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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Primary Care Physician Refusing To Treat Extreme Pain

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It turns out that I have a pars defect at L4 or spondylolysid in my lower back that may be pinching nerves. I'm still on hydrocodone for now but my sports medicine physician said durgesic patches might be necessary soon in the future. Quite an unexpected turn in my situation.
 
^Are you just asking to think of why my former PCP wouldn't treat my pain? I have absolutely no recorded drug history as far as medical transcripts are concerned. I have a DUI and a drug crime while I was a minor but that's it. I know better than to knowingly submit myself to such a stigma, ive never submitted to a drug screening or admitted to anything other than the occasional drink. The only thing that could possibly show up would be calling in refills early but that was from my surgeon i have a close-healthy relationship with.
 
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Did the Primary Care doctor you see prescribe ANY pain medication? At first you said she wouldn't give you an NSAID, but you are on Vicodin?

I think she probably suspected you were asking for an NSAID but hoping she would prescribe something else, since vicodin is not meant to be mixed with drugs like Toradol. I am assuming you were asking for something like Celebrex or Toradol? Celebrex now has a black box warning, and toradol can cause stomach bleeds, so they are not good for long term use.

What medications are you on, if you don't mind sharing? I used to work in Primary care, and may be able to provide some insight.

I can understand her caution, you are only 20, and if you have been constantly asking for medication she will be reticent to prescribe much. Unfortunately medical professionals are now trained to try and avoid writing narcotic pain meds to young adults.

Have you tried Lyrica(Pregalabin) or Neurotin (Gabapentin)? Find a new doctor and try one of these out if you have not yet.
 
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I was scripted a small amount of hydros to last a week, which is exactly how long they lasted. I went to my sports medicine physician, I am still taking 5/500 hydros (as needed instead of once s day) until I can see my surgeon after a few weeks of therapy.
Currently I just take the hydros, clonazepam, and carisprodal . The clonazepam and somas are just 1 and 350 mg at night for insomnia. I was not constantly asking for medication, I suggested a meloxicam script because I was prescribed for over 2 years by my surgeon mentioned above. The one week script of vicodin had ran out by the time of my follow up appointment. My history of injury is long enough that I believe I can at least ask for an NSAID. And yes I've tried gabapentin, it's more of an intoxicant for me than a therapeutic medication. I recently stopped taking it on my own accord. I have no idea how I would go about finding a pain management doctor without going through multiple visits that will cost me hundreds of dollars. My sports medicine physician is perfectly happy, and comfortable treating my pain, but I can't afford a $115 copay every month.
 
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Just ask one of your doctors to refer you to a pain management specialist. Unfortunately you will likely have to go to multiple visits with the PM doctor and it will probably be expensive if you are you in the US and have limited insurance coverage.

You could also try to find a better, more compassionate general practitioner, but that would also likely involve several visits to find one you like and get to a point where they treat your pain effectively. You'd could do some research on GPs in your area, ask friends/family who they see, look for reviews online, and make an appointment. If you luck out you might get a doctor you like on the first visit, otherwise move onto the next doctor. This is the only way I know of to find a good doctor who seems to have the right fit for you. Doctors are just people and they are all different, some are going to be better at their job than others, more educated/experienced in treating chronic pain, have a personality that you can relate to better, and have enough time to devote to you. Unfortunately the fact of the matter is that it can be very difficult to find the right GP for you. It also generally takes going to the doctor frequently to develop an effective treatment plan, find which medications work best for you, gain your doctor's trust and have them understand your condition. A pain management specialist might be more expensive, but might have more time to spend on your case, so it may end up evening out cost-wise in the long term if you see a PM Dr or stick with your sports medicine physician as opposed to trying to find a regular GP that can fully treat your pain. Most people with chronic pain (in the US) will have both a GP and a PM Dr.

Doctors don't like being told what to prescribe. Most want to try other medications before resorting to opioids (with good reason). The best thing to do is frequently tell them in detail about your symptoms, how severe they are, whether or not they are improving or worsening, and how well (or not well) they were treated by the medications you have tried in the past. Then they decide what they want to prescribe, you try it, you go back and report the results (how effective it was, whether there were any side effects).

A pain management specialist will try to get to know you and evaluate your particular pain problem(s), usually by doing a detailed history, performing a physical exam and reviewing any tests that you have had. They will ask you questions or have you fill out a questionnaire, with a focus on your particular problem, but also asking about past and current medical history as well. They will look at any imaging studies or other types of tests that have already been done, and suggest further testing if necessary. They will analyze all of this information and develop an initial assessment of your pain problem, plan a course of treatment and/or evaluation if needed. Over time, they will adapt your treatment as necessary. If you are just seeing a GP, you can try to do the same thing with your GP as well. Personally I find it helps if you can collect all of this info yourself (or ask/remind them to obtain any info that you don't have) and present it to them. If you keep detailed records about your pain and treatment helps as well (like a journal where you record the severity of your pain, what factors affect it, what meds you tried and whether they helped and if so how much, like say if your pain was an 8 and the med brought it down to 4, etc). I find that it is necessary to take an active role in your treatment.

The other thing that I recommend is looking into non-drug treatments. Things like physiotherapy, acupuncture, yoga, etc have been hugely helpful for me and many others with chronic pain. Unfortunately we can't just expect to see a doctor once or twice, be given a prescription for a drug that completely alleviates our pain with no adverse side effects, and then that's that. It usually takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the patient to get effective treatment, and involves trying a combination of different treatments, including non-drug treatments, to eventually find what works for you.
 
Swimmingdancer- thank you for such a thorough response. When you mentioned physiotherapy do you mean physical therapy? Or something like electrical stimulation, accupunture, or shiazo? I am a practicing athlete in judo and a gym machine, and I do find it helps my sense of well being, but it does exarcerbate my pain level quite a bit. I obviously dont want to spend my life on medication but so far I've foun very little that helps the chronic pain for injury. Even yoga is less than effective, as I am already very calm and have a good flexible body type.
 
its weird, many doctors i have seen still gave me scripts i wanted and needed, knowing i am on Methadone for opioid dependency. a few doctors didnt have a problem giving me klonopin and adderall, i was just honest to the bone with them about my life. i guess they didnt see me lying to get over on them, which they respected
 
Swimmingdancer- thank you for such a thorough response. When you mentioned physiotherapy do you mean physical therapy? Or something like electrical stimulation, accupunture, or shiazo? I am a practicing athlete in judo and a gym machine, and I do find it helps my sense of well being, but it does exarcerbate my pain level quite a bit. I obviously dont want to spend my life on medication but so far I've foun very little that helps the chronic pain for injury. Even yoga is less than effective, as I am already very calm and have a good flexible body type.

All of those things. Yoga can do a lot more than just make you calm and flexible. I thought the same thing, but when I really gave it a try and went to proper classes daily for like a month I was amazed at how helpful it was. Of course there are a lot of different types of yoga though. I do a combination of physical therapy, special exercises, massage, acupuncture, electrical stimulation and ultrasound, etc, yoga and moist heat. What exactly works best and isn't too intense for you will depend on your particular injuries of course. You don't want to overdo it, the knees are a tough area to heal and can be worsened by exercise that is too intense. Another thing I've found extremely helpful is working on how I think about pain. And I also take a lot of supplements. Unfortunately all of this takes a lot of time and effort and trying different things, with the understanding that you may not see noticeable improvement immediately and have to keep at it. But I just hate being dependent on medication that doesn't even work very well in the long-term.
 
all in all, being dependent on meds is a life controller, ya just cant live a normal happy life, PERIOD. i cant even travel without worrying about having alot of RX Klonopin and Suboxone/or other opiates i can get when i run out. i moved to pasadena TX with my Girlfriend, told my doctor to fuck off, i was on 3 suboxone a day, and 4mg of xanax a day, halfway into my road trip withdrawl it...when i finally got to my destination i lost sleep for a week, and got delusional in the middle of the night..i had no clue how dangerous that was..i was a WRECK when i got there, i had family mail me xanax and morphine to get by, in the meantime me and my girl were ddriving in the hood smoking crack all day too....total unhappiness and dependency
 
I can feel you on the dependency thing...I've got 3 herniated disks in my lumbar, spinal stenosis, DDD, hyperkyphosis, chronic, recurrent epididymitis, and most of my muscles are in atrophy and I walk with a cane now ever since I got torpedoed off the side of a car because some tweaker fuck drove off with me halfway in the window not wanting to pay for his bud...I'm not even dependent on strong medications, but still take over 700 pills a month...well, until last week when they switched me from tramadol (240 a month) to butrans 10mcg (which has been hell; I think it might have something to do with not being able to control my doses), dropped my flexeril from 90 to 30 a month (I think because they tried me on seroquel for the second time for insomnia and it had horrible side effects the first time...and this time as well...)

I was getting 90 800mg gabapentins a month, but they switched me a few months ago to 60 150mg lyrica...I'm taking the max doses of tylenol a day, exceeding the max for ibuprofen and aspirin, taking 60mg of dexilant/day for gastro issues, and was taking phentermine for weight loss (my metabolism is shit because of me being inactive on the cane, and my testosterone-I just found out-is low as fuck)...I just don't have anymore phentermine because I don't have the cash to go see the doctor and get my 4 scripts for stepping on a scale lmao...

Sorry for bitching/hijacking the thread...just commenting on that last post...

TO THE OP:

You should look into going to PM as has been said over and over again...I'm currently awaiting my first PM appt...been seeing an internist as my PCP, and she has no personality and hates to write scripts for young people (I'm only 20 as well)...Best of luck to you...As soon as I'm treated sufficiently I plan on starting out doing laps in my backyard a couple times a day and expanding on that til I feel I can walk around the block so I can get off this damn cane...can't stand the shit anymore, and the people calling me house (because of the vicodin-poppin, cane sporting TV doctor-I haven't been able to sit in the same room with that show since lol) is unbearable lol...And on the note of hydrocodone getting bumped up to C-II...fuck that shit...it better not be moved until I get my fucking wisdom teeth out, because vicodin really don't do much for me at all anymore lol...have to take at least 5 or 6 of them at once to feel significant pain relief...
 
dont feel bad, i vent out in anger alot on this site and goo off topic when it comes to NYS Detox- a 3 day taper with phenobarb, regardless how many xanax u take a day, even for 10+yrs, such a risk and unhumane, oh and they taper u off suboxone in 3 days too, fucked up! here i go bitching off topic LOL
 
Call your insurance regarding "finding" a pm Dr. Sports docs usually will refer out for pm. They are comfortable doing procedures but are squirmy about drugs. A pm doc usually will give you something at your first visit. Sounds like you might need something like Oxycontin. I know you mentioned you cant afford it but a lot of docs are given "discount cards" from distributors. Ask your doctor before leaving the office if they have any of the cards. I have one for oxycontin and it covers what insurance doesn't up to $25. I literally only pay <a low price> for name brand oxy. You can also find a PCP and do a "comprehensive visit". They are just visits to get established and provide records. These are cheaper visits and usually considered "preventative care". Don't mention drugs tho. Just get established to appease insurance. So one visit to a PCP. Call insurance to find a covered pm doc. And ask for a discount card for the prescribed meds. Good luck!

*Sorry, no discussion of drug prices is allowed.
 
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FIND A PAIN MANAGEMENT DR, not an INTERNALIST! A Pain Management Dr is EASY to find.. GOOGLE Pain Management Dr and the city you live in...They HAVE to give you something for your pain especially if you didnt ask for opiods...Thats f**ked UP...straight up,
 
Thanks for all of the advice guys. I haven't been looking for a PM specialist yet since I've been so busy with school (actually studying to be a physical therapist or sports medicine md)
I've been given prescription lidocaine patches but they don't provide relief for the deep pain. My abdominal/hip flexor tear is healing very well but the spinal fracture and knee issues are being exarcerbated. It's been 3 weeks on hydrocodone and I'm definitely in the chronic phase of the injury by now.
What can I do to get the relief I need while still under the care of my current sports med physician? The 5mg hydros do nothing and i need at least 30-40mg to get significant relief, and with that it only lasts 4-5 hours max.
What would be the best way to bring up controlled release analgesia without blatantly asking for drugs? He did mention fentanyl patches awhile back but I'm not sure I qualify for that level of opiod at this point.
What should I do, considering the fact that I am bound to this physician since he is overseeing my rehab?
 
^Just tell him in detail about your pain and that you are not getting enough relief from the meds you are currently on. I would not go from hydrocodone to fentanyl, even if that is an option. There should be plenty of steps in between as far as drugs you can take. Tell your doctor what you just said about having to take 5 of the hydro pills to get relief and it only lasting 4-5 hrs. See what he suggests.
 
where abouts are you in the world. for compaints about unfair treatment you should contact the appropriate ombudsman.

THESE ARE AUSTRALIAN CONTACT NUMBERS

How to make a complaint against GP/Health Professionals.

source

How to make a complaint
by Peter Lavelle
The Australian medical system, what to do and who to go to if something goes wrong.
Published 20/02/2003

ISTOCKPHOTO
Your rights
Complaint options
Litigation
Health Ombudsmen
More info
In a perfect world every time we sought help from a health professional we'd be 100 per cent satisfied with how we were treated.

But the world isn't perfect, and like any provider of a service, doctors make mistakes. These mistakes can range from unprofessional behaviour to incompetence or simply a momentary lapse in judgement where the doctor makes a poor decision.

It's important not to accept poor treatment, but to make a complaint about it. This doesn't just benefit you the consumer, it's also in the community's interests because it means there's less likelihood of someone else experiencing the same problem in the future.

Your rights

Health consumers have rights that guarantee them:

a satisfactory service.
dignity and privacy.
adequate information.
due skill.
treatment in a professional manner.
the right to redress if these measures aren't met.
These rights are covered by codes of conduct and are backed up by legislation – for example the Medical Practice Acts in each State, the Trade Practices Act, and common laws related to personal injury.

In the past, when health consumers have taken action against medial practitioners, the professional bodies and the courts tended to favour doctors rather than patients.

For years there's been a reluctance on the part of the medical profession to admit to doctors' mistakes and act on them. Nevertheless the rise of the consumer movement over the past 20 years or so have made consumers much more aware of their rights.

Making a complaint is an important way of weeding out and re-educating health providers who are unprofessional or incompetent.The most common complaints patients make relate to:

poor treatment – misdiagnosis, wrong or inadequate treatment.
inadequate provision of information – for example about the diagnosis or treatment.
inappropriate nature of the relationship (a sexual relationship for example).
impairment of the doctor due to drugs or alcohol.
A smaller number involve administrative matters like lack of access to medical records, long waiting times, rude staff and so on.

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Complaint options

If the doctor is employed by a medical practice or hospital, the complaint should be made there in the first instance. The doctor should be given the opportunity to respond.

If you are not satisfied, or the complaint is serious enough, you can make a complaint to the health care ombudsman in your State. This is a person whose job it is to handle complaints about health care providers. Each State has one, though they go under different names.

If you are in Western Australia contact the Office of Health Review; in Queensland, the Health Rights Commission, in the Northern Territory the Health and Community Services Complaints Commission, in the ACT the Health Complaints Commission, Victoria, the Health Services Commissioner, and, in New South Wales, the Health Care Complaints Commission. Contact details are listed below.

You should call them and discuss the problem over the phone, and then submit the complaint in writing.

If they feel the complaint is unjustified or frivolous, they may dismiss it. Otherwise, depending on the nature of the complaint they may deal with it in different ways.

For example they may refer it to their dispute resolution service. This is a forum in which patients and doctors are encouraged to come together and discuss and resolve their differences. It may result in an apology from the doctor for example.

In more serious cases the complaint may be referred to another regulatory body for investigation.

In cases involving professional misconduct or where there is a question mark over the skill of the health practitioner, this might be the medical board.

Each State and Territory in Australia has a medical act which outlines the conditions under which medical practitioners are allow to practice. The acts are administered by State medical boards.

A board may investigate a doctor via a medical tribunal or professional conduct hearing, and if found guilty, the doctor may disciplined by a fines, suspension, the imposition of conditions on practice, or deregistration.

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Litigation

If you feel you have been injured by a health professional you also have the option of suing that person.

Under common law, a person has the right to sue a health provider for failing to exercise reasonable skill and care in their diagnosis, and treatment, and for failure to provide adequate information about their treatment. That person can seek damages for injuries.

Those damages might include a sum of money to cover medical expenses (past, present and future), loss of income due to disability, expenses to cover nursing and domestic help, and an amount for the pain and suffering experienced.

The plaintiff (the person bringing the complaint) has to be able to prove that the doctor acted negligently, and that the negligence caused the injury. This can be difficult because:

the direct link between the procedure and the damage is sometimes difficult to prove.
to prove negligence, the plaintiff must prove the doctor breached his or her duty of care. Expert witnesses must give an opinion that what the doctor did was outside of normal acceptable practice. These experts are other doctors who may be reluctant to testify against members of their own profession. Even if they testify the conduct was normal practise, the court may still find the doctor negligent.
For the plaintiff, losing the case can be costly, because the court may order the plaintiff to pay the doctor's court costs as well as the plaintiff's.

If the doctor loses, the costs don't come out of the doctor's pocket. Doctors must have professional negligence insurance (known as medical indemnity insurance) to be able to practice, and the insurance company makes the payout.

Most cases don't go to court, because both sides usually settle out of court. Those cases that do go to court (about 10 per cent) are usually the ones that the doctor's medical insurance company thinks has a good chance of winning and will pursue to the end.

Studies have shown that a person who believes they have suffered from malpractice is much more likely to sue if they think:

the doctor is hiding information from them.
the doctor won't apologise and admit they've made a mistake.
nothing is being done to ensure the mistake isn't repeated.
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Health Ombudsmen

VICTORIA
Office of the Health Services Commissioner Freecall™ 1800 136 066

NEW SOUTH WALES
Health Care Complaints Commission Freecall™ 1800 043 159 (within NSW)

QUEENSLAND
Health Rights Commission Freecall™ 1800 077 308 (within Queensland excluding Brisbane)Brisbane 07 3234 0272)

SOUTH AUSTRALIA
The SA Ombudsman Tollfree 1800 182 150

WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Office of Health Review Freecall™ 1800 813 583 (within WA)

TASMANIA
Health Complaints Commissioner Tollfree™ 1800 001 170 (within Tasmania)

ACT
ACT Community and Health Services Complaints Commissioner Telephone (02) 6205 2222

NORTHERN TERRITORY
Commissioner for Health & Community Services Complaints Freecall™ 1800 806 380
 
^ Dias thank you for the concern but I'm not trying to go through a bunch of administrative bs just to report a general practitioner. I've been getting refills of my 5-500 hydro/APAP as needed but they still aren't doing much, especially as my knee rehab intensifies. We will see how my pain will be managed in about a week or so. I hope they take my neurothropic and chronic-degenerative joint pain into consideration. Would atypical opiods be more suited to my condition? The only thing I can't take is tramadol bc I have EPS.
 
no problems. just thought i'd throw the idea out there.

sometimes even a mention of this kind of thing will see a swift change of attitude, depending how you approach the matter of course. i'm not one to get onto the lawyer and sing out "'lawsuit". i believe in fair treatment.
 
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