lol) i would say that >80% of people think that useing drugs other than marijuana and psychedelics (and maybe MDMA or K) is the path to substance abuse. And that use of other drugs is because someone is addicted to them. Someone using meth or heroin could never simply be using the substances to better their life. I think many people self medicate ADHD with meth or treat pain with heroin (if you can even call the fentanyl everywhere nowawdays heroin). But this possibility is not considered or if it is, it's considered invalid.

Personally, I have had entheogenic experiences on amphetamine but i've been told to my face that it was simply delusions from being high. Because psychedelics would never do that of course 🙄 So yeah i guess my point is that a significant population in the psychedelic community use a spiritual/religious high ground because they feel the need to justify their actions. Reminds me of religious extremism a little bit...



As for the LSD dosages, i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that modern tabs are low dose. My first experience with LSD was one tab that I would now (after many other experiences) call 50-75 ug. I had the single most important experience of my life that night - one that helped me to realize my place in the universe. I didn't need 300 ug for that. I feel like for first time users, doses that high are just unnecessary and risky.
 
Is addiction doing anything regularly? I like eating porridge every morning does that mean I'm a porridge addict? Isn't it just a dramatic word used to demonise drug use?
 
I don’t care much for oatmeal but yet I eat it most mornings, because I know it’s good for me.
 
Ismene2 said:
Is addiction doing anything regularly? I like eating porridge every morning does that mean I'm a porridge addict? Isn't it just a dramatic word used to demonise drug use?
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Addiction (or an abusive relationship, to tie it to the thread title) is every pattern of behavior that results in negative short- and/or longterm consequences, but the person doing it is not willing or able to give it up nonetheless.

So if you happen to be intolerant to porridge (cause of gluten or whatever) and e.g. are wrecking your gut with it, but you still can't stop eating it while being aware of that (negative consequences), it's more than just nutrition or eating, it's addiction.

A very simple and foolproof method to find out about potential addiction is, just abstaining from the behavior in question for a while, and observing what happens. (Of course denial, delusion etc. play a role here too.) If one is not able to omit the behavior, it's clear what it is..
 
I love steel cut oats with olive-oil-sardines boiled with spinach and spices as a breakfast soup, but kasha is wonderful too. I am habituated to that, and maybe meatballs or left over pasta. hot breakfast is the best any time of day or nite.
 
bongdong said:
Addiction (or an abusive relationship, to tie it to the thread title) is every pattern of behavior that results in negative short- and/or longterm consequences, but the person doing it is not willing or able to give it up nonetheless.

So if you happen to be intolerant to porridge (cause of gluten or whatever) and e.g. are wrecking your gut with it, but you still can't stop eating it while being aware of that (negative consequences), it's more than just nutrition or eating, it's addiction.

A very simple and foolproof method to find out about potential addiction is, just abstaining from the behavior in question for a while, and observing what happens. (Of course denial, delusion etc. play a role here too.) If one is not able to omit the behavior, it's clear what it is..
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What about behaviours that you have to do which you know are negative but you have no choice over? Going to a shitty job that's killing you but you have to pay the bills? Living in a shit apartment beside a road that's belching pollution into your lungs? Is that an abusive relationship or is that being a "hard worker"?

You tend to hear "addiction" only when it's something to do with drugs or other personal life stuff - if you have to pay the bills no-one ever says it's abusive to go to work on a train when everyone's breathing covid all over you - it's the complete opposite - if you die from going on the train as they stood over your grave they would be praising you for your behaviour in killing yourself - "he knew he might die but he had to get to work - what a star and wonderful example to us all"
 
No, I'm just saying negative behaviours that you have to do are considered admirable, negative behaviours that you "choose" to do in your personal life are frowned on.

I'm certain that breathing pollution on my way to work every day is far, far more damaging to my health than every psychedelic drug I've ever taken. If we were truly concerned about helping people we would forget the psychedelics and make sure they arn't breathing shit every day or working a job that sends them to an early grave.
 
whataboutism

Surely pollution is a serious issue but that doesn’t mean we ignore the very real consequences of psychedelic abuse just because other problems in this world exist
 
Not really about pollution - I'm saying negative behaviours that you have to do are considered worthy. Why?
 
well that's gonna depend on a lot of things w.r.t your personal philosophy

I think of it as - we all have free will. Thus if one has the choice to not do negative things then that should be applauded. If someone has to do negative things (eg. riding on a train full of COVID) to achieve their long term goals of financial security, feeding their children, etc. then that too should be applauded. I don't think the act of actually riding on the train, for example, is celebrated - rather the dedication to something in the future

Idk if that's a satisfying answer for you. But tbh i dont see how this has to do with the topic of psychedelic abuse beyond the semantics of the word "addiction". I think it is pretty clear that drug addiction is a real thing, and if one wants to argue that other life behaviors are also addictions that is a perfectly valid point to make but it is sort of irrelevant to discussion of psychedelic abuse given that psychedelics are in fact drugs.
 
Just a little uncomfortable with the word addiction or abuse being used around psychedelics, obviously because it's a "drug" and society says "drugs are evil" then we must blindly accept the use of terms like "addiction" around them - regardless of whether it's valid or not. But anyway - that's all my point was.
 
Can I ask why you are uncomfortable with the word addiction or abuse being used around psychedelics? We have a number of self described psychedelic addicts here on BL
 
Yeah... the fact that psychedelics are drugs frankly has little to do with whether or not they are or can be addictive or whether "abuse" of them can occur, ie, usage clearly beyond the point of actual usefulness in one's own life, even into the point of continued usage being harmful in some way.

Also, harmful things that people HAVE to do obviously are not addictions, that's just dumb. Being forced to commute hours every day to earn money to live doesn't mean you're addicted to the act of commuting. You MIGHT be addicted to work - even to the point of it doing you harm, and that of course can be an issue in itself. But unless you CAN work less, and would be better for it, for your health or whatever other areas of your life you value - it's not an addiction, it's just something you choose to do because the negatives (unemployment, poverty, homelessness) would probably be worse.

If it's possible to use something so much that it starts doing you harm - it's possible to abuse it. If it's possible to be aware that you're abusing something - believe that you would be better off if you stopped abusing it, whatever this means, cutting down, abstaining entirely, whatever - and try, but repeatedly fail in your efforts - you are addicted. This applies to many things, drugs being just one fairly broad group of these things, and of this fairly broad group, it definitely applies to psychedelics.

This does not imply any moral judgement on the psychological state of being addicted to something, or on the inherent value of the activity, thing, person, substance, whatever, that a person can be addicted TO. It doesn't imply in any way that addictive drugs are "evil", or somehow worse in any way than less addictive drugs, and the idea that it somehow does is just as nonsensical as invoking the wrongness of the "drugs are evil" myth as a reason for why the idea that psychedelics could be addictive, or abused, is somehow not worthy of discussion.
 
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