Bupe Precipitated Withdrawal - What happens now?

[yelnats]

Long time reader, first post. Great and informative bunch in this forum. Would like to first thank you all.

But right now i'm in a bit of a dilemma and would like some immediate responses. I tried to look around everywhere and couldn't find an answer to this.

So yesterday around 1PM was my last dose of heroin; only a bag. Around 6PM/7PM I believed i was showing signs of withdrawal symptoms, but I was stupid and went on to dose8mgs of suboxone. The PW crept up quickly and hit me hard. I was at work while this happened so I took off work and slept through it/ Fast forward to the next day now. Some people saw PW for them lasts short amount such as an hour. That was most definitely not my case. I feel a lot better but still feeling slightly shitty. Still have cold sweats, hot flashes, and just overall not feeling good. I could score right now and have read that shooting up some H could take away PW.

My question is what happens after PW, do you go into regular withdrawal after? Do the suboxone bind onto your receptors when all the heroin is gone. So If I score and shoot up right now would I get high or would it take the rest of the withdrawals away? Someone please help!!

 

[dankJ]

if you shot up some dope...should DEF take away any w/d's youre feeling.

On a similar topic...i always wondered about this whole precipitated w/d thing...so...i get that if you take subs too soon after an opiate...you go into w/d's because the bupe strips off all the other opiates off the receptors in your brain....leaving nothing. So...common sense/logic, to me anyways, would be that after that happened...if you took ANOTHER sub...it would work as intended because the 1st sub stripped off the opiates from the receptors leaving nothing...so why wouldn't the 2nd one attach themselves? I don't think thats how it works..but again, to ME anyways...common logic seems thats what SHOULD happen...anyone know why, scientifically, this isn't the case?

but yeah...sorry..certainly not trying to hijack your thread here...your post just reminded me of that quandary i have regarding bupe. again though...if you shot up some dope..you should def feel better if the subs didnt do anything. probably wouldn't feel it as much as normal...but enough to get right.

 

[yelnats]

^ no problem dankJ. some people claim that taking a sufficient amount of bupe could actually as well take you out of PW, but can be dangerous and not recommended.

my question still is will I get high if i shot up 2/3 bags now? I think i'm gonna go to my link but I don't want to pick up just to feel normal. I want to know chemically wise what happened to the 8MG of subs I took. I believe the remaining heroin I took from my last shot should be gone? and the suboxone could now bind to my receptors or was the suboxone somehow diminished in the process of PW when mixed with the heroin on-site of the opioid receptors? I am not highly educated on this.

 

[thesameoldfears]

Precip w/d shouldn't last a super long time, but adjustng to subs instead of a full agonist can take awhile. I'd think if you took 8mg which is a bocking dose of bupe that if you did dope now it would have a degreased efficacy, butt if you're still feeling sick I'd imagine it would at least take you up to baseline?

And dankJ, precip w/d hapens becausebupe is competitive and takes the place on all the receptors, so there's no dope left, but there is bupe. But because it's a partial agonist you feel sick if it happens really suddenly. When I got precip w/d I felt incredibly sick for an hourish and then started feeling much better. Not great, not high, but not as sick.

 

[yelnats]

let's say i don't pick up. would i have to dose on suboxone again to avoid withdrawal? and if so, when is the ideal time to dose some suboxone?

EDIT: well i'm really trying to refrain from picking up but i don't know what is going to happen next. tomorrow i am visiting my girlfriend long distance relationship and we're going on vacation for a week. i don't want to be off.

will regular withdrawal kick in? how to regulate my use of suboxone? i have a like 4/5 8MG strips of subs i got off a friend... i am going to see a sub doctor soon myself to get a prescription.

EDIT#2: for those of you curious I decided to pick up. IV 4 bags and felt a rush, probably not like I normally would have felt, but there was a decently nice rush and was high after that. took away all withdrawal symptoms and felt normal again. full of energy and strength.

 

[dankJ]

And dankJ, precip w/d hapens becausebupe is competitive and takes the place on all the receptors, so there's no dope left, but there is bupe. But because it's a partial agonist you feel sick if it happens really suddenly. When I got precip w/d I felt incredibly sick for an hourish and then started feeling much better. Not great, not high, but not as sick.

i completely understand that part of it....my question is AFTER that happens...after you take a sub too soon and you go into precip w/d's...its because the bupe strips off the opiates from your receptors. i get that. AFTER that happens, there's nothing on those receptors..hence...the w/d's...if you were to, at this point, dose again with sub..why wouldn't it do its job since the first sub threw you into the w/d's

 

[Blind Melon]

i completely understand that part of it....my question is AFTER that happens...after you take a sub too soon and you go into precip w/d's...its because the bupe strips off the opiates from your receptors. i get that. AFTER that happens, there's nothing on those receptors..hence...the w/d's...if you were to, at this point, dose again with sub..why wouldn't it do its job since the first sub threw you into the w/d's

My doctor tried to explain this to me, but it was just too complicated to understand.

He said once a patient lied to him... was really on 400mg of Methadone/day, claimed to be on 45mg/day. He told the doctor he'd quit Methadone for a solid 3 days (as is required to make the switch, while 4-5days cold-turkey is recommended). Anyways, Dude skipped no days of Methadone and went straight to Suboxone. Doc said no amount of Subs would take him out of P/WD. Evidently it was absolutely awful. I think the doc said it took a week or so for the patient to start feeling OK on the Subs. (Again, Subs never make a true addict feel good, they only make you feel OK, when at their best they take away about 80% of the sickness in my opinion).

Another thing to remember about Bupe/Suboxone/Subutex (despite the potency) is that it has a ceiling effect. It is said that either 32mg or 40mg is the maximum amount of Bupe some one can process. So if you're dependent on a "heroic" dose of opiates you should most definitely wean down to a more comparative dose of Suboxone before you make the switch. And don't expect a painless transition; however with benzos, sleeping pills, the odd beer or stims plus sweet MMJ a separation from Morphia doesn't seem quite as debilitating.

 

[the_ketaman]

I went from 80mg of methadone a day to 12mg of sub, had to try twice. The first time I had 2 days without methadone then on the third day dosedthe sub(cant remember how much though) and I went into precipitated WD which usually lasts aroun 2-4 hours for me and went back on methadone the day after. The second time my doctor gave me 20 valium or something and a box of 2mg subutex and a box of 8mg subutex and told me to come back when I run out. Mind you this doctor is a great guy, not many other doctors would do this, I think the reason he was so lenient was because id tried before unsuccessfully. Anyway I think I had to go around 4 days without the methadone til I slowly started using the bupe and even then it took about a week befoe I started feeing good again.

My advice is next time dont take the whole 8 in one go. Try a quarter and keep having quarters spaced about an hour to an hour and a 1/2 apart until you start feeling better or you know your having precipitated WD's in which case you stop and because you had less bupe the PW's wont be so bad. You'd be suprised how such a small amount of bupe will hold someone with a habit. Im currently using 0.2-0.3g of heroin a day thats probably equivalent to 3-400mg of oxycodone yet 2-4mg of bupe holds me fine. When I was dosing at the clinic I requested to go from 16mg down to 8mg as 16mg was too much and made me feel uncomfortable(bad sleeping pattern, hot/cold sweats, uncomfortable stimulation, similar to withdrawing but that would have been impossible in my case). I found for me 6mg was the sweet spot after being dependent on it for 2-3 years, so try smaller doses, they are much more satisfying and will likely make you feel better than a big dose. This may sound strange but if you do your reading on here you'll find many people prefer smaller doses of bupe to larger ones even if they have access to larger doses.