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Police Brutality Thread



1) (already been covered) Yes, the number of white people killed by cops is higher than the number of black people killed by cops. This statistic is meaningless unless you adjust the numbers based on population. If you do that, blacks only make up <14% of the US. Proportionally, blacks get killed way more often and it's not even close. These are just facts.

2) Black cops are responsible for more black deaths than white cops. I've not looked this up independently, but let's assume it's true. A fundamental point I've been trying to make is we need to change systems corrupted by racism. This includes how police are trained. If you are a cop , you are a cop first and black second. You receive the same training as the white cops. This training conditions individuals to see black men as a threat. So if you are a black cop and you want to follow your training, you will behave in these grotesque ways.

these man on the street conservative videos where they ambush random protesters are very popular, and I don't blame the creators because they're just looking to make a buck. But if you are being honest with yourself, think about their editing process. They can freely cut out any interaction where they ended up looking bad, cherry pick the dumbest people they came across throughout their 10 hours of filming. It's not an accurate representation of anything really. It's just entertainment.
 
It looks like we're back to square one after the killing of an African American man in a Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta. WTFuck is wrong with police?!?

This probably deserves it's own thread...
 
Well, I made a decision today. I am tired of not doing anything, chilling out here in the middle of nowhere. I am going back to NYC and getting involved.

This is going to be fun.

Grab my backpack, drugs, cash, one change of clothes, my balls...

Set.
 
It looks like we're back to square one after the killing of an African American man in a Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta. WTFuck is wrong with police?!?

This probably deserves it's own thread...


Isn't that the one where he turned around and pointed something at them? Even in a game of charades with the police I wouldn't point so much as a pinky at them.
 
Isn't that the one where he turned around and pointed something at them? Even in a game of charades with the police I wouldn't point so much as a pinky at them.
It was a taser he pointed back at the police. He took it off of one of the cops, so they knew there was no mortal danger...
 
It was a taser he pointed back at the police. He took it off of one of the cops, so they knew there was no mortal danger...

Oh shoo *wipes brow* I thought he was like a dangerous criminal that takes weapons off officers and then points it at them.

They'll shoot you if you have a weapon that provides any competitive advantage over an officer. Stun him. Get his gun. Nope. He's dead, Jim.
 
Okay, I'm forever giving up on notifications for this thread lol. Now I have 3 pages to read and catch up on again...sigh...
 
What does cutting PD budgets accomplish? What is the desired goal here? It isn't to correct an issue (real or perceived), but to abolish a public service. And where does that take us? To Seattle, with blocks portioned off, policed by a militia, and a confusing statement of 'seceding' and/or 'list of demands' of local, state, and national gov't. But what does it accomplish - for the local citizens regardless of where they stand on any topic, for local businesses now being extorted? If the stated goal is to end systemic racism, perhaps the belief is one must abolish what exists and rebuild anew, rather than reform what exists. So, then, what is the plan to replace it with something better?

I have a ton of posts to catch up on, and your post has the most substance, so let's start line by line. Other cities have already done this, and there is definitely more than one way forward - and if they do it right, they could set a great precedence for the rest of the country. I think it's too early to say for sure what way is the best, but they are researching and discussing these exact issues right now. I have too many conflicting ideas to really offer a definitive answer at this point, but I'll say this, I do believe there is a better way forward - it's just going to take some work to hammer out the nuances and details.

What does the MBTA decision improve? Cause cops to a-take police vehicles to protests and give ripe targets for attack, b-take personal vehicles to protests and risk personal loss, c-not go to protests at all and let the protests turn to riots and people attack each other and buildings without repurcussions. Where is the positive in this beyond 'solidarity' of MBTA against cops?

Honestly, I agree with you here. This was just something I copy/pasted - I don't see much benefit besides maybe a perceived win (and remember percieved reality is reality.)

What does demolishing historic statues do to change injustice? It's history. To attempt to erase it means you risk repeating it. To keep it, put it in a corner if you don't want it out in public view, perhaps I can understand. First, does anyone recognize WHY those statues are there in the first place? At the time, the country was still needing healing by honoring leaders for both sides. Everyone says the Civil War was about slavery. Yeah, it was a big point, but not the only point. A lot of it was also states rights

I don't believe they are actually demolishing them. I think the benefit is obvious, we need to stop putting on a pedestal anyone that was agaisnt the values being prioritized right now. It's a clear show of faith that people's protests are being heard.

I'm still waiting for any definition of what is a better way of being.

As with everything that governs human behavior, it will have to have a lot of input and represent current ideals and views. I honestly think there needs to be some very critical discussions, on a large scale, to decide going forward what that better way would be - I think it's safe to say there is a better way, at least.

What happens when someone says 'all lives matter'?

They get fired. Labelled racist. I can provide links on both if needed, but the fact is unless a person gets behind this agenda, they are being persecuted for doing what they believe is being fair to ALL, not just a select portion of the population.

I get what you're saying, but when the majority is threatening societal disruption, they get listened to. It's inevitable.

So far, there's still a lot of games with numbers to argue both sides, some from honest effort and a lot for trying to prop up one's view. But we need to agree on real world facts (like the schooling and housing, IMO) that real world numbers and situations bear out, before people will say 'yeah, this is a problem we need to fix. all of us need to work to fix it'.

Trust me, I agree here. Again, there are some serious, critical discussions that need to take place - and I think we finally have the catalyst to take us there.
 
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It looks like we're back to square one after the killing of an African American man in a Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta. WTFuck is wrong with police?!?

This probably deserves it's own thread...

I was wondering how this hadn't been brought up yet. The chief of police already resigned, like come on, the insanity and timing of this is beyond words.
 
Isn't that the one where he turned around and pointed something at them? Even in a game of charades with the police I wouldn't point so much as a pinky at them.

He didn't point anything, he turned around after running off with the taser. With the current climate of this country, if I was a white police officer, unless the person had a gun, no way would I discharge my weapon. How do you justify deadly force in response to a taser?

I guess I'll say this, let's assume he did point the taser at the police. He had already been patted down and the officers knew he was not armed. In order to use deadly force, the officers need to have imminent danger to their life - so if it's okay for them to use a taser gun on someone as a non-lethal compliance tool, why would a suspect threatening to use a taser weapon on an officer justify deadly force?

It just doesn't work, no matter how you slice it, dissect it or frame it.
 
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Look at all the white people standing up for the black. Look at the percentages.

It is pretty neat.
 
1) (already been covered) Yes, the number of white people killed by cops is higher than the number of black people killed by cops. This statistic is meaningless unless you adjust the numbers based on population. If you do that, blacks only make up <14% of the US. Proportionally, blacks get killed way more often and it's not even close. These are just facts.
The facts debunk your narrative because it's taken out of context. You're quick to adjust the number based on population yet you'll ignore when it's adjusted to the frequency of violent criminals' interactions with police (remember that the vast majority of people killed by police either deserved it or did something incredibly stupid to leave the cops no choice. Yes sometimes it's also police incompetence).
Fact - for every 10,000 people arrested by police (fair adjustment) 4 whites are killed for every 3 blacks.
Plus 6% (black males) of the population is responsible for 50% of the homicides if you want to view things that way.

2) Black cops are responsible for more black deaths than white cops. I've not looked this up independently, but let's assume it's true. A fundamental point I've been trying to make is we need to change systems corrupted by racism. This includes how police are trained. If you are a cop , you are a cop first and black second. You receive the same training as the white cops. This training conditions individuals to see black men as a threat. So if you are a black cop and you want to follow your training, you will behave in these grotesque ways.
This happens a lot as well. When a statistic doesn't match the narrative it's blamed on an intangible infestation of white supremacy.
You're insinuating there's some anti-black training that all police go through which isn't true.
What's more likely true is that white cops are hesitant to shoot black suspects because they're acutely aware of the potential ramifications.
Black police aren't as worried so they're more likely to shoot black suspects. This hurts the narrative so it must be explained away by systemic police racism. I don't like these explanations because it denies black people agency i.e. their thoughts and actions must be being controlled by white supremacy. It's not possible that you could just be wrong about the bigger picture.

Anyone who refers to SARS-CoV-2 as the "Chinese disease" is not only screaming their bias, but also their intelligence level (it's a virus, not a disease, that originated in Wuhan - a disease is a set of symptoms caused by the virus)
I agree that it shouldn't be called the Chinese virus because it may have come out of Fort Detrick, MD.
We don't know for sure that this virus originated in China, there's evidence now that this virus was spreading in other countries as far back as early-mid 2019.
All we know for a fact is that the Chinese government was the first to publicly identify and then act on this virus.
 
Most Humans beings in general want justice and not revenge in the USA, and that's a lot to hope for despite what's happening. Veiled threats aren't going to bring any solution to the table. Victimization either. I have yet to meet a person who has never been insulted, threatened, objectified or discriminated against for his/her color of skin, ethnicity, or gender. If being followed in stores and getting a few nasty comments is the worst you got, you're damn lucky.

And democracy was built upon unimaginable injustice. True. What else do we have? Have you watch the world lately? There are people in third World countries who would kill to get US citizenship, not because they are fond of their policy, but in the US, they have at least a chance to be treated like human beings, their kids have a chance of a better future, no matter how little.

Destroying every thing that made this country a place where it was worth living, smearing whites for crimes they didn't commit, is not justice. It's spitting on the grave of all those who came before and strived to make this country a better place. It's also putting in jeopardy the future.

There are more than 45 millions slaves in the world today. Most are young women and children. Enslaved and sold like cattle by their fellow country men. Some end up in the West. BLM doesn't give a crap about those people. Why? Because it has no political interest atm. Because it doesn't count when it's dark skinned people behaving worse than animals.

Indians (from India) have been the worst hit by slave trade (more than 12 millions enslaved), African kingdoms got rich thanks to the triangular trade, because they specialized in hunting down other tribes, or tribes were handing out a few of their members. It takes two to tango. But that won't be thought in schools, because it doesn't fit the political agenda of "divide and rule".
 
I can't believe Daniel Shaver's killer was acquitted. If protesters were mad about that too, and genuinely protesting police brutality then I would respect their movement.
But they'll say that Shaver's death isn't as important as Floyd's death - which would make them a racist.




It's sad that someone has to write this anonymously:


UC Berkeley History Professor said:
Dear profs X, Y, Z,

I am one of your colleagues at the University of California, Berkeley. I have met you both personally but do not know you closely, and am contacting you anonymously, with apologies. I am worried that writing this email publicly might lead to me losing my job, and likely all future jobs in my field.

In your recent departmental emails you mentioned our pledge to diversity, but I am increasingly alarmed by the absence of diversity of opinion on the topic of the recent protests and our community response to them. In the extended links and resources you provided, I could not find a single instance of substantial counter-argument or alternative narrative to explain the under-representation of black individuals in academia or their over-representation in the criminal justice system. The explanation provided in your documentation, to the near exclusion of all others, is univariate: the problems of the black community are caused by whites, or, when whites are not physically present, by the infiltration of white supremacy and white systemic racism into American brains, souls, and institutions.

Many cogent objections to this thesis have been raised by sober voices, including from within the black community itself, such as Thomas Sowell and Wilfred Reilly. These people are not racists or ‘Uncle Toms’. They are intelligent scholars who reject a narrative that strips black people of agency and systematically externalizes the problems of the black community onto outsiders. Their view is entirely absent from the departmental and UCB-wide communiques.

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis that should be vigorously challenged by historians. Instead, it is being treated as an axiomatic and actionable truth without serious consideration of its profound flaws, or its worrying implication of total black impotence. This hypothesis is transforming our institution and our culture, without any space for dissent outside of a tightly policed, narrow discourse.

A counter-narrative exists. If you have time, please consider examining some of the documents I attach at the end of this email. Overwhelmingly, the reasoning provided by BLM and allies is either primarily anecdotal (as in the case with the bulk of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ undeniably moving article) or it is transparently motivated. As an example of the latter problem, consider the proportion of black incarcerated Americans. This proportion is often used to characterize the criminal justice system as anti-black. However, if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black.

Would we characterize criminal justice as a systemically misandrist conspiracy against innocent American men? I hope you see that this type of reasoning is flawed, and requires a significant suspension of our rational faculties. Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict. This fact has been demonstrated multiple times across multiple jurisdictions in multiple countries. And yet, I see my department uncritically reproducing a narrative that diminishes black agency in favor of a white-centric explanation that appeals to the department’s apparent desire to shoulder the ‘white man’s burden’ and to promote a narrative of white guilt.

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews.

None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. “Those are racist dogwhistles”. “The model minority myth is white supremacist”. “Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime”, ad nauseam. These types of statements do not amount to counterarguments: they are simply arbitrary offensive classifications, intended to silence and oppress discourse. Any serious historian will recognize these for the silencing orthodoxy tactics they are, common to suppressive regimes, doctrines, and religions throughout time and space. They are intended to crush real diversity and permanently exile the culture of robust criticism from our department.

Increasingly, we are being called upon to comply and subscribe to BLM’s problematic view of history, and the department is being presented as unified on the matter. In particular, ethnic minorities are being aggressively marshaled into a single position. Any apparent unity is surely a function of the fact that dissent could almost certainly lead to expulsion or cancellation for those of us in a precarious position, which is no small number.

I personally don’t dare speak out against the BLM narrative, and with this barrage of alleged unity being mass-produced by the administration, tenured professoriat, the UC administration, corporate America, and the media, the punishment for dissent is a clear danger at a time of widespread economic vulnerability. I am certain that if my name were attached to this email, I would lose my job and all future jobs, even though I believe in and can justify every word I type.

The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution.

Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is. No discussion is permitted for non-black victims of black violence, who proportionally outnumber black victims of non-black violence. This is especially bitter in the Bay Area, where Asian victimization by black assailants has reached epidemic proportions, to the point that the SF police chief has advised Asians to stop hanging good-luck charms on their doors, as this attracts the attention of (overwhelmingly black) home invaders. Home invaders like George Floyd.

For this actual, lived, physically experienced reality of violence in the USA, there are no marches, no tearful emails from departmental heads, no support from McDonald’s and Wal-Mart. For the History department, our silence is not a mere abrogation of our duty to shed light on the truth: it is a rejection of it.

The claim that black interracial violence is the product of redlining, slavery, and other injustices is a largely historical claim. It is for historians, therefore, to explain why Japanese internment or the massacre of European Jewry hasn’t led to equivalent rates of dysfunction and low SES performance among Japanese and Jewish Americans respectively. Arab Americans have been viciously demonized since 9/11, as have Chinese Americans more recently. However, both groups outperform white Americans on nearly all SES indices – as do Nigerian Americans, who incidentally have black skin. It is for historians to point out and discuss these anomalies. However, no real discussion is possible in the current climate at our department. The explanation is provided to us, disagreement with it is racist, and the job of historians is to further explore additional ways in which the explanation is additionally correct. This is a mockery of the historical profession.

Most troublingly, our department appears to have been entirely captured by the interests of the Democratic National Convention, and the Democratic Party more broadly. To explain what I mean, consider what happens if you choose to donate to Black Lives Matter, an organization UCB History has explicitly promoted in its recent mailers. All donations to the official BLM website are immediately redirected to ActBlue Charities, an organization primarily concerned with bankrolling election campaigns for Democrat candidates. Donating to BLM today is to indirectly donate to Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign. This is grotesque given the fact that the American cities with the worst rates of black-on-black violence and police-on-black violence are overwhelmingly Democrat-run. Minneapolis itself has been entirely in the hands of Democrats for over five decades; the ‘systemic racism’ there was built by successive Democrat administrations.

The patronizing and condescending attitudes of Democrat leaders towards the black community, exemplified by nearly every Biden statement on the black race, all but guarantee a perpetual state of misery, resentment, poverty, and the attendant grievance politics which are simultaneously annihilating American political discourse and black lives. And yet, donating to BLM is bankrolling the election campaigns of men like Mayor Frey, who saw their cities devolve into violence. This is a grotesque capture of a good-faith movement for necessary police reform, and of our department, by a political party. Even worse, there are virtually no avenues for dissent in academic circles. I refuse to serve the Party, and so should you.

The total alliance of major corporations involved in human exploitation with BLM should be a warning flag to us, and yet this damning evidence goes unnoticed, purposefully ignored, or perversely celebrated. We are the useful idiots of the wealthiest classes, carrying water for Jeff Bezos and other actual, real, modern-day slavers. Starbucks, an organisation using literal black slaves in its coffee plantation suppliers, is in favor of BLM. Sony, an organisation using cobalt mined by yet more literal black slaves, many of whom are children, is in favor of BLM. And so, apparently, are we. The absence of counter-narrative enables this obscenity. Fiat lux, indeed.

There also exists a large constituency of what can only be called ‘race hustlers’: hucksters of all colors who benefit from stoking the fires of racial conflict to secure administrative jobs, charity management positions, academic jobs and advancement, or personal political entrepreneurship. Given the direction our history department appears to be taking far from any commitment to truth, we can regard ourselves as a formative training institution for this brand of snake-oil salespeople. Their activities are corrosive, demolishing any hope at harmonious racial coexistence in our nation and colonizing our political and institutional life. Many of their voices are unironically segregationist.

MLK would likely be called an Uncle Tom if he spoke on our campus today. We are training leaders who intend, explicitly, to destroy one of the only truly successful ethnically diverse societies in modern history. As the PRC, an ethnonationalist and aggressively racially chauvinist national polity with null immigration and no concept of jus solis increasingly presents itself as the global political alternative to the US, I ask you: Is this wise? Are we really doing the right thing?

As a final point, our university and department has made multiple statements celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd. Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors. And yet, the regents of UC and the historians of the UCB History department are celebrating this violent criminal, elevating his name to virtual sainthood. A man who hurt women. A man who hurt black women. With the full collaboration of the UCB history department, corporate America, most mainstream media outlets, and some of the wealthiest and most privileged opinion-shaping elites of the USA, he has become a culture hero, buried in a golden casket, his (recognized) family showered with gifts and praise.

Americans are being socially pressured into kneeling for this violent, abusive misogynist. A generation of black men are being coerced into identifying with George Floyd, the absolute worst specimen of our race and species. I’m ashamed of my department. I would say that I’m ashamed of both of you, but perhaps you agree with me, and are simply afraid, as I am, of the backlash of speaking the truth. It’s hard to know what kneeling means, when you have to kneel to keep your job.

It shouldn’t affect the strength of my argument above, but for the record, I write as a person of color. My family have been personally victimized by men like Floyd. We are aware of the condescending depredations of the Democrat party against our race. The humiliating assumption that we are too stupid to do STEM, that we need special help and lower requirements to get ahead in life, is richly familiar to us. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn’t be easier to deal with open fascists, who at least would be straightforward in calling me a subhuman, and who are unlikely to share my race.

The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating. No other group in America is systematically demoralized in this way by its alleged allies. A whole generation of black children are being taught that only by begging and weeping and screaming will they get handouts from guilt-ridden whites.

No message will more surely devastate their futures, especially if whites run out of guilt, or indeed if America runs out of whites. If this had been done to Japanese Americans, or Jewish Americans, or Chinese Americans, then Chinatown and Japantown would surely be no different to the roughest parts of Baltimore and East St. Louis today. The History department of UCB is now an integral institutional promulgator of a destructive and denigrating fallacy about the black race.

I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party’s uncontested capture of our department. I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic.

I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end. I also want to protect the practice of history. Cleo is no grovelling handmaiden to politicians and corporations. Like us, she is free.
 
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Liveleak - Judge Ain’t Having No Pity Party
Judge shuts down lawyer who tries to bring manipulative identity politics into the courtroom

"The word 'slave' literally originates with 'Slav', because so many Slavs were taken as slaves by North Africans and Ottomans.

Which is to say nothing of the overland African slave trade into the Muslim world, which started several hundred years before the importation of slaves into the New World and is estimated to have killed tens of millions.

Everyone forgets about this atrocity because there is no genetic trace of African slavery in the Ummah. That's because Africans were primarily enslaved for the sex trade, either as concubines or as harem guards. The children of the concubines were immediately killed, while the harem guards were gelded.

Contrast that with the treatment of African slaves in the American South. Literacy and Christianity were encouraged; many were given their freedom after some years of service; others were provided for in their old age; and the men were certainly not made into eunuchs, nor the children of the women murdered at birth. As to living and working conditions, these were no worse, and often much better, than those of the European peasant class.

That's not to defend slavery, which is of course always wrong, under any circumstances. It is simply to note that historical blood guilt is being laid upon one race (the majority of whose ancestors never owned slaves, while many of that race were slaves themselves), while other groups are given a free pass ... despite the brutality of other groups having been far worse. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it has quite literally ONLY been Christian Europeans who have put an end to slavery, in all of human history (once at the beginning of the Christian era, once by the British Empire, and once again in the American Civil War).

This is why it is absolutely essential to understand history."


only 16% of Americans approve of defunding the police (only 33% of blacks)
65% of Americans oppose the measure.
80% of Americans want to maintain or increase funding for the police.

Guess the propaganda failed. Democraps are stoopid.
Although Bernie opposes it also and wants to give police more money.
3.5 millions guns have been purchased over the last 60 days.
Looks like the silly Marxist agenda will fail.
 
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And democracy was built upon unimaginable injustice. True. What else do we have? Have you watch the world lately?

You know what, you're right here (yes - I'm agreeing with you.) I honestly don't know if there is any system that can ensure 100 percent equality without allowing a mechanism for the system to grow, such as with capitalism to begin with. Although I don't think one person alone can have the answer - it would need to be a group of people - I always think there is room for improvement. And remember, someone (or more) will always have issues with it - it's just inevitable with the vast amount of different people our society encompasses.
 
Entire Florida city's SWAT team resigns after police chief kneels with protesters

The Blaze said:
Officers of the Hallandale Beach Police Department were so angered by their chief kneeling to show solidarity with protesters that every member of the SWAT team resigned from those duties

The officers did not resign completely from the police force, and will stay on duty.

Those who resigned specifically cited City of Hallandale Beach Police Chief Sonia Quinones kneeling with protesters against racism, hatred, and intolerance as the reason for their startling act.

"The risk of carrying out our duties in this capacity is no longer acceptable to us and our families. The anguish and stress of knowing that what we may be lawfully called upon to do in today's political climate combined with the team's current situation and several recent local events, leave us in a position that is untenable," the officers said in their resignation letter.

Chief Quinones will meet with the officers who resigned on Monday in order to hear out their grievances.

The city said that they will continue to have SWAT services through mutual aid agreements with other cities.

Police agencies have responded to the outbreak of protests and rioting in different ways. While some have tried to maintain their distance from the goals of the protests, others have openly joined demonstrators.
 
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