Poppy Seed Tea - Taper vs Cold Turkey?

[catching fish]

Hey guys,

I've stupidly used PST daily for the past 2-3 months. I've been using anywhere from 1-2 kg a day, but for the last week it has been about 1kg a day (which doesn't mean much in terms of quantifying actual dose).

Does anybody have any experience with tapering from this? I want to go cold turkey but I have stuff I have to get out of bed and go to over the next two weeks, and during withdrawals that is near impossible.

Tomorrow I'm going half my dose to 500g, and try that out for a week. And potentially half that the week after.

Will this make the transition smoother or is it still going to be bogus. By the way how long do PST w/d last for?

Thanks guys

 

[Christ!]

Always taper if possible. Depends how strong the seeds are also...I tapered to 500g every second day then jumped off many years ago. Go even lower if you want.

It won't be that bad just have paracetamol, ibuprofen and loperamide on hand. WD lasted about a week with residual stuff 2 weeks. A sleepy antihistamine or the nighttime cold and flu tablets might help if you have trouble sleeping.

Try and pretend you've just got the flu. Because it won't be worse than the flu (unless you hype it up in your head)

 

[teological]

Hey brother, you should be fine man. I have experience with PST and lots of experience with Ms Contin Morphine pills. I have almost always found I needed at the very least, 2 - 3 kg to get something that resembles an opiate high, and as you can guess, I could not keep this up as the shop would look at me weird, as well as not be able to keep up stock.

I know I am going to get flamed here, but in my experience PST almost contains nothing but thebaine?*? and placebo. When I started using MS Contins in recreational dosing, I could no longer get a high from PST, no matter what dose, I would not rush or anything, BUT it did manage to stop withdrawals, so it must have something in it.

Going by my experience with it, your withdrawal should be about as strong as a weak MS Contin habit, if that.

Have loperamide on hand, grab some phenibut for the first day or so also go to a chemist and grab Phenergan, and you will be fine, surprised at how fine even. Let us know how it all goes and good-luck.

Also the above poster is so accurate, if you overplay it in the mind, then you will notice every little symptom magnified. Stay strong in the mind and don't fear it, as you won't be shitting the walls or anything like that.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Personally I'd switch to codeine first. You just can't measure PST accurately enough for a taper.

 

[Halif]

I know I am going to get flamed here, but in my experience PST almost contains nothing but thebaine?*? and placebo

That's a bizarre comment. What makes you think there is nothing but thebaine in PST? What tests did you run?

And how can something "contain" placebo?

Very strange line of thinking. It couldn't be more established why PST works. There are endless posts, threads, and even sites dedicated to it.

EDIT:

Going by my experience with it, your withdrawal should be about as strong as a weak MS Contin habit, if that.

I don't think it's a relevant comparison. One is an isolated opiate, the other a cocktail of alkaloids with varying potency from jar to jar.

 

[teological]

That's a bizarre comment. What makes you think there is nothing but thebaine in PST? What tests did you run?

And how can something "contain" placebo?

Very strange line of thinking. It couldn't be more established why PST works. There are endless posts, threads, and even sites dedicated to it.

Wow, great informative post Halif. I hope I didn’t shock you into omission by my strange way of thinking.

Well I did say “almost”, so that suggests that indeed different alkaloids are present, but I would not expect you to be able to pick that out, especially since you think that I meant literally “something contained placebo”. Unless you are being a smart ass? Maybe?

Well, I get a weird energy on PST, with irritability as well as lose the ability to sleep….thebaine? Maybe. Because of the morphine content? No. Please enlighten us, which one of those substances in the “cocktail” could it be?

EDIT:

I don't think it's a relevant comparison. One is an isolated opiate, the other a cocktail of alkaloids with varying potency from jar to jar.

I think it is a very relevant comparison. They are all opiates. Going by your way of thinking, we should get rid of the opioid/opiate conversion charts, as they are all different. Very strange thinking…

Also, how do you know that the cocktail of alkaloids’ potency vary from jar to jar and not from different batches the jars of seed come from? What tests have you done?

 

[Halif]

Wow, great informative post Halif.

Nice. sarcasm.

No, I'm sorry dude I just don't get you. I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass, I just read it as "containing X AND Y" as opposed to containing one, and then another abstract factor playing a part.

And really, I don't understand what you write.

I hope I didn’t shock you into omission

What does that mean? Honestly, I just don't understand the sentence.

I think it is a very relevant comparison. They are all opiates. Going by your way of thinking, we should get rid of the opioid/opiate conversion charts, as they are all different. Very strange thinking…

No, I still disagree. I don't think it's relevant. The OP is asking about tapering from PST. PST is essentially a diluted liquid opium was contains a wide range of alkaloids. Morphine Contin contains morphine, and tablet filler/binders, etc. Morphine doesn't last as long as PST and doesn't feel the same. PST can be very strong, and the WDs can last much longer than morphine alone, that's why I don't think it's a relevant comparison.

It's getting a bit simplistic to say that "they're all opiates". Would you give the same tapering advice to someone who was on methadone VS someone on fentanyl?


As for the differing potency, I'm afraid that again I don't understand what you're saying:

how do you know that the cocktail of alkaloids’ potency vary from jar to jar and not from different batches the jars of seed come from?

I'm confused.

I haven't done any testing, but I've done plenty of PST and I know that some jars are stronger than others. Sometimes there are two jars which were side by side on the supermarket shelf, and one is literally three times stronger than the other. That's my experience. That's all.

I didn't mean to be a smart-ass or wind you up, I just disagreed with some of the things you said and was confused by it. Maybe we are just on different wavelengths.

 

[Christ!]

I don't think Halif was off point.

Well, I get a weird energy on PST, with irritability as well as lose the ability to sleep….thebaine? Maybe. Because of the morphine content? No. Please enlighten us, which one of those substances in the “cocktail” could it be?


Also, how do you know that the cocktail of alkaloids’ potency vary from jar to jar and not from different batches the jars of seed come from? What tests have you done?

The weird energy with irritability is probably just too high a dose. Did it pinprick your pupils? It's an acquired taste.

Chances are if you didn't like seed tea you won't like pod tea etc. It's just the mix of alkaloids. The ratios of alkaloids don't seem to change much from batch to batch but strength obviously does. As you use it more often you get a tolerance the more unpleasant effects and start to enjoy the morphine more. IME anyway.

 

[teological]

Nice. sarcasm.

No, I'm sorry dude I just don't get you. I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass, I just read it as "containing X AND Y" as opposed to containing one, and then another abstract factor playing a part.

And really, I don't understand what you write.

What does that mean? Honestly, I just don't understand the sentence.

Hey man, all good. As long as you got that sarcastic remark, all is good. I am really not going to bother if you can not comprehend what I write, and I "confuse you".

Would you give the same tapering advice to someone who was on methadone VS someone on fentanyl?

Well, if you read my post (in which for some reason you seem to see as another language), I did not give any advice on tapering. None, nil, nada. So your comment is irrelevant in regards to my comments.

A morphine pill in the right doses can stop PST withdrawal in its tracks. So I strongly disagree with you on this. They should also get rid of general "opiate withdrawal" wikis along with the conversion charts, with your way of abstract thinking.

I haven't done any testing, but I've done plenty of PST and I know that some jars are stronger than others. Sometimes there are two jars which were side by side on the supermarket shelf, and one is literally three times stronger than the other. That's my experience. That's all. ?

That is fine. But if you read my very few posts years ago, I go into my PST usage. It was massive, daily use. I can quite confidently say, that the jars and packs that arrive in the same batch, have almost identical levels of alkaloids. The ones that arrive in a different batch, can change in potency. That is my experience, and that is all I offered, before your remarks. That’s all.?

The weird energy with irritability is probably just too high a dose. Did it pinprick your pupils? It's an acquired taste.

Chances are if you didn't like seed tea you won't like pod tea etc. It's just the mix of alkaloids. The ratios of alkaloids don't seem to change much from batch to batch but strength obviously does. As you use it more often you get a tolerance the more unpleasant effects and start to enjoy the morphine more. IME anyway.

I have used PST for a very long time, until I found pharma, now it just doesn't cut it. I need too much for one dose, which is why I think it contains very little morphine, and a lot of thebaine/other unpleasant alkaloids. By the time I can feel the morphine, I am already wired to the head, and feel like I had too much coffee.

Too high a dose in the unpleasant alkaloids (which is what I have been stating), probably. Again, morphine? No. So the ratio is less morphine, more unpleasant alkaloids.IME

I have also read in parts of forums that the poppy in Tasmania is engineered to produce more Thebaine, for Pharma like Oxycodone. This is why I suspect that to play a role in me feeling uneasy.

Also, Halif, the reason why I remarked "great informative post", is because you have given "more info" as the reason for you edit. Great information it was.

 

[Halif]

Catching fish: I apologise for filling up your thread with rubbish. You asked for advice on tapering from PST, and then Teological and I argued in length, pointless posts, adding nothing to your query.

Posts #2 and #4 are good advice: switch to codeine CWE for a measured taper, or bump down the PST doses quickly and just ride out the WDs with OTC typical cold and flu meds - anything to control a fever, restlessness, nausea. That's it. Done.

I try to write useful informative posts on this board, but this time I got caught up arguing pointlessly. Teological has talked in circles, added pointless information, and become increasingly sarcastic. I don't know what his/her problem is, but I'm sorry that I responded at length to their posts and cluttered your thread.


Catching fish said:

Does anybody have any experience with tapering from this?

Teological said:

Well, if you read my post (in which for some reason you seem to see as another language), I did not give any advice on tapering. None, nil, nada. So your comment is irrelevant in regards to my comments.

Can't help myself... look at that comment above. You didn't give any advice on tapering, which was the point of the thread, and you deem my comment irrelevant to your comments.... your comments which are irrelevant to this thread. Does anyone see why I find this confusing? Going around in circles with non-information (PST contains mostly thebaine), and adding in MS contins to a PST tapering thread, and getting uppity when I don't understand bizarre shit like "I hope I didn’t shock you into omission"... I still don't know what the fuck that means.

Catching fish: again, sorry. I'm out of this thread. Good luck with the taper. I'm sure you'll make it through fine.

 

[Christ!]

I have also read in parts of forums that the poppy in Tasmania is engineered to produce more Thebaine, for Pharma like Oxycodone. This is why I suspect that to play a role in me feeling uneasy.

A completely different strain of Poppy is grown for high thebaine content called 'Norman'. These crops are processed separately and the seeds are destroyed (or used as fuel) - but they don't get used for food purposes.

If you get a high enough tolerance to pure opiates like morphine,oxycodone, methadone etc. and dose lots of PST to try and get a buzz, of course you'll get sick/unenjoyable experience. You'd be basically overdosing on the other alkaloids before you reached high enough levels of morphine. It's all relative to your tolerance.


Apologies catching fish let us know how you get on OK?

 

[teological]

Halif, the title is; Taper VS COLD TURKEY.

I did not recommend a taper, just Cold Turkey as it will not be heavy on him. I have used PST and MS Contins extensively and used both interchangeably. I know how WD from both feel like, so I gave my 2 cents.

So post 2 and 4 are good, not mine ay? lol

What is wrong with grabbing phenibut for during the day, using Phenergan for sleep and adding in Imodium when needed? I also tried to give him strength in knowing he won't be too bad...what is wrong with this advice? rofl

Umad bro? getting a new hole ripped with each comment you make.

 

[drug_mentor]

Please lets stop the bickering in this thread and keep it on topic. There really is no need to be having shots at one another over minor disagreements when you both have knowledge and experience to add to the thread.

I have to admit I am curious what the hell was meant by "shock you into omission" though, I don't think Halif was having a shot at you in regards to that teological, as I honestly find that confusing myself.

 

[footscrazy]

I'm guessing the phrase was meant to be 'shock you into submission'.

catching fish - I would recommend tapering too, rather than cold turkey, especially considering you have stuff to do. Personally, I've found pst withdrawals pretty unpleasant, but then again, I think my low tolerance for them has been influenced by the fact that I was never committed to actually coming off. I think having a strong desire to be done with it makes a big difference in terms in how you perceive the withdrawals.

I've tried to taper seeds in the past, by dropping 100g a day or whatever, but never had much success with this because as soon as I got low enough not to be feeling any effects at all, I'd lose my motivation to keep dropping. Again though, this is mostly just a commitment issue on my part. I do think a codeine taper could help, though you might want to separate the dose into two, as it doesn't last for long compared to pst. A dose in the morning when you wake up to get you started, and one to help you sleep, for example.

You can use dxm to relieve some of the symptoms of withdrawal - just low, therapeutic doses a few times a day. Loperamide can also relieve wd symptoms, and many people swear by this, though I've always found dxm more effective myself. I've also used ultra low dose naltrexone to lower my tolerance with really good effect at times, but naltrexone isn't always easy to get your hands on.

If you could access suboxone you could consider a rapid sub taper, there's a few guides here on BL for that. I don't know if I'd recommend that, but if you can get it I reckon it's important to keep the doses really low and taper quickly, within a week or so, as getting off sub is a problem in itself.

Good luck.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Having to get up and do shit everyday basically rules out CT. I have found that the amount of different alkaloids in varying doses can make PST WD quite nasty. You may be doing well and then have the same dose and it is 3 times as strong, I have even heard of people being shocked into omission.

Switching to something like codeine (CWE) allows you to measure your taper doses far more accurately. Although even the change over can be a little unpleasant because you are effectively going CT on some shit present in PST that we don't even know about. At least codeine is just codeine.

Good luck.

 

[Halif]

Thank you guys for getting things back on track. I don't usually bother to argue on forums. Apologies and good luck Catching Fish! Let us know how you get on.

 

[teological]

Catching Fish, I apologise for flooding your thread, but my first post was in good spirits and I also tried to give you encouragement.

I still stand by all my statements and I have given my reasons. What I meant by my now infamous words that the Bluelight sheep are now using in their very own sentences (Dr Phibes), is that Halif seemed so shocked (GASP!) by my comments and bizarre thought patterns, that he neglected to post anything useful in regards to the thread title and his first post. Nothing, nil, nada..

Halif, you don't bother to argue on forums, and you try to post in an accurate manner, but your entire first post tried to just pick me apart, quote after quote of what I had written. You then had the audacity to edit the post, attack me some more, then in your comments give the reason "extra info". What extra info? You call that information? So don't hint that this thread blowing out into an argument was because of me. You started it right from the get go. So don't try and backtrack now, and claim that you don't like to argue and put down other people, because clearly you do. It does not look like this was your first time picking apart someone's comments.

Good luck Catching Fish, they will not be that bad, trust me on this.

 

[spacejunk]

Think Phibes was taking the piss out of your mangled metaphor, teo.
Don't take this as me joining in on your derailing of the thread, just think Halif was - as is his style - trying to be helpful and offer his well informed opinion. He wasn't jumping down your throat!
You need to settle down man. Halif makes some good points but you seem to have a fragile ego or something. If you think he's being aggressive or nitpicking...well, maybe a little self-reflection is in order.
Perhaps irritability is caused by more than PST for some folks?

I agree with what Christ!, Halif and Footscrazy advise; taper as best you can (but I agree that this is hard with a substance of such unknown potency/make-up as seed tea).

All the best, catching fish.
You'll be ok, especially if you taper as much as you can manage before jumping off.

 

[footscrazy]

Drug_Mentor has already asked that the bickering stops. Any further posts derailing this thread and infractions will be handed out. Halif has let it go - teological, you need to too.

 

[catching fish]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been able to post for a little while but I have been reading this thread and appreciate everyone's input.

Switching to codeine obviously seems like a pretty logical choice in theory. However over the past month or so I've had a few days where I've had no poppy seeds and have tried to use codeine to manage WD but had no luck whatsoever. As in doses around 400 mg can not be felt at all and do close to nothing to stop the progression of WD. I have no idea why because I used to have great success with codeine when I was new to the scene. I would occasionally enjoy either codeine or PST every so often to great effect before I moved onto much harder opiates and spent the better part of two years battling the habit. When I stopped I expected to get absolutely no effect from codeine or PST but surprisingly PST did do a little bit.

Over the past couple of weeks of pretty much just remained on 400-500 g of seeds because I've just had a lot of bullshit going on and just didn't have the energy to drop it further. Even with the assumingly large variance of active ingredients in each dose I feel the exact same each day. That is to say close to nil narcotic effects and close to nil WD (apart from mornings). I mean it sucks that I've stalled but I guess I should take something from the fact that it is far less that what the doses were a few weeks ago. I don't know.

I guess the next step would be to half that to about 200g and see how that goes. Fucking poppy seeds man.