Propylhexedrine - Extraction Question(s)

[KitchenChemist]

Hello, all ! I wanted to post this topic, and get some input from a few, fellow BlueLight'ers. I'm pretty well-versed in pharmacology, but am a little shaky on some basic chemistry stuffs. The following, is an extraction method for one of my favorite stims, propylhexedrine. I have a few questions regarding this extraction, but first, here it is:

SUPPLIES:

* 6 (Six) Benzadrex Inhalers
* Distilled Water
* Hydrochloric Acid (Muriatic Acid/Pool Acid bought at Wal-Mart)
* Lye (NaOH, Red Devil Lye; Hardware stores, Unwatched, Available on the net)
* Diethyl Ether, or Toluene (If you have access to Diethyl Ether, use this. . .
But chances are that you don't. Toluene can be found
at the hardware store, paint section)
* Coffee Filters
* Funnel (Normal funnel used for automotive oil changing)
* Glass Eyedropper (Pharmacy)
* Glass Casserole Dish
* Small Glass Containers

1. Open all of the propylhexedrine (Benzedrex Inhaler) containers, collecting the 6 cottons, set them aside.

2. In a small glass container, mix 20ml of distilled water with 10ml hydrochloric acid.

3. Cut the cottons into little pieces and soak them in the acid water, Squeeze them, push on them in the liquid, be sure to get all of the stuff out of them. You are milking the propylhexedrine from the cottons. The propylhexedrine is going into the liquid.

4. Place a coffee filter into the funnel, and filter the liquid three times, each time using a new filter. Collect the filtered liquid in a new glass container.

5. Now, using teaspoon measures, measure 1/8th of a teaspoon of lye, and pour the lye into the filtered liquid. Stir the liquid, if it does not stay cloudy, then carefully add tiny bits more lye until the liquid stays cloudy. Just don't add too much. Also, remember not to touch lye - you will receive chemical burns.

6. Transfer the liquid to a sealable glass bottle, and add 30ml of ether Diethyl Ether, or Toluene. Shake the bottle for about five minutes or so. Set the bottle down, and observe two different liquid layers separating.

7. Using the eyedropper, suck up the top layer, which is the Diethyl Ether or Toluene, which contains the propylhexedrine. Put the liquid you sucked up from the eyedropper into a fresh bottle, and add 25ml of distilled water, and 5 drops of hydrochloric acid.

8. Shake the bottle for another five minutes. Put it down, and let the liquid layers separate again. Suck off the top layer, and discard it, leaving the bottom water layer with the propylhexedrine.

9. Transfer the liquid to the glass casserole dish, and put it over low heat. The water will begin to evaporate, leaving relatively pure propylhexedrine hydrochloride. You should expect back at least 1 gram of propylhexedrine. Using a razor blade, scrape up the powder left from the evaporation, and collect it in a baggie.

Up the nose the powder goes. %)

What I'm is wondering, is:

* Would a different solvent, like say Naphtha, work in place of the Diethyl ether / toluene..?

* The author of this particular method, says to obtain hydrochloric acid, via pool cleaner. Isn't the hydrochloric (also "muriatic") acid used to clean swimming pools usually around 32% ? Would 32% make much difference than 37%, or another concentration? Can one use too much HCl ?

* I've heard of other extraction methods, mentioning letting the solution sit overnight to "evaporate" off most of the nasty menthol/lavender oil, contained in the cottons. Should this method also eliminate that naaaasty lavender/menthol smell/taste ?

* Is it true that extracted propylhexedrine, in HCl form is stronger ? In one would usually use half a cotton (125mg freebase), how much extracted, Propylhexedrine HCl would be the equivilent ?

Also, has anybody noticed any difference in the length of effects, compared to eating whole cottons, vs extracted ? I always seem to notice that if I soak the cottons in lemon juice (as opposed to eating them whole), they seems to kick in faster, and also wear off faster. (Which is a good thing, as sometimes the whole cottons last too long, and I like to sleep. ). I always just assumed that this was because I was dissolving the freebase in an acid (citric, in the case of the lemon juice), and that saved my stomach the trouble of having to do it, itself.


Any help that you guys (& gals ) can provide regarding my questions, is greatly appreciated !

 

[The Chemist]

You may be new, but using the search function would've told you a thread nearly identical to this was just closed.

we don't use swim here, or discuss synths.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Its not synthesis and extraction is allowed (which was the confusion with the first thread which was by this guy so he probably knows the other was just closed ). OP if you change the SWIMs to first-person pronouns, I'll sent it to the Other Drugs forum.

Also OP, if you think a thread is closed that shouldn't be, please don't just start another identical thread but contact the staff to discuss it.

 

[purple_cloud]

As we told you in the other thread, no SWIMing here, and please don't repost topics if your thread gets closed, posting an identical thread elsewhere isn't allowed and creates more work for the mods than necessary. You should PM the mod who closed your thread, or another mod of the forum and inquire about why it was closed, not just make a new thread elsewhere.


EDIT: Cane beat me to it, if you edit your post it'll get moved over to OD, since it's not a "basic" question at all.

 

[KitchenChemist]

Ok, sorry.. I wasn't aware that the thread was closed; I actually didn't think it went through. As soon as I hit ‘post‘, it re-directed me to the log-in page, even though I was, already, logged in.. ? :/

And sorry about the SWIM thing.. I do remember seeing folks here mention that it isn't used, but I still see some people using the SWIM reference in some posts, so I just wanted to be on the safe side, as most forums are very strict about the "self-incrimination" stuff.

And, I did use the search bar first, and did NOT find any relative topics regarding this particular preparation process, or that addressed any of the particular questions that I have been searching for.

I do remember seeing propyl topics in OD, in the past, but the Basic Drug forum description said to post it there first, if one was unsure where it should go. Finally, after wondering where the best place to post was, I decided that the 'Homeless' board was best, and that somebody could get it moved to the appropriate board.

And, I could have sworn that I have seen extraction and/or "harm-reduction" techniques for the use of various substances, here on BL before..? I apologize if these types of topics aren't covered here. Although, I'm not really looking for an extraction (I have a few) or synth info, just some harm-reduction input regarding the best, and most efficient way to use propyl. Again, I apologize if this is not allowed, but I didn’t see much difference between this type of post, and posts that cover the filtering of street drugs for injection, etc.. Just looking for some pointers on how to best prepare my substance(s), for use.

Thanks, MODS.. I guess I should have gone ahead and posted to OD, as I originally intended.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

I think one of the BDD mods thought it was synthesis which is not allowed rather than extraction so they unapproved the post which made it invisible to everyone but staff.

You made the right call posting in BDD first as the majority of the time, that's where new members' questions belong but this is a little more advanced so although its a close call, I thought it'd do better in OD. There is a lot of crossover between the topics covered in OD and BDD.

You might see people use SWIM at times but we do everything we can short of public floggings to get people to stop... since its expected at other common drug forums, new members often use it here.

Thank you for reading the guidelines and trying to follow them; things can be confusing at times. In the future, feel free to contact myself or any staff directly if you have any questions.

Hopefully you'll get some good responses in here but keep in mind it may take a little time since propylhexedrine isn't the most commonly used drug discussed in here.

 

[amapola]

It would help if you included a list of the ingredients you are trying to separate both active and inactive.

I can say that the HCL percentage won't matter so long as it is higher than the 1/3 molar you dilute to, any fragrant oils will be removed, the strength won't really change but activity per mass will likely be different between the freebase and salt, and I can definitely imagine that eating a cotton causes slower absorption as the cotton has to be broken down.

I'm confused why you are filtering three times but then as I said I don't know what you are trying to remove.

 

[KitchenChemist]

Thanks, Cane !


The only ingredients listed in the Benzedrex Inhalers are: 250mg Propylhexedrine, menthol oil, and lavender oil.

I guess I should have mentioned that propylhexedrine is a volatile, oily liquid at room temperature, as a freebase, so the only real way of working with it, is by extraction and conversion to a salt.

I figured that this extraction would not snag the oils, but just wanted to be sure. And, I have NO idea why the author mentions filtering three times, and I doubt that I'll do it, once I get around to trying this method. I guess it may be intended to catch any stay cotton fibers that may separate, once the cottons are soaked. (The cotton rods DO fall apart once soaked and shaken. But, they are rather long fibers, and I don't see how any would make it into the final product.)

Perhaps the filtering is an attempt to eliminate some of the oils..? When you soak the cottons, a slight oily layer IS visible on the top of the solution. Although, I highly doubt that coffee filters (maybe micron) would eliminate a significant amount of the oil(s).

So the only ingredients in Benzedrex inhalers, are: Propylhexedrine (in freebase form), lavender oil, and menthol oil.

As mentioned before, propyl is a volatile oil, in freebase form, at room temp. (This makes it so that when you inhale from the tube, some propyl is inhaled). But, it's almost impossible to work with in freebase form, and that's why a salt in the only practical way of working with it. Plus, eating a gel cap is much better for one's stomach, than eating a cotton rod, or drinking a soaked propyl solution. (I have a strong stomach. But, Menthol and Lavender IS an absolutely FOUL combination!)


I'm curious why diethyl ether or toluene was chosen as a solvent. But I assume that it has to do with the solubility of propylhexedrine HCl in different solvents (as some will dissolve it, others won't). So, I'm guessing toluene was chosen because of propyl HCl's low solubility in toluene..?

Toluene doesn't seem to be used as much these days, for industrial applications, as it once was. There are much more efficient thinners and strippers out there now. I'm curious if another, perhaps more common solvent, might work.. Like, say naphtha..? Anyone have any ideas..?

Thanks, amapola.. That's what I thought regarding the HCl. If one were to use too much, do you know if the excess HCl that didn't bond, would wind up in the final product, as crystalline HCl..? Or, if it would evaporate off during the evaporation of the solution..?


Thanks everyone, for your input.

 

[amapola]

I really don't understand the tech. After acidification you filter which I guess removes some insoluble solids. What is precipitating out though? Then basification and polar extraction only gets the proplyH freebase somehow? I would think the other oils come along.

To me the easiest way to do this would be soak the filters in acid so that you get the desired salt in solution with the unwanted oils on top. Then use a separation funnel (or milk bag with punctured corner) to isolate the acid solution and evaporate. Or neutralize first I guess. Then again I've never used this chemical before nor really know it's properties and how the tech is supposed to work.

 

[Night Renegade]

I typically just do a crude extraction because I'm usually in a hurry to consume the propylhexedrine.

What I do is, put the cottons in a small metal pot. I take one drop of hydrochloric acid and mix it with just enough water to submerge the cottons. You barely need any HCL acid to get the job done. A lot of extraction teks go overboard with the amount of HCL acid.

I let the cottons soak for about 10 minutes, meanwhile I press the cottons with a spoon to force the chemicals out into the solution. I add a little more water and then put it on the stovetop so that it's just barely boiling.

After lightly boiling for about 15 minutes, nearly all the menthol will have evaporated out of the solution. The smell of menthol is no longer detectable. You can either drink this or let the rest of the solution evaporate. I don't recommend IV administration.

 

[RogGemmill]

I just cut up the cotton and swallow it. Did this over 100 times and have did 3 at once. I've never had a problem. But I'd love to smoke this stuff.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's a bad idea to swallow the cotton, as cotton is indigestible and in rare cases can cause intestinal blockages which are very dangerous or even life-threatening.

I use propylhexedrine more often than I should because it's always there every time I go to the store. I obviously like it, but it has one of the worst comedowns, it makes me feel like ass the next day usually. I always get a bottle of snapple, cut up the cotton, and shake it up in the snapple and let it soak for a good 15 minutes. That way there's no cotton ingestion and it gets converted via citric and/or ascorbic acid into salt form. I have eaten the cotton before and in my experience it results in an inferior high with greater side effects and much greater nasty burps.

 

[methyldreams]

couple of H3C and you would have something interesting correct?

 

[Newagebuddha]

It is very important not to eat the cotton. Let me tell you why. I was on benzdrex, I do it about once a week have for 10 years. I had taken 2 inhalers and it was about 3 hrs later I decided to take 2 more. Down the hatch they go. About a hour goes by and I have stabbing pain in my heart. I go to the ER and tell them I'm having a heart attack. They tell me I'm not. I told them what I had done. They said I was fine. To speed up a long story I never got better and by day 3 I was passing in and out of consciousness. Well I drag myself to the toilet I hadn't used it in days. Should have been first clue any speeding up. I passed a huge ball of cotton and I was suffering from menthol poisoning. I don't know would have happened if I hadnt passed it but no one Dr would help me and I couldn't figure out what was going on. I've been doing these inhalers for 10 years without incident but this one time was enough to scar me. It was slow confusing and very painful to be poisoned like that. Do not eat the cotton I am living proof it's a bad idea.

 

[trichy]

I think one of the BDD mods thought it was synthesis which is not allowed rather than extraction so they unapproved the post which made it invisible to everyone but staff.

You made the right call posting in BDD first as the majority of the time, that's where new members' questions belong but this is a little more advanced so although its a close call, I thought it'd do better in OD. There is a lot of crossover between the topics covered in OD and BDD.

You might see people use SWIM at times but we do everything we can short of public floggings to get people to stop... since its expected at other common drug forums, new members often use it here.

Thank you for reading the guidelines and trying to follow them; things can be confusing at times. In the future, feel free to contact myself or any staff directly if you have any questions.

Hopefully you'll get some good responses in here but keep in mind it may take a little time since propylhexedrine isn't the most commonly used drug discussed in here.