Potential neurotoxicity of an MDAI + MXE combo?

[ebola?]

And while MDAI is considered "highly selective" for 5-HT release I think it most likely still has minor catecholamine releasing effects as well. Judging by the entactogen SAR, its effects on catecholamine release should fall somewhere between MBDB and MMAI.

A table in Nichols et al. 1991 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/001429999190659E) suggests that MDAI has a weak enough affinity for dopamine and norepinephrine transporters to make its effects there trivial. You're right, though, in that the numbers fall precisely between MMAI and MBDB.

ebola

 

[Qnick]

Just one question atara, I'm assuming this guy died right? So where did these dosages come from? Did he keep a signed and dated journal of what he was shooting up?

It's understandable to be skeptical, but it seems like short of a video of the guy making his injection you'd never believe he even existed, much less died from a drug combination.

But skepticism doesn't mean you should throw caution to the wind, I don't see why you're arguing so hard trying to convince people to be less cautious with a drug combination that many believe to have killed a person.

The OP was asking about potential neurotoxicity of the two, and while there isn't much that is known about how MXE and MDAI interact together pharmacologically, a reported death is definitely a reason to reconsider the combination. Is any type of high really worth the risk? Why push it?

 

[Roger&Me]

A table in Nichols et al. 1991 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/001429999190659E) suggests that MDAI has a weak enough affinity for dopamine and norepinephrine transporters to make its effects there trivial. You're right, though, in that the numbers fall precisely between MMAI and MBDB.

ebola

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Just one question atara, I'm assuming this guy died right? So where did these dosages come from? Did he keep a signed and dated journal of what he was shooting up?

haha ol' Ismene, you often straddle the line between skeptical and just plain stubborn. :D

Because pharmacology is a quantitative science, you can calculate that. If you know the plasma concentration (easy to determine post-mortem), relative distribution of the compound, half-life of the compound, approximate time they took it, etc etc then you can calculate the administered dosage among other things. Pick up any basic pharmacology text and read the first chapter, and you'll probably have all the tools you need to figure that out.

 

[killermunchies]

I wouldn't worry about the alleged "death" or "serotonin syndrome". MDAI isn't active in any dose as far as I'm concerned and MXE is a very gentle and less powerful version of K. I can't see much point in mixing them but if you do then the usual rules apply - start with a low dose and see how it affects you.

There's no evidence either of them are "neurotoxic" so I can't see how mixing them will be either.

This statement is just wrong. If the MDAI you have isn't active, then it isn't real MDAI. 200 mg of MDAI is quite a good time, yet 400 mg can be very overwhelming and unpleasant. However, it's anything but inactive. To the OP, As far as mixing the two, I'd be careful because of all the reasons mentioned in the thread. Also, I've read trip reports of people doing this combo who've said the drugs seem to fight each other. However, others like it. If you want to try it, start small and work your way up.

 

[Ismene]

Because pharmacology is a quantitative science, you can calculate that.

So this dosage came straight from the coroner? Is that a fact or just a guess?

Pick up any basic pharmacology text and read the first chapter, and you'll probably have all the tools you need to figure that out

Perhaps with a couple of standard drugs like heroin I might agree with you Roger. But, particularly as this sounds like the first overdose of this sort in human history, is there really going to be tables linking dosages, particularly, "IV" dosages to half-lifes quite yet? Has anyone even studied the half-life of MXE in the human body? This drug gets manufactured a year ago in a chinese lab and within 12 months the medical establishment has established IV overdose half-lifes?

Who did this research? Is there a difference in the half-life when taken orally as opposed to "IV"? How did they calculate it was all in the IV as opposed to him taking some of it orally for example?

 

[Incunabula]

You were just having a bad day wern't you.

Yeah, I have a tendency to overreact sometimes, sorry ´bout that.

On topic. I believe that, that death in Sweden did happen. But to be honest, I haven´t been able to find anything about it using google. And there´s nothing about it on Erowid either, so it could actually just be an urban legend!

About the dosage, it could be so simple that his friends were there, and saw how much he took......

Does anybody have any sources concerning this mxe/mdai IV death? it would be really interesting to read.

 

[Ismene]

About the dosage, it could be so simple that his friends were there, and saw how much he took......

Yeah maybe. Or maybe he kept a dated journal beside him of everything he shot up.

Be nice to know for certain tho. That way we know it's not just some kid on the internet making up a figure and saying "That sounds deadly to me, I'll say he took that. No-one will ever know the difference".