'Preloading' / things to avoid with mushrooms?

[blndcnfrmststpdty]

I saw this 'guide' recently talking about preloading with ecstacy, also this thread about what a healthy diet can do for your brain before during and after it's exposed to powerful psychedelics... and it got me thinking about how dietary interactions may affect a mushroom 'trip'. The two links seemed to just open up a whole new, unexplored area for me. Just exposed to me the vast expanse of unanswered, unknown interactions taking place inside our guts and our brains.
In other words, the links aren't that good.


But, I see that many here are endlessly more intelligent and advanced in these matters than me, so...


Any thoughts?

Thank you kind people!

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

A good diet is always a good thing. especially when you're going to become 'hyper-sensitive' to your bodily sensations. the best 'body high' i've had comes from eating only 'raw foods'...this isn't limited to fruits as one might think, you can make some pretty neat little snacks which haven't been heated above 105F. i've been a vegetarian for 7 years and a vegan for 5, but honestly raw foodism is the only really really significant change one can acquire in terms of the effect of diet on one's consciousness and one's bodily 'at-peace-ness'.

i'm definitely going to suggest not to do the ecstasy, but i don't support the use of amphetamines in the first place, neurotoxicity and serotonin-firing degreneration isn't my cup of tea. but then again, of course i'd say that, i'm a fuckin 'health dude' lol.

but honestly, mushrooms are a sacred thing, i would be weary of throwing any other drugs into mix. and i suggest this not only as a means of preserving the 'sanctity' of their wisdom(purely subjective i know), but also because they can be quite overwhelming, and when it gets to that point even a 'lovey dovey' chem like mdma is probably not going to be helpful. 2 chems is often not better than one in my opinion.

pre-load your self with solemn intention, respect, and maybe some meditation i'd say and from my experience, the cleaner the diet, the cleaner the trip..afterall, what more is a trip other than 'seeing yourself'...? what you see is what you are, and what you are is built by what ya eat..

best of progressions brother,
blessings and harmony..
-tUt

 

[blndcnfrmststpdty]

Very good advice, thank you. That resonates deeply with me...especially when you said: "what more is a trip other than 'seeing yourself'...?"
Maybe... the unpleasant body feelings someone keeps getting are telling them something. That's a good point.

Just wanted to clarify though, and sorry I should have been more clear, I don't actually intend to mix ecstasy and mushrooms.
Not too interested in mdma, really. At all. Was just holding that webpage up as an example of a 'preloading regiment', though, you kind of nailed it.

Still, (lol, sliding back into an abstract, mechanistic, physical train of thought) I wonder ... if...the biological effects on the brain, of mdma and psilocin, are similar enough that specifically predosing with, say: "Vitamin B-6, Vitamin C, 5-HTP, DLPA, L-Glutamine, Magnesium" ...and all that other stuff...would also protect the brain and help avoid any nausea. Would maximize the benefits and minimize the ( unnecessary ) negatives?

But, what is there to protect it from? IF the mushrooms are not poison?

And the nausea would likely be avoided with a better diet / fasting?

Hmmm...

Anyways, thank you, more 'food for though'!

 

[Te0X2t]

Well, first off MDMA is an INCREDIBLE chemical and you should really try it at least once, because although it is an amphetamine, it has many 'trippy' values to it. And I've been having a bad shroom trip before, then thrown back two mollys(E) and it saved me the next 5hours of having a 'bad' trip.

Shrooms are very mean and sinister, if you don't let them completely take you over, DO NOT fight it!!! Just thought you should know =).

 

[blndcnfrmststpdty]

I had a ridiculously hard time quitting coffee. So, I dunno. Thanks for the information. Think I'll pass though.
As far as mushrooms being mean and sinister, I'm not sure. On the one hand I want to say that they merely reflect back whatever you feel.

But, I know that certain substances do indeed have very real and unique mechanisms of action and verifiable effects on our physical body (including the brain). It's all a mystery for most people. Scientists included(?) 'Where is the mind? Is it in the brain?' Etc. But I'm digressing...

As I mentioned in the other thread, the last few times I've experienced mushrooms (many years ago) I just felt bad.
Like, physically bad like I'd been poisoned. But these were definitely not poisonous mushrooms, unless the DEA has infiltrated mushroom spore suppliers and replaced the usual medicine with some, feels-like-shit replacement. Yes, I actually thought about that before!

Anyways, I started thinking maybe I had taken gingko, or tea, or smoked a cigarette before the trip and that was the reason for such a bummer, achy, curled in the fetal position type experience. That's the negative angle--> figuring out what not to take.

The positive angle of this topic is: what specific vitamins and minerals and macro molecules can you preload your body and brain with (to create an abundance of neurotransmitters?) before you trip... to ensure everything is at it's peak ratio and the best internal environment for a spiritually conducive trip.

As much as possible.

I know much of the experience is up to you and where you push your mind.
What kind of mood you're in or where your life is at.


But as far as the best dietary guidelines to preload and boost neurotransmitters and limit nausea.
Boost the mental gymnastics, and limit the physical draaggg on the body.

Then again, that information would be worth thousands in royalties and a few publishing deals.
So, maybe someone has a book deal in the works and is wary of sharing the secret ingredients online, for free?

Just kidding! Oh well, maybe thoughtsunthought nailed it.
It's mainly about the meditation and cleaning the body and being open to what you're seeing when you trip?

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

are you asking if the same pre-loading vitamins associated with deterring mdma neurotoxicity will be helpful in taking only psilocybin..?

like you said, i don't think they're a neurpoison, so the same necessity isn't there as with amphetamines. however, vitamins aren't a bad thing in nature...though, to counter what i just said (lol, confusing i know), everything i've gathered regarding health, is that it's most ideal to keep your 'food vitamin' intake high and avoid supplementation. ie, the avg. modern-world diet is composed of so much cooked food, that naturally the vitamins, minerals, enzymes and aminos are quite-largely depleted...thus it makes sense scientifically to supplement with additional vitamins, minerals etc. though from my experience, the greatest health seemed to be eating living foods, which have just the right concentrations of each vitamin and so forth. i read something about high-dose vitamin therapy being highly effective in the short-terms (hence its support in the health community) though long term, can be detrimental. i'm talking like 2000% of each vitamin, i'm not saying having vitamins is bad long term by any means. the book or article said something about excess minerals being stored in joints and tissues, which overtime can cause other problems such as arthritis and organ problems...not to mention that vitamin supplements are 'compounded' vitamins which are often not found in nature, for example vit. b12 (which as a vegan is a big topic)...cyanocobalamin is the common compound which provides b12 in supplaments. i've heard that the cyanide which is a part of the compound can build up and cause problems in the long run....

I'm not an expert, but this is definitely a topic of interest which i've spent quite a few hours researching. i get my b12 from aloe vera (the only know plant source) as well as good ol fashioned bacteria (how our ancestors got it, bacteria, maybe not aloe). i can give you some info on producing 'bacterial cultures' if you're interested, they're loaded with probiotics, enzymes, aminos and an array of vitamins and minerals, its a natural fermentation process which doesn't produce alcohol because you don't add sugar...lol sorry to derail, but PM me if you're interested in learning more of the 'secrets of living foods'. it tastes lemony and good too and is in the form of a refreshing beverage

didn't see your other post, so i'll add...quittin coffee is a bitch lol :D i'm with ya brother....migraines and disdain to say the least lol. coffee is as far as i go with stimulants though, i get twacked-out enough with just that...maybe the occasional lsd-therapy session, but that not really a stimulant by nature, just by side-effect i guess lol.

 

[blndcnfrmststpdty]

Well, I'll let ya get 'up to speed' and see if my last post induces you to give up more of your nutritional knowledge. ha ha.

Okay, times up. Well, guess I'm going to have to dig around on my own and get down to the nitty gritty of how mushrooms affect the mind, what neurotransmitters are used, how to ensure a healthy, functioning brain in regard to those things.

And, what possible dietary components to look out for. Anything that may add a more physical load. Besides what you mentioned.
For instance, no gingko as it has MAOi properties...which may lead to stomach cramps. Beware the dreaded tea leaf!
Etc.

When I get together some decent info I'll post it back here.

Until then, please, add any knowledge ya have so we can all benefit.
(Didn't mean to come off as a fucking greedy capitalist before.)


Thanks.

 

[kingme]

hello!

ive only now seen this thread, so perhaps i am a bit late to the party...

anyway i just thought id share my opinion on the subject.

in regards to vitamins and minerals and whatnot before the trip... ive not had any benefit (or for that matter any downside) to their use. ive always known the day of the trip and always planned to be at my most content in regards to what my body is telling me i need. so, i try not to work out too hard that day, not to eat too heavy meals (but also not to starve myself), but generally lead a nice and relaxed day.

i dont find trips too be that taxing on the body or mind. they are interesting, deep, mystical at times, visual, sometimes manic, sometimes more powerful than expected, but in the end, they all leave me with a rounded, wholesome feeling. even the darker aspects seem to give a sense of understanding and need for comprehension.

i also find during the trip that my mind or my body demands certains things: some fruit, some chocolate, water, juice... and i try to make sure i have these availabe beforehand. i try to dance to the music, stretch out, touch various surfaces, and generally let go of any inhibitions and let my mind free (im basically a little kid for a couple of hours, which is great).

i love mushrooms and they have been kind to me. i do them rarely, true, but they leave me with a wholesome feeling. they are incomparable in terms of side effects (have less) to some other chemicals doing the rounds these days.

its a thing of set and setting mostly. and just like set and setting, overthinking such matters may affect the trip more than the actual substances ingested. this reminds me of various experiences with nausea on the comeup. tell people they might expect nausea, and they will surely pay attention for it. dont mention it, or word it differently, and they will most likely not even be able to discern it.

go with the flow. listen to your body and your mind. enjoy the experience. cheers!

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

True that, on the wholesomeness of afterglow from their experience. it feels like all my vibrations are 'aligned with the universe' or 'functioning in accord with reality' or something like that lol. like everything is how it needs to be and its all okay, though also i have a lingering feel of 'having witnessed something miraculous' or of a mystical realm. like i was shown an ancient box containing some mystery of the universe down in the furthest depths of the cave of my consciousness. and what was inside of it shocked me so much that the only way to not be destroyed by the infinitesimal power of the understanding was to walk away from it, bringing back only an emotion which tells me, without a doubt, that there is something powerful going on and i bore witness to something beyond myself. which, even in retrospect, the experience and the accompanying 'emotion that comes to mind' from remembering the experience feels as real or even more real in terms of tangibility/solidity than does this computer feel real under my hands now :D

though my scientific mind can break it down and say 'chemical inebriation, heightened neuro-firing, delusion' and try to counter balance the experience with logic, the fact stands that the 'dimensional view' that i have tripping is encompassing of what i am normally see. thus, the experience of peak states of consciousness 'seems' or ' are categorized' as real when i experience them by analytical mind. it looks around and sees the room and says 'all are present and accounted for' and then the new angle, or new dimension comes into view like an extension of what i normally see. and though i can't use my 3-d awareness mind to truly draw and viable picture or map to this 4th dimensional or Non dimensional(whatever the fuck i fell into the other night lol), i could indeed draw a perfectly linear correlation between what i was seeing then down to the normally 3d view of the room. makes me think of something i read where a shaman said something along the lines of the reality we normally see is like the shadow of the higher reality(spirit realm in his quote), a shadow will show the objects form, but not its full depth. I believe he (it could have been maria sabina actually, maybe a she)was a shaman whom worked with the mushrooms in particular. and i definitely have that kind of undeniable realness quality in all my intense mushroom experiences.

what i'm trying to say is that my subjective experience 'believes' or 'has proof' for its experience, though like i said its often just an emotion thats taken out of it rather than logical deductions in the end. but the emotion is so profound that it stands as the unstruck stone (or the impervious vapor) which my own logic cannot seem to defeat. :D at least that how my crazy ass experiences mushrooms :D

i'm about to write up my trip report for the other night, fucking pandoras box and the paradox delusions to say the least.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

sorry, was pondering since then, and realized i got vastly off-topic. and in retrospect, realized i was still feeling the mushrooms madness a good little bit. lol, apologies for the unnecessary length and de-railing of this last post of mine. when i started thinking of the 'wholesome' feeling, i over-analyzed the other aspects of the glow i was neck deep in, and got a little abstract in doing so...mushrooms, you tangle my mind in such a beautiful way :D

 

[blndcnfrmststpdty]

No, it's cool man. I liked the post.

I like the dandy detritus and spiffy, shiny pearls that surface up! You're swimming in deep waters!
(Insert Jung anecdote about pearl diving vs drowning with a giant pearl)

Then, with a sober(ish) mind, you can always cull the herd and sift the whey and other cliches like that. If you want. It works!
Bring up a bunch of weird patterns, record them, and later, see what's 'useful'...(of course, dreaming is useful in itself)

I think Paul Krassner said he does something like that with Marijuana and his writing.
Gets high, writes a buncha stuff, edits the crap out of it the next day.
Whatever...


Anyways, subjective vs objective reality is a deep, deep, deeeeeeeep issue.
Probably trying to think objectively while in the throes of a severely subjective experience may be like trying to sleep on coffee or swim upstream.
'The right tool for the the right job' and all that.


I tend to focus more on the objective. Sometimes too much. I cringe at 'solipsism' (?) a lot of times.
The idea that you can create your mood completely. And can be happy anywhere... under any circumstances?
In general, I think people who espouse that have never seen the inside of a jail cell for any length of time.
Or been waterboarded or whatever. Even Jesus, supposedly, cried out asking God why he had forsaken him.
(Depends on the version of events) But, most people don't have that much control over their minds.
Especially nowadays with all the stimulus and distractions outside our minds. 'The Shallows' N. Carr.
blah blah blah.

So anyways, happiness is finding the perfect mix. The balance (of course).

Inside / Outside.
Accept / Change.

Those four simple words have served me well as a sort of compass for figuring out 'problems'.

~ Is it inside me? Is it outside me? Can I change it? How?
And...
~ Is it even a 'problem'? Can I accept it? Should I accept it? How?




As far as preloading and all that.
I got distracted with this book...but I think I'm going to have to delve deeper into psychopharmacology
to get at what happens once Psilocin activates the 5-HT receptor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor

And you know, there may just not be an answer at this point.
Science is still in it's infancy when it comes to the brain, I think.
Especially the interaction with illicit substances. How will a corp make any money off that?
You know what? Nevermind, I don't wanna know! heh heh.


So, that dearth of data means more fun for scientists, maybe, but more waiting for us.
Oh well, I'll keep looking...


That's all for today!

Peace.

 

[Ismene]

I saw this 'guide' recently talking about preloading with ecstacy

You can take pretty much all of that with a pinch of salt. All the shit about "pre-load with 5-htp.." for example comes from some kid reading a half-baked study where they injected enormous quantities directly into a rats brain...so this kids read that for two minutes on google and then formed an idea in his brain..."I know, take a 5-htp pill dude, and it will protect your brain!!". The trouble is you can't begin to even compare the concentrations in the brain from taking a pill and injecting an enormous amount directly into it. It has absolutely no "protective" effect other than placebo.

I'm afraid the truth is that if I gave someone a capsule filled with their own dried excrement and told them "This will protect your brain" the day after they would come to me and say "You know dude, that stuff really works". Placebo is everything in this.

Your body will handle all the "free radicals" perfectly well all by itself. No need to eat "anti-oxidants" to "eliminate" the "free radicals". Read an article called "bad science" by Ben Goldacre for more information on this. Also check out the "Serotonin myth of depression". Lack of serotonin DOES NOT, repeat DOES NOT, cause depression. The latest anti-depressants for example work by DECREASING the serotonin in your brain.

All you end up with following all these "guidelines" is the most expensive piss you've ever taken

 

[blndcnfrmststpdty]

Yeah, not sure why I even asked...the whole thing seems just like poison to me lately, really.
Just an interesting way to intoxicate yourself, and not die from it.

And what does it matter anyway, if you have to carry on in everyday life afterwards?
Might as well make the most of this world and this reality.


Also, I just read about internet use resulting in brain structural alterations! Jesus, my poor poor brain.
Shrinkage of the cerebellum and reductions in the sizes of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, rostral anterior cingulate cortex, supplementary
motor area and parts of the cerebellum as high as 10-20%. wtf? Bye bye internet, you get cut off tomorrow!

I'm making lists of books and such and takin' this circus offline! See ya later kind folks, I'm off to get my dreams back.

(Alex Gross)

 

[Ismene]

Come back, we hardly knew ye!

 

[gannetsarewe]

I used to love, absolutely love going to the pub on mushrooms, esp during the lib cap season, there were so many people in the same way, on the sly and it was all so interesting. Nowadays I cant go picking or even drinking so much but that font of intrigue, the wink and elbow langauge of delight will always stay with me.