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Potential dangers of mixing new RC's and possible causal mechanisms

synergistic.affect

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
33
Location
Glue York, Brew York
This is my first thread. I am writing it, not because i claim to have tons of info on the dangers of mixing new RC's, but more so because I, as well as anybody that has even the slightest inkling of pharmacological knowledge, know that mixing some of these drugs no doubt can and will have horrible consequences in the near or distant future.

It is very alarming the way so many give no thought to these drug combos or think them to be harmless because thier heart didn't burst the first 2 times.

So what i would like to do is start this thread for people to contribute known or speculated info (please be clear which is which) about what some of these combos might do.

For example: does anyone know why Tramadol mixes so dangerously with most RC's? I know it is probably trams re-uptake inhibition but can anyone expand on that? Are there other drugs that are comparable to tramadol where similar warnings might extend?

Or: Does anyone know if all drugs with ssri properties uniformly inhibit 5ht reuptake including the dreaded 5ht(is it 2a) receptor that underlies the heart valve damage from fenphen and 4-fa relatives?

there is a wealth of knowledge on this board. these RC's are too new in a lot of cases. but looking at the info we can find, sharing knowledge we have, attempting to extrapolate info from similar compounds, etc. would likely go a long way in harm reduction. All in all, im hoping we, as a community, can start highlighting the underlying mechanisms that drug-on-drug interactions can harm or kill through. A lot of these RC's work on the same receptors. Let's see if we can't comprehensively organize some data on this subject.

Thanks
 
5ht2a is the receptor implicated in psychedelia. 5ht2b is the heart-damage one i believe.
 
Tramadol is a SSRI (messes with serotonin) and can cause seizures (lowers the seizure threshold). Compare: Wellbutrin (seizure threshold), every SSRI, NaSSA, and SNRI drug ever.

4-fa is just fine, fenfluramine hit 5-HT2B fairly selectively IIRC (5-ht2a is responsible for psychedelic effects) and was designed to be taken every day for an extended period of time. The only drugs that have serious activity at 5-HT2B are things like 2C-E and a few other tryptamines. They also have activity as adrenergics and at other serotonin receptor types too.

It seems that selective overactivation of 5-HT2b is what is needed to trash heart valves, because SSRIs don't do that as far as I know.

There's too many different activities drugs can have to have a general discussion about "what doesn't mix well"? But there's a few rules of thumb that I hope should be obvious.

1. Don't mix drugs that mess with the same systems in different ways.
Don't take a reuptake inhibitor if you're on a releasing agent. Don't take a releasing agent while you have a reuptake inhibitor active. This means no mixing MDMA and cocaine, or MDMA and SSRI's, or amphetamine and methylphenidate.

2. Don't mix sedatives.
By "sedatives" I mean opiates and GABA-ergics like alcohol, barbs, benzos.

3. Don't mix drugs with a strong effect on monoamine systems. For that matter, don't mix any monoaminergic drugs with MAOIs.
Too much dopamine release = psychosis. Too much norepinephrine = anxiety attacks. Too much serotonin = serotonin syndrome. None of these are pleasant.

3. Avoid "heroic" polydrug combinations.
Taking a bunch of Ativan, whiskey, weed, MDMA, LSD, 2C-B, mushrooms, nitrous, Oxycontin and salvia all at once would be way too unpredictable.
 
For example: does anyone know why Tramadol mixes so dangerously with most RC's?

Tramadol lowers the seizure threshold, making it dangerous to combine with stimulants. Tramadol also appears to increase serotonergic release, but in some sort of rate-limited, possibly indirect way. Still, tramadol should not be combined with 5ht releasing entactogens.

ebola
 
Tramadol is a selerotonine releasing agent, and should theoretically mix fine with other releasing agents, wich it did in my experience, i highly against doent this tough, mixing serotogenics allways comes with dangers.
 
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