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Poppy Seed Tea - Reason it is so incredibly long acting?

Johnsonville

Johnsonville

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
43
Location
The land of the blue grass
Before I get started, I just want to give fair warning that this may get lengthy but hear me out. I welcome anyone's feedback, this quandary has been on my mind for a while. Also keep in mind, this is told from the point of view of one with only a moderate opiate tolerance, but try to view it from an objective point of view.

Alright, as anyone who has downed a nice brew of PST knows once it hits you, you are flying sky high, nodding hard, for the whole day and the next morning; a half-life I estimate is on par with maybe 10-12 hours. However, if one were to get a hold of some Morphine Sulfate, regardless of method of ingestion, it is really only effective for a couple of hours tops with a rather sharp peak in effect before you begin the come down (Half-life according to wikipedia at 2-3 hours).

I have a theory I would like to get some feedback on from my fellow BlueLighters, as too why it lasts so incredibly long, as opposed to the pure form of the active ingredient - Morphine. Some people have argued that the reason PST last so long is that the other major alkaloids found in opium (Codeine, Thebane, and Papaverine) are competitive for the same liver enzyme (CYP P450 2D6, if I'm not mistaken). This I would say would probably play some role, but this would still make for a very pronounced peak/crash with the half-life only being extended for a limited time period.

My theory is that with the combination of these alkaloids, the protein binding of Morphine must be greatly increased thus leading to an incredibly long duration of action, and higher doses being more safely ingested. This is in addition to the very high dose of morphine/codeine delivered in PST. According to the toxicology reports on PoppySeedTea.com, showed that the amount ingested that killed a young chap was around 400 mg, significantly higher than the amount considered fatal (for a non-tolerant individual, at least.) That being said, if one takes Morphine Sulfate in pill form it takes much less to catch a descent nod than the dose delivered from a brew of PST. If a dose on this level were ingested this would rapidly take effect but would still follow the normal AUC of Morphine sulfate, so it would be much more dangerous. All this seems to point to protein binding playing a part in the expression of effects.

According to Wiki, the protein binding of Morphine is roughly 30-40%, which makes sense concerning it's short half-life. However Papaverine has a PB coefficient of ~90% so I would think this combination might represent competitive binding between the two or even a stronger bond when bonding does occur. I tried to get information on Thebane but couldn't find any information available. And finally the last of the major alkaloids, Codeine whose stats are right on par with those of Morphine.

I have a fair background in Chemistry and this is what I put together, because it made sense to me at least lol. But what are your guy's thoughts on this? If, you disagree, how would you explain the great variance in duration of action between PST and pure MS, I welcome opposing view points! Thanks for the help guys!
 
[darkside] [bdd] [healthy living]
I think it all greatly depends on levels of habituation of course; there are times where within 2-5 hours (when the codeine has converted to morph) & all I wanted more

There where times where I combined with dxm & >1p dose, with redosing of both. This at times felt quite toxic; easily annoyed like I remember on larger DXM doses, and disassociated so it felt like I wasn’t high, because I didn’t have a body.
It built into this 10-25 hour window, where I would nod for 10 minutes wake up and go back to nodding up until the night, like I hadn’t slept and slept then all day laying around. Needless to say these long windows allowed physical dependence.

I also have been justifying using anymore, by trying lemon infusion less, but possibly lemon after wards here. This is to have my body convert codeine into morphine, because I have read that morphine is a neurotoxin as opposed to codeine in a degree so.

This is how I regularly drink green/black tea, is not very much lemon to begin with because it could bring out tannin. I actually drink decaf tea allot so I have even fathomed getting around to some poppy seed milk (un morphinated/codeinated) and have once or twice.
Afterwards I love to add lemon, and quite so (in-fact I believe that by the nature of scurvy, alkalinity or just good taste) that lemon is at least essential for a tea drinker if they are getting into the habit of drinking tea instead of having fruits and veggies for antioxidants.
 
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Ugh... You are a bigger man than I if you can down that Poppy Milk lol. Im not sure though, I think that habituation does play a big role in PST's effects however I just can't see that causing such a large variation in the length PST lasts as opposed to pure Morph. Though with habituation the time it lasts does go down, but assuming someone with no/little tolerance who drinks PST can feel good all day whereas Morphine will still only have them feeling good for a couple of hours. With Morph being the only active ingredient in opium, granted codeine is a prodrug, that time great variation has to be explained somehow.
 
Opium, poppy pod tea, poppy seed tea etc all contain a lot more alkaloids than just morphine, codeine, papaverine etc. I would suppose it's a consequence of competitive metabolism and inhibition of certain CYP enzymes.
 
Its all relative. I can down a gallon with 20 large pods saturated in it, and get a slight buzz that doesnt last very long, but I guess my tolerance is pretty high.

On a side not I have been looking for a job all morning up in BG, there isnt shit it seems. I want to move back be with all my friends from HS, but there are no decent jobs, online that is.
 
pofacedhoe said:
enzyme saturation
Click to expand...

Do you care to explain this? Is it just that simple that can explain such an increase?

Droppersneck said:
Its all relative. I can down a gallon with 20 large pods saturated in it, and get a slight buzz that doesnt last very long, but I guess my tolerance is pretty high.

On a side not I have been looking for a job all morning up in BG, there isnt shit it seems. I want to move back be with all my friends from HS, but there are no decent jobs, online that is.
Click to expand...

It all depends on the seeds you get in my experience. But apply over here at the Western, I'm sure they're always hiring people for all the summer jobs. I'm not really the one to ask though, Im originally from Louisville so I'm going home for the summer.
 
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1. england

and

2. there are a lot of alkaloids in poppy tea that all compete for the same enzyme and this slows down the breakdown of morphine as only so much of it can be broken down by that enzyme causing a delayed tapering high. the subjective experience of poppy tea is that it slowly decreases in intensity as opposed to lasting 24 hours and then rapidly dropping off out of knowhere. i had some the other day and even into the next day there was a high but it was constantly getting less. when you smoke opium you KNOW when it wears of and it does NOT slowly fade out.
 
morphine definitely isn't the only active drug in poppies. even ignoring codeine as a prodrug, there's still papaverine and some isoquinolines.
 
Hammilton said:
morphine definitely isn't the only active drug in poppies. even ignoring codeine as a prodrug, there's still papaverine and some isoquinolines.
Click to expand...

clearly codeine is active, but it then is metabolised into morphine, the other drugs you mentioned seem like they would not have opiate effects of their own.

there is also thebaine

the delay in morphine metabolism (which i presume is the reason the high lasts so long) could be caused by enzymes used to break it down being saturated with other alkaloids from the plant, leaving the morphine free to get you high for longer untouched.
 
I just ordered some seeds to give this a try the other day. Does anyone have any good links or personal recipes they would suggest?? It would be greatly appreciated.
 
^^^^Well, i thiink your user name is suited for poppy seed tea. I tried washing a few points of good seeds (straight from my own pods), and I only got a few sips in before i gave up. And i can drink liters of 40 gram poppy pod teas without incidence. The taste is not bitter from the seed scum..................but...............the sheer volume of fluid and ugh,..........
 
IME, there is no way to dress up poppy seed tea. I've had it 3 times, actually, and since I overshot the dose twice, it now induces too much nausea to ingest. I'm guessing that there's some possible extraction to clean out some of the oils, but I can't see it being worth it.

I'm also a pussy though: I think that poppy pod tea is "pretty bad".

even ignoring codeine as a prodrug, there's still papaverine and some isoquinolines.
Click to expand...

We should ignore codeine though, as there really isn't much of it in the plant (in comparison to morphine content, adjusting for potency).

So are we sure that this is due to enzymatic inhibition wrought by other alkaloids? I've also heard speculation that the morphine salt in the plant might have different absorption properties from the sulphate, but I don't know how plausible this is.

Would enzymatic inhibition also suggest that it isn't particularly useful to take Tagament with poppy tea?

ebola
 
^^^^No, you are quite right ebola, the pharmacokinetics of morphine sulfate oral suspensions (oramorph, etc) differ greatly from the pod alkaloids. A good brew of pods from a stovetop expresso maker is subjectively, superior in both qualitative and pharmacokinetics. And the taste.....well I developed a taste for it, I would enjoy a dark, bitter brew. But the seed tea, not a chance. You need multiple liters of water to wash off enough seeds to produce any effect nearly comparable to 500ml of a strong cup of pod 'expresso'..........

Even I, who have done all sorts of extreme things out of curiousity (my experiments with wormwood extractions ended spectaculary horrible, i was burping it up for weeks) cannot drive a few liters of that poppy seed gunk. With store bought seeds, the yields are likely terrible, and the seeds I used came straight from strong pods......to each their own, snort a line of pukateine if you want..........
 
Poppy pod tea ain't shit, I never found it tasted any stronger than any other kind of tea, maybe a bit "earthier" tasting but that's it...

The CWE liquid from a supersaturated codeine extraction, on the other hand, holy moley. Good luck taking that down without some kind of mindnumbingly sweet chaser (I use watermelon Kool-Aid with about 3/4 the recommended water, or hot chocolate that has been cooled down).

But yeah, if you can't drink poppy pod tea, man the fuck up. Haha
 
I said poppy pod tea was good stuff..............the seed" tea" was less" nasty" tasting to the average person (expresso made pod tea is very bitter......if its not very bitter you have weak pods, shitty prep, or insufficient dose; 40-50 grams put through the expresso was enough to get me almost nodding, and im naturally of high tolerance). To get a similar effect to 50g of prime pod expresso from the seeds (without some long drawn out extraction; the pod expresso takes 10 minutes) would require pounds of seeds, and huge amount of liquid, a big mess and hassle, with emesis being a near inevitably. I tried to make it with some seeds straight from the pods, and aftertaking a few gulps, i looked at the huge amount of liquid remaining and decided it would not be worth it. I would resort to poppy straw tea if I needed to, but not the seed tea (buy the freaking codeine online, or go to your local 'chemist' to buy some neurofen plus, panadeine forte, etc, etc and do a simple CWE. Good seeds are meant for growing, not drinking.....
 
negrogesic said:
I said poppy pod tea was good stuff..............the seed" tea" was less" nasty" tasting to the average person (expresso made pod tea is very bitter......if its not very bitter you have weak pods, shitty prep, or insufficient dose; 40-50 grams put through the expresso was enough to get me almost nodding, and im naturally of high tolerance). To get a similar effect to 50g of prime pod expresso from the seeds (without some long drawn out extraction; the pod expresso takes 10 minutes) would require pounds of seeds, and huge amount of liquid, a big mess and hassle, with emesis being a near inevitably. I tried to make it with some seeds straight from the pods, and aftertaking a few gulps, i looked at the huge amount of liquid remaining and decided it would not be worth it. I would resort to poppy straw tea if I needed to, but not the seed tea (buy the freaking codeine online, or go to your local 'chemist' to buy some neurofen plus, panadeine forte, etc, etc and do a simple CWE. Good seeds are meant for growing, not drinking.....
Click to expand...

I just wanted to add that while I understand why you assume that seeds from your own pods would be much more potent than store-bought seeds, the opposite is actually true. Here is why:

The reason that seeds have any alkaloids on them at all has to do with the process by which food-grade seeds are harvested. Fresh pods are basically thrashed up and the seeds are collected (usually washed) and then sold as food products. Because the fresh pods are thrashed, the latex gets all over the seeds, and if the seeds are not COMPLETELY washed, some of the latex remains on the seeds, which can then be extracted.

When you try to do a wash of the seeds you collected from your own dry pods, the seeds were never exposed to the latex in a similar way. The seeds simply remained in the pods as they dried.

So while you would expect the seeds from your own, potent, dried pods to be stronger, it is actually the store-bought pods that underwent this violent process which contain more alkaloid residue. I'm sure the actual pods that the store-bought seeds came from were far weaker than the pods you use for tea, but the latex on these weak pods had a much greater opportunity to stick on to the exterior of the seeds.
 
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