Police Brutality Thread

[Zephyn]

No I meant if Chauvin goes to jail so should the other cops, Chauvin was doing his duty he was half the size of Floyd, and having to subdue this Black Giant while his partners stood by, I TOLD YOU I SUPPORT THE BLUE LINE AND ALWAYS WILL! Once they had him cuffed and in the police unit which they did, they should've sped him to the hospital being the EMS was taking for ever to get there.

What does being black have to do with it? Why not just a giant man? I can't even. You aren't making any kind of point making it clear you are overtly racist.

 

[Droppersneck]

Yeah. You know what is even worse than this? Educated people or institutions who know only too well the details but manipulate them to support a narrative.

I was going to post this yesterday, completed the post, but then thought fuck it and what's the point. But why the hell not. It's not like I have anything better to do this morning!

@Blueberry_87 is going to hate me for this one! Sorry! You know I mean well!



Right. The above is a link to Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. Now I don't know if that's in any way affiliated to Harvard University. But given the link I make the assumption that it is. And if not: it's an easy assumption to make mistakenly. Either way: easy to assume that it's credible research. Especially to the uninformed or those that look at headlines, have a quick look at the content, and then go shooting (no pun intended) their mouths off (whether it be on the Internet or a riot or whatever) (pick your poison).

Here's the headline (and, to be frank, until this fiasco all started, was exactly the impression that I was under):

"Black people more than three times as likely as white people to be killed during a police encounter".

Fair enough. If you read just a little bit further it goes on to say in certain AREAS this is true. Very short on detail on the link though.

Then, perplexingly, there's a link from the institutional site to none other than United Press International of all fucking places.

Study: Black Americans 3 times more likely to be killed by police - UPI.com

A four-year Harvard University analysis released Wednesday shows that black Americans were, on average, more than three times as likely as white people to be killed during a police encounter.

www.upi.com

And here's their headline:

"Study: Black Americans 3 times more likely to be killed by police".

Once again and fair enough: they give a little more detail. But for sure also go out of their way to emphasize the narrative.

Finally, and oddly enough, they have a link to the ACTUAL study:

Mapping fatal police violence across U.S. metropolitan areas: Overall rates and racial/ethnic inequities, 2013-2017

Background & methods Recent social movements have highlighted fatal police violence as an enduring public health problem in the United States. To solve it, the public requires basic information, such as understanding where rates of fatal police violence are particularly high, and for which...

journals.plos.org

Title of the study: "Mapping fatal police violence across U.S. metropolitan areas: Overall rates and racial/ethnic inequities, 2013-2017".

So now, finally, we get to the meat on the bone. And how many do you think would go to this trouble? Most people here, as but one example, don't even read the fucking thread before blasting away. I think it's therefore safe to assume that the majority of American's would bother to go this far. And certainly not those that are burning the house down.

And this high powered, complicated, and convoluted study shows what exactly? Well: it's obvious from the ACTUAL study that there are certain AREAS where the narrative holds true. But then they start getting too clever and try to extrapolate the data out in order to try and make their case and prove that in America, generally speaking, after much fudging and mathematical gymnastics, black people are 3 times for likely to be killed by law enforcement than white people.

Here's the bottom line and from the study itself:

"Of the included 5494 fatalities involving police from 2013–2017, 2353 ( 42.83% ) of the decedents were White, 1487 ( 27.07% ) were Black, 939 were Latinx ( 17.09% ), and 168 ( 3.06% ) were other race/ethnicities, while 547 lacked data on race/ethnicity. Nationally, from our first set of models, the annual rate of fatal police violence was 0.39 per 100,000 ( 95% Confidence Interval [CI] = 0.37,0.42 )."

Now you can stand on your head and whistle Yankee Doodle through your ass: those figures do NOT support the narrative being pushed by all and sundry.

To the study's credit: what it DOES prove is that in certain AREAS the socioeconomic conditions play a huge role. And of course: the sheer numbers of different race and ethnicities in certain AREAS plays a huge role. But it falls on it's backside, and makes shit, when they attempt to come up with a broad average for the entire country.

Point is: do you think your average [insert name of civil rights group] member, rioting in the streets, and suing the police, or baying for the blood of officers, is aware of such detail? Or if they'd even give a shit if they were? Nope. I don't think so.

Anyway. Have fun.

Oh and in closing for now:

Oh how quickly people forget. This comment in references made to New York earlier on the thread to the "Giuliani Era". Well unless it's the media (again): as far as I know New York had become a fucking war zone when Mayor Giuliani was appointed. And he sorted the shit out not? No tolerance for crime and the "broken windows" theory? MORE and better kitted out law enforcement officers were a part of the plan. As far as I remember: it worked not? (Oh sorry my bad,: it was the CIA's fault)!

There is hope, watch this based black guy shoa the BBCs false narrative. He’s also a former police officer. This is really great

 

[dalpat077]

I feel we have no choice but to let the right wingers take over the last few pages of this thread. I'm not going to keep arguing with them. Id move to one of those countries in a heartbeat, but they don't just accept any immigrant. Thankfully I also have an EU citizen ship but it takes many years and lots of money to claim my birth right citizenship and even then for eu citizen its not exactly the easiest to get the right to work and Healthcare in other parts especially if you don't know their language. For most usa people, unless they are seriously rich, they'd never be accepted.

To which countries would you move, given the opportunity and the means, if I may ask? The posts, on which the above post of yours is based, are a bit muddled. If I may though: in your case I'd not suggest Russia, China, North Korea, or South Africa (make that Sub-Saharan Africa for good measure). Not good fits. And if it's EU countries specifically: choose wisely i.e. ensure that there is at least one other EU country between your destination of choice and Russia's (current) borders.

 

[dalpat077]

Don't mind me again. Just having a smoke break!

“When I go to church, I sit on a hard bench … I don’t get bruising on my bottom.”

I was wondering about this since you posted it. Well what if you died while sitting in church on said hard bench? And even that is a poor example anyway i.e. I'm taking a flyer here and saying that in that instance blood would drain from your top half, due to gravity, once your ass was lifted off of the seat.

Hilarious as that may come across: I'm actually being serious. I don't have the answer. Just been bugging me (especially if you also take the below into account).

God knows how many pounds of force Chauvin was applying.

Good thinking there Batman. It was his knee was it not? In other words: force would be concentrated into a smaller area? One would expect to see SOMETHING not? Neck or shoulder i.e. it matters not. I've watched that video a few times in a crass attempt to see exactly where Mr. Floyd's body gave up the ghost (no pun intended). Maybe there wasn't enough time between that happening and Officer Chauvin removing his knee?

Fucked up as this may be: I've sat applying pressure to the back of my hand for five minutes now. Being alive (well I'm making that assumption anyway) the color returns soon enough. But what if I croaked while doing that and I was lying down?

And I don’t blame them, as laypeople, for relying on their testimony.

Nah. C'mon. We're laypeople here too (at least on the topic of autopsies) (I am anyway). Point is: look at some of the good and reasonable questions that have been asked by a few here. The only thing the jury didn't have was a preconceived notion as to what they were going to find Officer Chauvin guilty of. Not whether he was guilty or not. And which brings me to my next point below.

@dalpat077 said he should kill himself. Life as a former police officer has got to be hard in prison, but particularly a poster child for racism and police brutality. 10 years of being Chauvin in prison might be worse than death.

It'll probably come as no surprise to YOU that my suggestion based more on the symbolic value of the gesture. It'd give all the "everyone is equal and nobody should die" pundits something to chew on. That said: my bet is that it'd go down real smooth with them though (you'd just not get to hear about it). Not to mention the effect it'd have on a juror or two (that will forever beat themselves up wondering if they shouldn't maybe have asked the same good and reasonable questions as we have instead of going with the flow). And of course the psychological effect it would have on law enforcement (wouldn't want to be the next person who fails to comply or tries to resist arrest immediately after news of such event hitting the wires should it happen). And you'd even have these politicians toning down their rhetoric and bullshit for a while.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

These two posts are poignant and basically what I'm saying today now.

If nothing else, and while the system hasn't been changed, nor will be changed, as a result of the interactions here: from where I sit there's been a shift on both sides of the arguments. And I think everybody here has done a better job of analyzing and considering many different factors and coming a little bit closer to reality than that which is presented in the media and which is resulting in mob mentality in real life.

If they want war let’s go for it, you know who’ll win.

 

[dalpat077]

There is hope, watch this based black guy shoa the BBCs false narrative. He’s also a former police officer. This is really great

Fuck yeah. Thank you. Give that man a Bells!

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

It would depend on the surface area of the contact and the amount of pressure needed to cause oxygen loss sufficient for fatal deoxygenation, I would think. And also, as Floyd died, his blood flow stopped, so I’m not sure there was adequate time for visible bruising.
This is why, as a juror, I would look to the experts to explain it to me. And I don’t blame them, as laypeople, for relying on their testimony.

If I was one of the jurors I don’t care if my name or face was shown or televised, Chauvin would not have been convicted.

 

[dalpat077]

s/right wingers/racists/. The jury is still out on @birdup.snaildown. do you think @lordofthisworlds comment about it being a giant black man is racist (few posts above) or are all right wingers racist (at least with the BL sample of the population)

Sorry but I again have to interject. It's the very people that you seem to think are right wingers and racists that have been trying to prove, with great difficulty and much effort I might add, that there is no truth at all to law enforcement being inherently racist and that reality based on verifiable facts and figures tell a different story entirely.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

I feel we have no choice but to let the right wingers take over the last few pages of this thread. I'm not going to keep arguing with them. Id move to one of those countries in a heartbeat, but they don't just accept any immigrant. Thankfully I also have an EU citizen ship but it takes many years and lots of money to claim my birth right citizenship and even then for eu citizen its not exactly the easiest to get the right to work and Healthcare in other parts especially if you don't know their language. For most usa people, unless they are seriously rich, they'd never be accepted.

We will win and already have won, trust me.

 

[Zephyn]

Sorry but I again have to interject. It's the very people that you seem to think are right wingers and racists that have been trying to prove, with great difficulty and much effort I might add, that there is no truth at all to law enforcement being inherently racist and that reality based on verifiable facts and figures tell a different story entirely.

Making a poor point you might add by being clearly racist themselves. I might agree with the sentiment otherwise. As for other posts, I still have to read them to respond

 

[mal3volent]

If you guys can't keep this thread under control (no racist bullshit, stay on topic, etc) , we will have to close it for a while.

 

[steewith2ees]

If you guys can't keep this thread under control (no racist bullshit, stay on topic, etc) , we will have to close it for a while.

I am sorry if anything I have added has caused problems and will accept any moderation of my content as the forum volunteers see fit, but I continue to read in disbelief what to a 3rd party international observer are incredible amounts of bullshit, the result being that I am glad not to live in the US as far too many members and commentators in general insist that I deserve to die on the spot for being a drug user, unable to comply with three different and contradictory commands being screamed at me at the end of three gun points with the public having a mandatory responsibility to comply with an officers commands no matter how ridiculous or whether or not those commands, verbalised or imposed, injure or harm me in any way, the police being able to justify any amount of violence with the magic words 'resisting arrest'. I am sure and I hope that most communities have what are generally functional Police Depts. but I would be more conscious of the threat posed by them than I would travelling in any other country, where the Police while still being shit, generally do as little as is possible. We are taking about one instance of actual accountability, not justice, just basic accountability for a Police officer killing someone in broad and still extremely illuminating dusklight. I never and still do not believe that Chauvin intended to kill him as a result of his actions but while I never considered him a cold - blooded murderer I, from the outset, found him as the most egregious example of four Police officers who's arrogance and unwillingness to be seen accepting advice from a 9 year old made them feel obliged to put as much effort into doing the opposite of what was being suggested, persisting even after a pulse was lost because he had so little insight into his consistently aggressive and total disregard towards something close to if not considered subhuman.

One officer, that is all, so anyone still clutching their pearls at this stage need not worry, the killing will continue and as with most things no one will give a fuck come the second trial. But for those still on this thread insisting that Floyd did not even deserve a day in court while complaining how poorly Chauvin's went, well, these are the sort of people I will never be able to justify anything I say too. I am isolated and out of touch yes, I watched the trial, from jury selection to verdict, from a quarter of the way around the planet but despite what I thought I knew what mattered, despite the conviction, I am still just wrong by today's standards that insist I do not believe my lying eyes, ears or anything of general self evidence because fuck the maths, here is an anecdote so while we are on the topic, yes, I am just some stupid Brit who has no idea what he is talking about and although I do rely on a wide range of multimedia based sources for my news and current affairs my final exhibit is a recent clip from the heart of 'lamestream' media itself, old Mr Melber on 'MSDNC' or whatever.

The actual partisan stuff doesn't rile me up as much as it used to as the garbage coming from the 'alt-right' are just vile noises while a fucking useless Democrat party just sits there, unable to counter the bullshit at best while the old guard remain as complicit as ever behind the scenes. However, while I would not count on cable news for anything some channels seem to lie a lot less than others and Ari Melber, a competent enough anchor for Prime Time MSM and member of the NY State Bar (which means as an atty. at the very least he has a general and informed grasp of criminal justice issues) this segment contains nothing but important and undeniable truth bombs with respect to the general discussion here.

 

[cduggles]

just don't come on here preaching about socialism and how great it is.

Au contraire, just as others have been welcomed to preach the virtues of life in Russia or China and this or that form of government, one may most certainly extol the virtues of socialism. Here.

If I was one of the jurors I don’t care if my name or face was shown or televised, Chauvin would not have been convicted.

This comment has nothing discernible to do with my post. And I’m sure group dynamics that affect mere mortals would have nothing on you.

 

[Droppersneck]

The way the media doxxes and woke social media teams up with corporations to ‘cancel’ people, I don’t see high profile cases having fair judgements ever again tbh

 

[dalpat077]

 

[dalpat077]

 

[mal3volent]

@dalpat077 , you should post some context whoever you share videos. We generally don't allow video dumping in discussion threads.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

What does being black have to do with it?

Because he was Black if he were White, I’d call him the White Giant, no racism just calling it what it is, don’t call me a racist, cause I’m not, you’re just trying to label me for others to look at me that way, which is bullshit, you’re taking the easy way out.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

The jury is still out on @birdup.snaildown. do you think @lordofthisworlds comment about it being a giant black man is racist (few posts above) or are all right wingers racist (at least with the BL sample of the population)

1. No, I didn't read it as racist.
2. All right wing people aren't racist. That's crazy.

Men are more likely to attack me than women. As a result, I perceive the potential threat of men/women differently. I also perceive the potential threat of domestic cats differently to dogs.

Perhaps that is racist.

I find a lot of the anti-Chauvin stuff (from the left) on here racist. The assumption that he is racist - because he's a white cop - is racist. Now, I'm not saying that most contributors on the left are guilty of this. Just a few... But nobody is willing to engage in an honest deconstruction of this situation.

The logic presented is that black people are being shot disproportionately. I have mentioned at least three times now the fact that men are shot disproportionately. Perhaps you guys are avoiding this argument because you're afraid of engaging with racism... but, again, that is racist because (at the end of the day) white people end up being falsely accused of racism.

Priest wasn't being very sensitive with his Fentanyl Floyd comments, but I don't recall them being inherently racist. I'd have to look again. Same thing applies to dalpat's angel comments.

Men commit crimes disproportionately to women. Men are shot by police disproportionately. So is there systemic sexism? If not, why not?

George Floyd was a piece of shit. He was a thug and a terrible father. People defend him in the name of substance abuse, but that is no excuse when you have kids. The world is better off without him. There's nothing racist about any of that. If he was white, I'd feel exactly the same way.

 

[HatingThisLife]

Socialism=Communism it's just a softer term, plus you are dealing with different people in those countries you mentioned, if you love socialism so much why don't you move to one of those above mentioned countries, that is if your American, if not I could care a less where your from ot where you go, just don't come on here preaching about socialism and how great it is.

I would LOVE to move to one of those countries!!! Unfortunately I dont have the means and also Im pretty sure they dont really want us moving there (Americans). Thats pesky freedom of speech....Ill come on here preaching whatever I want. How about you dont come on here preaching your brainwashed conservative talking points. Literally no one in American politics is advocating for the type of socialism you are talking about (i.e. socialism that leads to communism which is authoritarian) which is evident due to the countries you referenced. Democratic socialism is COMPLETELY different, and our system already incorporates a ton of democratic socialist programs (i.e. medicaid. Medicare, social security, foodstamps, WIC, etc.) Try educating yourself instead of believing the right wing propaganda, lies and half truths. Hence why I said your comment was intellectually disingenuous or willfully ignorant. America is the ONLY developed country in the world that doesn't have universal healthcare but we have the best form of socialized medicine in the world. Medicaire has the highest rates of care and shortest wait times of any form of socialized medicine in the world.