Poly drug use and cycling to minimize dependency & tolerance risk - In other words this idiot's addicted to being high

[placebonaut]

2 weeks since my last drink, starting to feel the benefit of it, much more energy.

I'm coming up to 3 weeks since my last pregabalin dose as well - think i will aim for 6 weeks break and then give it a go every other week to see how I get on.

2 months + since coke - going to add this into the mix as an occasional treat at some point

I'm having success with the 2 days of nothing per week (maybe a bit of weed), and then rotating things over 3 days window is working well for me, this includes:- Ketamine (no k-holes, just lighter usage over a few hours), Amphetimine (1 dose 30-50mg), MDMA (once ever 2 months), 2CB (becoming a weekly thing), and GBL at time though I like to mix it with mephedrone. I'm also taking Soma + diazapam twice a week.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I was gonna move this, but seeing all of the responses you have gotten, I definitely wouldn't want to mess with that. It looks like people are really digging it. My advice ia for you to start a blog. I'm sure a lot or the people would read it just as we are reading here now.

 

[placebonaut]

I was gonna move this, but seeing all of the responses you have gotten, I definitely wouldn't want to mess with that. It looks like people are really digging it. My advice ia for you to start a blog. I'm sure a lot or the people would read it just as we are reading here now.

thanks Keif.

A blog is an interesting idea, will have to have a think about that, it's certainly already been a bit of a journey and there's more to go.....

 

[Vastness]

I haven't read the whole thread but to me your plan is great and sounds quite sustainable. Love the effort you've put into the tables in the first post, haha...

To me, cocaine and ketamine are the only ones I'd be a bit wary of but that's only because the way I used to do cocaine was combined with alcohol on benders, which would leave me feeling like absolute shit the next day, if you're just using a small amount now and then it might be totally fine. Kinda the same with ketamine, but again that's only because the way I do ketamine is multi gram benders over several days typically rather than just a few lines once a month and call it a night... So your way might actually be totally fine. I mean tbh... I still do that with ketamine. But now it's like, 2-3 times a YEAR, maximum. And honestly... I've said a lot of shit before about the subtle darkness of ketamine and dissociatives generally and I stand by that but the older I get and the more I stress myself out pointlessly about the drugs I'm doing and yoyo between stone cold sobriety and giving myself permission to have periods of doing a few more drugs, the more I think that most of my problems relating to substance use have their roots in internalized prohibitionist propaganda and the toxicity of shame and self-shaming for just indulging in something relatively harmless and fun now and then. Some people will call me an addict in denial, I think I'm cool with that.

All that said the only drugs that really caused me serious issues in retrospect (besides ketamine, which I appear to have kept doing regardless, if a lot less frequently) were stimulants prescribed for ADHD, specifically dexamphetamine and the false feeling of safety provided by a doctor telling me it was OK to take that every single day. And you haven't even put any of those on your list, so, great stuff.

Benzos, dangers are really overblown IMO if you're not prone to dose escalation and can self-deselect any specific ones that make you do weird stuff (for me it's xanax which I won't be touching again - but I take clonazepam on and off daily for periods of months at a time, many people say don't do that, and somewhat for good reason, but for me it mostly works).

Everything else, actually yeah I have nothing else to say, I think you're doing well and will be fine. Don't let that lull you into a false sense of security obviously but IMO your current plan is well within the margins of safety and sustainability for a while, perhaps indefinitely although if you were to cut out anything entirely I'd say cut the cocaine first, that isn't really doing you any good no matter how infrequently you do it (I don't think - happy to be proven wrong if anyone wants to link to some study or other, it's possible my thoughts here are influenced by my own biases). But you don't have to, of course, your choices are your own and quite honestly it sounds like you know yourself, know what you're doing and have really thought this through well.

 

[placebonaut]

I haven't read the whole thread but to me your plan is great and sounds quite sustainable.

Thanks for all the advice and feedback

Think making this sustainable is the key thing, my life is in a bit of a strange place right now, I'm between jobs so the temptation is very strong to just get high every day....

but I think once I start work again then that will in itself reduce my usage just because I can't function at work while high!

Love the effort you've put into the tables in the first post, haha...

if you only knew!

I might start a new thread sharing some of the research and tools I've developed to get here, will require a bit of thought, effort and structure, maybe a project for when I start using pregabalin again

To me, cocaine and ketamine are the only ones I'd be a bit wary of

think that's a spot on call out, I'm fortunate because I've never really been a stim person so coke is very much a take it or leave it thing with me anyway, ket however I fucking love, very versatile. I'd be very happy just taking it once or twice a week at low doses to be honest.

I posted this in a different thread but combining low dose ket with soma and a benzo was a truly epic combo for me, will be something I go back to time and time again, I'm tempted to just save my ket usage for that combo alone, it's not far away from scratching my alcohol itch - had to stop drinking as it was killing me.

All that said the only drugs that really caused me serious issues in retrospect (besides ketamine, which I appear to have kept doing regardless, if a lot less frequently) were stimulants prescribed for ADHD, specifically dexamphetamine and the false feeling of safety provided by a doctor telling me it was OK to take that every single day. And you haven't even put any of those on your list, so, great stuff.

Occasional Amphetamine use is on the list, but prefer it in combo than on it's own

Benzos, dangers are really overblown IMO if you're not prone to dose escalation and can self-deselect any specific ones that make you do weird stuff (for me it's xanax which I won't be touching again - but I take clonazepam on and off daily for periods of months at a time, many people say don't do that, and somewhat for good reason, but for me it mostly works).

I simply don't find any benzo recreational on their own so have never gone stupid with them, even when I've pushed them to high doses I'm usually quite disappointed. Didn't like blacking out on kpins + alcohol, or the consequences of it with my wife who had to get me home!

So I only ever take them in combo with other things

Everything else, actually yeah I have nothing else to say, I think you're doing well and will be fine. Don't let that lull you into a false sense of security obviously but IMO your current plan is well within the margins of safety and sustainability for a while, perhaps indefinitely

I think I'm heading in the right direction to something that is sustainable, but frequency of use needs to be reduced for some things (soma once a week and pregabalin once a fortnight)

although if you were to cut out anything entirely I'd say cut the cocaine first

I was using coke more when I was drinking, but it's been 69 days since I last took some, will just maybe have a little every so often when on a break from other things I think

 

[agoraphobe]

Another problem with poly drug use (me) - Gabapentin, Kratom, THC, Ativan, Phenibut cycled. I never know what I'm wd from. I can kinda tell if its mood/sadness that it's the kratom or gabapentin and if anxiety ativan but it's still murky. I know I never wd from phenibut because that one I'm able to keep at just once a week. I don't enjoy it enough to want to take more times.

Boy am I in a shit mental state. It would be so so so much better if I could just go back to doing kratom every 72 hours instead of 48. That extra 24 hour break has been so hard to achieve due to life stesses. I have a plan, something awful happens at work and I say fuck it I'm dosing. Best part, because it's only 48 hours I just keep geting barely enjoyable highs. Like bottom barrel, okay I feel decent kinda highs. I'm going to try again for the 72 hours and not dose tomorrow. We shall see.

 

[placebonaut]

Another problem with poly drug use (me) - Gabapentin, Kratom, THC, Ativan, Phenibut cycled. I never know what I'm wd from.

that's the major risk with poly drug use, poly addiction.

I'm trying explicitly to avoid addiction to anything by cycling through things, taking tolerance breaks when I need to increase the doses, and by moving my usage away from the more dangerous things.

Boy am I in a shit mental state. It would be so so so much better if I could just go back to doing kratom every 72 hours instead of 48. That extra 24 hour break has been so hard to achieve due to life stesses.

I feel for you, it's been a very tough 6 months for me too with multiple major bad life events, I started drinking again heavily but have managed to stop drinking entirely for 3 weeks (tomorrow). Feeling much better for it.

It certainly sounds like a reset with the Kratom would be helpful for you, maybe start by dropping the dose?

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Another problem with poly drug use (me) - Gabapentin, Kratom, THC, Ativan, Phenibut cycled. I never know what I'm wd from. I can kinda tell if its mood/sadness that it's the kratom or gabapentin and if anxiety ativan but it's still murky. I know I never wd from phenibut because that one I'm able to keep at just once a week. I don't enjoy it enough to want to take more times.

Boy am I in a shit mental state. It would be so so so much better if I could just go back to doing kratom every 72 hours instead of 48. That extra 24 hour break has been so hard to achieve due to life stesses. I have a plan, something awful happens at work and I say fuck it I'm dosing. Best part, because it's only 48 hours I just keep geting barely enjoyable highs. Like bottom barrel, okay I feel decent kinda highs. I'm going to try again for the 72 hours and not dose tomorrow. We shall see.

Ik I said this before but for me 2 vs 3x a week was the step from abuse to addiction. I used to cycle Pregabalin, Ket and Tramadol/Kratom. Luckily I never got addicted to gabas, could always limit myself, but opioids took over irresistibly... Ymmv but rotating just won't work forever. Gaps tighten and at least one of them will get you. Or all of em. Sounds like your system is already fucked up. You can try to wean out (one of ) them, or accept daily use with all the consequences.

 

[chippermonk]

Another problem with poly drug use (me) - Gabapentin, Kratom, THC, Ativan, Phenibut cycled. I never know what I'm wd from. I can kinda tell if its mood/sadness that it's the kratom or gabapentin and if anxiety ativan but it's still murky. I know I never wd from phenibut because that one I'm able to keep at just once a week. I don't enjoy it enough to want to take more times.

Boy am I in a shit mental state. It would be so so so much better if I could just go back to doing kratom every 72 hours instead of 48. That extra 24 hour break has been so hard to achieve due to life stesses. I have a plan, something awful happens at work and I say fuck it I'm dosing. Best part, because it's only 48 hours I just keep geting barely enjoyable highs. Like bottom barrel, okay I feel decent kinda highs. I'm going to try again for the 72 hours and not dose tomorrow. We shall see.

I hear you. Yeah, from my own self observation, longer breaks between dosing kratom makes for better results as far as a high goes. And even if you aren't technically in actual true withdrawal when a drug wears off ( like if you are taking it too infrequently to be addicted), you still are going to feel that rebound effect of being back to normal. If you are normally depressed and anxious, then the feeling will seem that much stronger when the drug wears off because your mind is comparing it to how you felt high.I know kratom does that with me. Pain, depression, anxiety all feel worse to me and then I really have to fight not to redose sooner than I want. I'm experimenting with trying to settle for lower doses. Verdict is out but it seems better for me, if I can learn to be satisfied with it.

 

[placebonaut]

Ik I said this before but for me 2 vs 3x a week was the step from abuse to addiction. I used to cycle Pregabalin, Ket and Tramadol/Kratom. Luckily I never got addicted to gabas, could always limit myself, but opioids took over irresistibly...

I seem to be doing ok limiting myself and not having any problem going cold turkey on anything and taking tolerance breaks.

but I think reducing the number of days a week I take drugs is a good next step for me to get the balance right.

I'm going to see if I can start by increasing the days I only use cannabis next

Ymmv but rotating just won't work forever. Gaps tighten and at least one of them will get you. Or all of em. Sounds like your system is already fucked up. You can try to wean out (one of ) them, or accept daily use with all the consequences.

my GABA is fucked, Alcohol now gone for 3 weeks.

think I maybe need to cut out GBL or SOMA or pregab or benzos next - not sure which.

adding in 2C-B is very positive though, gives an nice alternative, as does ket - however I'm enjoying taking both with GABA, so that's not ideal, but on the plus side it lowers the gaba dose and the ket dose.

I guess what I need to do is some research on what's the NET best approach, high alcohol intake versus cycling drug use, I think I have info on GABA recovery time coupled with drug logs that means I can run some calculations coupled with research on published papers to make an informed guess on what the limits are to achieve balance.

going to take a stab at this at some point in the near future as it feels like I'm starting to home in on something that has the potential to be stable for me. Quite a bit of analysis required 1st though, will post when I have my info and data together

 

[agoraphobe]

Ik I said this before but for me 2 vs 3x a week was the step from abuse to addiction. I used to cycle Pregabalin, Ket and Tramadol/Kratom. Luckily I never got addicted to gabas, could always limit myself, but opioids took over irresistibly... Ymmv but rotating just won't work forever. Gaps tighten and at least one of them will get you. Or all of em. Sounds like your system is already fucked up. You can try to wean out (one of ) them, or accept daily use with all the consequences.

To the point. No sugarcoating. You're correct. Add on top of all this. A very bad pinched nerve in neck. My right index finger is completely dead. Pain in neck. Can't sleep. No prescription pain killers or muscle relaxers. Gabapentin helps for the pain. But doesn't fix the numbness

 

[chippermonk]

@placebonaut I think another factor to take into account in doing the poly drug mixing is that kratom is supposed to be a strong inhibitor of cyp2d6 and cyp3a4, the liver enzymes that the body uses to process most drugs we take, both therapeutic and recreational. There seem to be a lot of varied potential interactions, including with drugs like statins and ketamine. They say it can cause the body not to eliminate drugs as fast and to cause blood levels to build up and for toxic metabolites to increase. Also from what I read, this creates more of a burden in the liver to process things, so potentially not good.
Anyhow, I think it's worth taking this into account. It would be nice to have more practical information on this aspect