Heroin Precip. WD from bupe: A permanent cure for dopesickness?

[smackncheese]

Good evening, OD

Just wanted to share an interesting tidbit of info with you all. Please note that this post is based on personal experience and may not necessarily be solid gold truth. I just wanted to know if anyone else may have experienced what I am about to share.

I have been an IV heroin user for a few years now. My last nonstop run with it was about 1 year straight. I was using nearly a gram a day until about three weeks ago when I decided to stop so I could begin to finally better my life. A friend of mine gave me a couple 2 mg pills of suboxone to taper with. I was told I was supposed to wait at least 24 hours before taking them, and I needed to be in full-blown withdrawal or the pills would make me very sick. Being the impatient junk fiend that I was, I ended up making up a 1 mg shot (half a pill) 12 hours after my last fix, since I was using a ridiculous amount at the time and was already feeling ill.

Shortly after injecting the suboxone, I went into serious precipitated withdrawal. I felt worse than I have ever felt. Frankly, I was concerned I was going to die from the pain. I wanted more than ever to go buy a bag, but instead I locked myself in my friend's bedroom and rode it out. Within a few hours, I felt better, but not perfect. My legs, stomach, and back were bothering me still, but not nearly badly enough to drive me to give in to my desire to fix up. I decided at that point to abstain from any more opiates, including suboxone, until I began to feel shitty again.

Strangely enough, it never happened. Since going through precipitated withdrawal, I have had no symptoms of dopesickness. I have used small amounts of heroin only three times over the past several weeks since this, and it has had no adverse effects on my kick. Each time I have used, I've been terrified I am going to wake up sick the next day, but it hasn't happened! I've had minor post-acute symptoms, like depression / minor leg pains / gastrointestinal disturbances, but nothing severe and nothing that frequent. I feel so much better these days. It is the biggest relief in the world to be able to wake up each day and not have to concern myself with going to epic lengths to score. For once in a long time, I feel human again. I'm not sure what exactly happened, but it's wonderful.

I decided to give my boyfriend the same intravenous dose of suboxone to see if it would have the same effect on him. I was curious to see if his withdrawal symptoms would permanently cease as well. Sure enough, once his precipitated withdrawal ended, he has had no other problems from it.

I think there may be something to this. Personally, I would rather go through an hour or two of hell on earth any day if it meant I could be free of 1 1/2 to 2 weeks of slow, miserable, painful sickness.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

 

[SkagKush]

that very interesting...... but im not sure thats now it works, id bet against it..... lets hope someone knows more.....

i would have assumed after PW you feel fine, then eventually you'd get sick when the bupe runs out....... specially at a gram a day.................

and half a 2mg is .5? im confused.......

 

[Coolio]

I think there may be something to this. Personally, I would rather go through an hour or two of hell on earth any day if it meant I could be free of 1 1/2 to 2 weeks of slow, miserable, painful sickness.

Well, that's what I keep telling and recommending to everyone here on Bluelight. Nobody takes me seriously though, some even think my idea is dangerous. Hours of hell on earth are better than weeks of anything even slightly bad.

BTW, are you saying you didn't use the Suboxone? You only injected half of one pill, then weren't taking it orally?

Because the buprenorphine in a Suboxone will keep you from being dopesick for 18-30 hours, each time you take some, whether it's IV or oral.

 

[love2party]

I doubt this really works especially for people who have been opioid addicts for a long time.

 

[affasd]

well they do something similar at some places called rapid detox where they put you under anesthesia and administer opiate antagonists pretty sure they use naltrexone to put you in precipitated withdrawal over the course of a day i think, my sister had it done but she said it didn't really work but I guess for some people it might work.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

maybe a cure for physical effects of dopesick or some effects of it, but i don't think it would help too much with the mental parts of it.. i think being in precip w/d would actually make me crave more opiates mentally because it would seem as a cure to feel better like always when in any type of w/d. since it's suboxone and not just an antagonist the bupe will make it seem as w/d's are gone but when that wears off most people would still get sick.

 

[smackncheese]

and half a 2mg is .5? im confused.......

My bad, I meant 1 mg 8)

BTW, are you saying you didn't use the Suboxone? You only injected half of one pill, then weren't taking it orally? Because the buprenorphine in a Suboxone will keep you from being dopesick for 18-30 hours, each time you take some, whether it's IV or oral.

Yes, only injected a half, and after that, I haven't needed to take any more of it. I kept expecting to wake up sick one morning, and it just never happened.

Free at last, thank God almighty! :D

 

[Bojangles69]

Well physical wds are caused from the opiate coming off the receptors over a few days and pwds are caused by sub forcing the weaker opiate off the receptors.
If you haven't been abusing sub, (so theres no following suboxone wd) then it actually makes perfect sense to me that it just forces all the heroin out of the receptors quicker.

The problem is however that paws is caused by your brain upregulating the receptor site. Although you now are getting your natural endorphins back, you still don't have enough receptors to uptake them.
So I could definitely see this working for physical wds, but definitely not paws.

At ANY rate however, I'd like to see more people try this to see if it actually works. Physical wds from pods for me can last up to a week, and I'm actually rather tempted with the bit of sub I have to force myself into pwds. I'm just quite scared however because for 7 days of hell to happen in 1-2 hours thats going to be a whole hell a lot of pain.
But at the end of the day if the precipated wds are all I have to deal with, this would be a HUGE discovery for me. I would utterly hate however, if I had to go through the pwds, just for them to wear off, then the sub wears off, and they come right back again under their normal phase of wd.

I still would like more people to try this. I may try it myself if I can grow the balls, but want to do some more research so I can be more confident that it will be just 1 round of wds and not 2. Paws are the worst aspect imo, but I have medicines coming for paws, and was frankly not excited about tapering again.

I definitely may try this myself, although I wouldn't be injecting it (I would honestly guess the ROA doesn't matter) and would most likely plug it.

SOMEONE has to try this though... imagine a whole board of opiate junkies forcing themself into pwds to make a discovery in the name of science. That would truley be some ground breaking shit.
I'm going to go read about rapid detox and see if they actually use naltraxone and to make sure that nothing else is involved. I mean if they ARE using naltraxone (and only naltraxone) for rapid detox, then I honestly don't see a single reason why people can't do rapid detoxes themselves.

This is pretty fuckn awesome smackncheese, if noones willing to play guinea pig I may have to just considering how significant this really is.

 

[Bojangles69]

I doubt this really works especially for people who have been opioid addicts for a long time.

Why would you doubt it? Long time or short, all wds are is your DOC moving off the receptor site. It takes some opiates longer then other hence the difference in wd times.
But how long you use isn't really going to make the wds worse, its how MUCH you use. Length of use will show in the paws phase more imo.

This wouldn't work for paws but I don't really care about paws. There are non-opiate medicines most people can get/take that were perfectly fine for paws.
But for wds its a lot harder to treat as only another opiate really relieves them, but thats not the case for paws. You can take lexapro, lyrica or a weak benzo, and even modafinil for the lethargy.

If I find out this works then I'd effectively be able to quit opiates any time I want really and just go straight on paws meds. For me it would almost be like I was never even on opiates... thats why I really really NEED to find out more about this. And if I DO find out this works, smackncheese is getting a nice fucking gift in the mail as far as I'm concerned.

 

[totach]

i still felt really shitty 3 months after i completed rapid detox.Ive said this in other threads here that the procedure was the biggest waste of money ever.So i would not recomend throwing yourself into pwd i think it will just pass in a hour or two and you will feel relief thats bout it.

 

[TokinDerrick]

precipitated withdrawals is the fucking WORST!!! especially when you IV the suboxone (btw, how does half a 2mg pill equal .5mg?). I waited 12 hours after my last shot of morphine one time and then shot up 2mg of bupe and immediately thought I was going to die (extreme anxiety). I had a cold rush go over my body then immediately sweating my ass off while shaking like I was freezing cold. and I threw up almost instantly. luckily, the precip W/Ds only last about 3 hours, which is something I don't understand, but ok. I don't understand how precip. W/Ds can be so horrendous, but the next time I get some suboxone, I now know that I will give it a full 24 hours, maybe even longer because I NEVER want to go through that again.

however, I don't see that as a fix to never have withdrawals again, if thats what you're saying. I still have withdrawals and as a matter of fact just had some pretty bad one the past few days including part of today until I got my script filled. was puking everything I drank and pissing out my ass every half hour. accidently let a little juice go in my pants while throwing up in a trashcan twice last night. embarrassing, but I know I'm not the only one this has happened to.

 

[love2party]

bojangles, how do you figure this might work, give me your theory?

Buprenorphine will displace most opioids off receptor sites but than it will attach to the receptors itself. So the receptors are still being agonized, not giving them a chance to downregulate back to normal. Down regulation of extra opioid receptors takes more time than just throwing yourself into pwd for a day.

 

[SkagKush]

imagine if it was this easy............

 

[Captain.Heroin]

imagine if it was this easy............

Using opiates to the point of addiction is never easy though, and there's never going to be an easy way out of it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

sounds like some shitty dope you were getting or you drew and extremely lucky straw. there's going to be next to noone with the same kind of experience around here. a lot of OD demographics are younger naive users first getting into opiates or those that have been using them for long(er) period of time. saying that there is a share of clean people but not anywhere near the number of current users or dependent users.

personally i find it hard to believe but i'm not discrediting you.

 

[Coolio]

bojangles, how do you figure this might work, give me your theory?

Buprenorphine will displace most opioids off receptor sites but than it will attach to the receptors itself. So the receptors are still being agonized, not giving them a chance to downregulate back to normal. Down regulation of extra opioid receptors takes more time than just throwing yourself into pwd for a day.

Luckily the small amount of naloxone in the Suboxone will cause MOR upregulation as well as help prevent MOR G protein coupling which leads to development of tolerance. This is part of why Suboxone is easier to taper off of than heroin or methadone.

 

[HighonLife]

Good evening, OD

Just wanted to share an interesting tidbit of info with you all. Please note that this post is based on personal experience and may not necessarily be solid gold truth. I just wanted to know if anyone else may have experienced what I am about to share.

I have been an IV heroin user for a few years now. My last nonstop run with it was about 1 year straight. I was using nearly a gram a day until about three weeks ago when I decided to stop so I could begin to finally better my life. A friend of mine gave me a couple 2 mg pills of suboxone to taper with. I was told I was supposed to wait at least 24 hours before taking them, and I needed to be in full-blown withdrawal or the pills would make me very sick. Being the impatient junk fiend that I was, I ended up making up a .5 mg shot (half a pill) 12 hours after my last fix, since I was using a ridiculous amount at the time and was already feeling ill.

Shortly after injecting the suboxone, I went into serious precipitated withdrawal. I felt worse than I have ever felt. Frankly, I was concerned I was going to die from the pain. I wanted more than ever to go buy a bag, but instead I locked myself in my friend's bedroom and rode it out. Within a few hours, I felt better, but not perfect. My legs, stomach, and back were bothering me still, but not nearly badly enough to drive me to give in to my desire to fix up. I decided at that point to abstain from any more opiates, including suboxone, until I began to feel shitty again.

Strangely enough, it never happened. Since going through precipitated withdrawal, I have had no symptoms of dopesickness. I have used small amounts of heroin only three times over the past several weeks since this, and it has had no adverse effects on my kick. Each time I have used, I've been terrified I am going to wake up sick the next day, but it hasn't happened! I've had minor post-acute symptoms, like depression / minor leg pains / gastrointestinal disturbances, but nothing severe and nothing that frequent. I feel so much better these days. It is the biggest relief in the world to be able to wake up each day and not have to concern myself with going to epic lengths to score. For once in a long time, I feel human again. I'm not sure what exactly happened, but it's wonderful.

I decided to give my boyfriend the same intravenous dose of suboxone to see if it would have the same effect on him. I was curious to see if his withdrawal symptoms would permanently cease as well. Sure enough, once his precipitated withdrawal ended, he has had no other problems from it.

I think there may be something to this. Personally, I would rather go through an hour or two of hell on earth any day if it meant I could be free of 1 1/2 to 2 weeks of slow, miserable, painful sickness.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

very interesting

tho i will say, since at the end of your post u said you would rather go thru 1-2 hours of PWD then a week n half od WD and while i agree to an extent i just wanna say that my PWD that i had were about 5-6 hours long

 

[gatman]

you cant have had that much of an opiate addiction that just wont work the way you said it did. or you are just brain dead

 

[opiatekrzy]

perhaps ifur not addicted to suboxone it may be the cure for dope sickness, all i use is suboxone for 3 years RXed, and it is very addictive IMO, once in awhile i dablle with methadone

 

[Bojangles69]

Using opiates to the point of addiction is never easy though, and there's never going to be an easy way out of it.

I'm not quite sure I see where this is going.

Using opiates to the point of addiction is the easiest thing in the world. Or are you just refering to the fact that it takes "time". Because theres a difference between something taking some time and something actually being hard.

Getting addicted to opiates is definitely not hard at all.
Getting off them is a literal nightmare. Once that imbalance is triggered the abstinence is the only way to fix it but abstinence also causes a ton of stress. Getting addicted doesn't exactly cause stress, if anything is relieves stress.

If I remember correctly, you're still on sub right? So I'm guessing you never even felt the brunt of paws you still owe for your habit?
Now if you said "maintaining an addiction isn't easy", I'd agree, but just getting to the point of addiction is extremely simple.

Put a drug in your mouth everyday for a few months, was that hard?