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Possible Drugs of the Future

Riemann Zeta your ideas are pretty awesome. Some of em seem right on track. What I'm wondering is how long til all this happens? The departure of the mathamphetamine 'epidemic,' the demise of pharmaceutical opiates as we know them, the rise of ALOT of different types of synthed up opioids, etc. That upper/downer combo is a GREAT idea - if someone's not marketing that.. you should definitely try an patent or come up with a more concrete idea about it!

Ecstasy usage is already down, and I think will continue to go down. More 'RC' chemicals will get out onto the street, more DMT-type drugs along with those. I think if not a return of cocaine, then definitely some sort of synthesized analogue will come around soon. I'm really worried about the future of opiates though..
 
About the "demise of methylamphetamine", I highly doubt it, because I've heard statistics like: in California, 90% of the methamphetamine available now comes from the "Mexican Superlabs" which have access to TONS of ephedrine, and massive-scale equipment, and deeply entrenched smuggling rings. Also, ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are NOT the only ways of making Meth... Have you ever heard of P2P? Are you aware of what common OTC product contains 99% benzaldehyde which can be directly used to produce P2P? Are you aware of the Hive researchers who are investigating methods from PPAs (which can be easily made via various methods) to the corresponding N-Methylamphetamines? Did you know that the gringard reaction can also be used to make Meth?

On the subject of designer opioids, this is one of my favorite topics to research, I've been working on writing a little web-book of everything I've learned on the subject... (to be finished when I get around to it)

But to point you towards some of the research I find most interesting, check out the company www.alcasynn.com ...

AlcaSynn is an drug development company focused on lead identification and optimization of opiates.
Objective indications include: analgesics (painkillers), rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory skin
diseases, intestinal obstruction (ileus), drug dependence, obesity, Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s
disease.
Click to expand...

Opiates are used to relieve severe pain. Their main drawback, however, consists of serious sideeffects
such as respiratory depression and abnormal somnolence transmitted via the central nervous
system as well as potential drug (narcotic) dependence. The AlcaSynn product is not capable of
surmounting the blood-brain barrier, however, and cannot access the central nervous system. It is
nonetheless 120 times more powerful than morphine. AS006 may be administered intravenously as
well as transdermally and orally. Preclinical studies will be completed in the year 2004.
The AlcaSynn product takes effect where the pain arises – in the body, NOT in the brain, where it
could cause serious side-effects!
Click to expand...
http://www.alcasynn.com/forms/pr_en_040224.pdf
 
I am certainly aware of most of the amphetamine syntheses out there. There are a number of very clever ones, especially when one delves into the depths of organometallic chemistry. However, the most frequently employed (by far) synthesis has to be birtch reduction of ephedrine. No more ephedrine, no more birtch reduction, no more Billy-bob and Bubba using their primary-school education to synthesize amphetamines in a trailer park. Certainly organized crime (especially the Russian mafia and Mexican cartels) will be happy to 'pick-up the slack,' but I doubt they will synthesize N-methylamphetamine, which requires methylamine, when they can make (dl)-amphetamine with ammonia.

And while I'm talking chemistry, if AlcaSynn is making an opioid that is n times more potent than morphine but doesn't cross the BBB yet still works as an analgesic, why isn't loperamide the number-one painkiller of choice. In fact, isn't it devoid of any analgesic effect? I could see a vanilloid receptor antagonist or an NMDA-receptor antagonist being modified to not cross the BBB, but aren't opioids based on CNS-mediated analgesia?
 
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Maybe it's like (the structurally related) diphenoxylate. It crosses the BBB, and is subject to abuse, but has no analgesic activity. Strange eh?

As for the ephedrine problem, apparently Kyrgystan is awash with methcathinone, and the ephedrine for that comes from growing E. sinesis and extracting it. If the ephedrine souces for the US were to dry up, I'd bet places like Utah would end up being a big source of naturally produced ephedrine (Utah's climate is about the closest to Kyrgystan I can think of)
 
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ssmurphss said:
...
I would personally like to see a higher potency marijuana strain to come out. But just tell that to the govt. when they allow only strict limited testing because its illegal.
Click to expand...

THC with higher potencies have already been synthesised already
THC-V is even comparable in strenght to LSD.
the US goverment used it in test during the vietnam war. (LSD and the isomers of THC.
 
tantric said:
4)probable return of fentanyl. Overseas labs are getting more sophisticated, and this is the most power opiate possible. a kilo of fent would be worth millions.
Click to expand...


If a kg of fent is worth millions, then how much would you estimate a kg of carfentanyl be worth? I was thinking in the billions of dollars... and only costing 10,000 to make 12g and 2 hours of chemistry to make that 12g if you know how to shortcut the procedures :)

And why overseas labs... LOL McJohhny can make carfy in the forest behind his/her house in 2 hours... no need for any lab, or being overseas.

Fentanyl analogs (particularly carfy) are some of the easiest and quickest drugs you can make, and they also yield the highest profit potential and the highest addiction potential.

The shorter lasting an opiod is + the greater euphoria it elicits in that time = the better for manufacturers of it. Why? Because the greater the user fiends for more, the more the slangers can sell, the more the manufacturers can get rid of in a given period of time.


PLUS, if you manufacture fentanyl, your fighting terrorism, so George W. Bush should give ya a medal of honor for doing so.
 
No lab, eh?

LOL McJohhny can make carfy in the forest behind his/her house in 2 hours... no need for any lab, or being overseas.

Not only do you need a lab to synthesise carfentanyl, but you need negative pressure chambers to prevent any tiny particles of the airbourne drug from finding its way into your body. You also need lots of very expensive equipment, like rotary evaporators, to ensure that the dilution of the carfentanyl onto an inert carrier compound is as close to perfectly even as is possible. All it takes is one tiny area of imperfect distribution, and you'll have lots of people dropping dead in citys all over the place. To give an idea of how potent carfentanyl is, 1kg of pure carfentanyl, when diluted on inert carrier so that dose for dose, it is the same potency as pure morphine, will produce 40 metric tonnes (yes that's tonnes) of product. That's why illicit labs only produce fentanyl derivitives that are several hundred times the potency of morphine, and even then there are still sizable outbreaks of unintentional OD's. To handle pure carfentanyl, you need a set up like they have for handling a cross between highly virulent pathogenic organisms (like Marburg virus), and high potency nerve agents (like VX).

Very few criminal organizations have the money and expertese to build their own version of Porton Down (the MoD's chemical and biological weapons research establishment - the US equivalent is Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland). Anybody with a set up, say like Shulgins, could start ordering their coffin now!
 
I'm curious to see more info., especially about THC-V (and it's comparable strength to LSD? What about in terms of (psychedelic effects/hallucinations)? Also, more info. (or a comparison chart of THC isomers) would be interesting...thanks.
 
Interesting BilZ0r, but does anyone have experience with using any of these analogues? And can you comment on how they different from good, old THC?
 
Re: No lab, eh?

fastandbulbous said:
LOL McJohhny can make carfy in the forest behind his/her house in 2 hours... no need for any lab, or being overseas.

Not only do you need a lab to synthesise carfentanyl, but you need negative pressure chambers to prevent any tiny particles of the airbourne drug from finding its way into your body. You also need lots of very expensive equipment, like rotary evaporators, to ensure that the dilution of the carfentanyl onto an inert carrier compound is as close to perfectly even as is possible. All it takes is one tiny area of imperfect distribution, and you'll have lots of people dropping dead in citys all over the place. To give an idea of how potent carfentanyl is, 1kg of pure carfentanyl, when diluted on inert carrier so that dose for dose, it is the same potency as pure morphine, will produce 40 metric tonnes (yes that's tonnes) of product. That's why illicit labs only produce fentanyl derivitives that are several hundred times the potency of morphine, and even then there are still sizable outbreaks of unintentional OD's. To handle pure carfentanyl, you need a set up like they have for handling a cross between highly virulent pathogenic organisms (like Marburg virus), and high potency nerve agents (like VX).
Click to expand...


Really gotta think outside the box here buddy. Your so wrong its not even funny. You'd be right if you looked at the synth in its full form but like I said, SHORTCUTTING the procedures.

Alls you need is a gas mask, a hazmat suit, an RBF, an ice packed water cooled condensor, a distillation setup, addition funnel, buchner vaccum equipment and 5 chemicals, 2 hours of your time, and voila...

A lil naloxone on-hand as precautionary wouldnt hurt I guess...

Also, cutting it isnt as hard as people make it out to be... its actualy pretty fucking easy. Mag stirrer, solvent, cutting agent (caffeine-lactose mix), 48 hours, and voila...
 
Have you ever been involved in any type of organic synthesis; I don't think so, because you'd know how easy it is for them to get all over the place, and with something with the potency of carfentanyl, you would only have to make the mistake once, and you'd be dead. Etorphine is used in vet. medicine, and before you start using any, you've got to have a dose of the antagonist (cyprenorphine) ready to go, it's that dangerous; and etorphine isn't anywhere hear the potency of carfentanyl.

As for the cutting onto an inert carrier, have a look at the article from the Independant on Sunday about George Marquardt (the chemist responsible for 3-methylfentanyl) in the attached word document. It's people with your simplistic approach that were responsible for a lot of OD's

So before you get all uppity about other peoples comments, do a bit of research before opening your mouth

Your so wrong its not even funny

It's not meant to be funny, it's a deadly serious matter



PS sorry if the article has the odd spelling mistake, it was scanned in using an optical character recognition programme, and they're far from perfect
 
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Moscow theartre siege

Was it ever disclosed exactly what was used in the Moscow theartre siege? I remember seeing a news programme where they mentioned that what was used was suspected to be "a derivitive of the drug fentanyl", but never heard anything more


I've included the pics that went with the article I attached in my last post. It was too big to attach them all in one go
 
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I knew alot of fentanyl was circulating the east coast in '91 and around that time. However I just thought that it was a bunch of chemists from completely different backgrounds. But this article seems to me that Marquardt was responsible for almost all of it that was clandestinely manufactured. He must have shifted a lot! 3-Methylfentanyl is already extremely powerful as it is. Carfentanil is very appealing to me but only in an abstract sense. The belief that one could manufacture carfentanil in a couple of hours by taking short cuts is very naive. The fact that hydrogen cyanide is liberated in one of the steps should help make you aware of the level of seriousness of this procedure.
 
HCN would be the least of your worries though, as HCN requires about 70mg for a fatal dose. 1mg of carfentanyl will kill quite a few people; you're working with something with a toxicity that is almost beyong belief. If the paper I looked at on one of the sites containing synthesis info was correct, a dose of carfentanyl is 2.5-5.0 ug (that's smaller than a particle of dust - subject to brownian motion; so a bit unpredictable)


Really gotta think outside the box here buddy

And what box would that be, the pine box they put you in when you die from carfentanyl poisoning?

I've had a look at some of your other posts, and you seem to a very angry person. If I'm so wrong it's not funny, show me some evidence to back up your claim, and if I'm so mistaken, I'll own up to being wrong
 
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ROFLMAO!!!

I cant beleive you are actually trying to argue with me... if you ONLY knew.


Tried, tested, and true is all I got to say to you.
 
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