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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Police Brutality Thread

After now having scrolled all the way back and reading the posts made since I pulled back from this a week ago: given what I now see I don't think there is any point or benefit to quoting certain posts and end up rehashing older arguments made.

But I do feel compelled to address two issues here (in closing and for now).

More than once on this thread: the moment narcotics have been brought into the equation there's been a kickback under the auspices of this being a harm reduction site and that the vast majority here are users or addicts and therefore the issue of narcotics is off limits. To be blunt: that's not doing anybody here any favors. And please believe me when I say that this out of concern i.e. it's certainly no skin off of my nose (possibly even counter intuitive on my part). But I think it needs to be said that being a user or an addict doesn't get you a free pass when it comes to law enforcement. And while some here feel that they're being targeted (and I'm just putting this out there): are you being targeted and unfairly treated because you're a user or an addict? Or are you being targeted and singled out because of your actions as a result of using. Only individuals can answer that for themselves. And I'm not trying to be contentious here at all. I'm just giving you food for thought. And while some may feel it's their right to use or abuse: that's all good and well. But that's not the country you live in. Not yet anyway. And even should the drug laws change: you will still have to take into account your actions and the effects of various substances. On this very thread and by their own admissions: there are individuals who would have done things differently were they not under the influence (or wouldn't have ended up in less than stellar situations in the first place). And even if every single substance on the planet was decriminalized or legalized: you'd still not have free reign when it comes to law enforcement and certain other laws.

The other issue:

I've seen views expressed here that border on blind hatred for, and a generalization of, law enforcement. Be careful with this is all. Because it could play a role in attitude and action if, for whatever reason, confronted by a law enforcement officer in the future. And you could well end up being just another statistic. In many of these cases: that's played a major role in the outcome. Attitude and mistakenly assuming certain rights. And while it stands to reason that there are a few law enforcement officers that abuse their powers or cross the line: they are not in the majority if my true belief. And as noble a notion as it may be that people should be able to police themselves and that law enforcement in its current form should be done away with: I put it to you that were people any good at policing themselves there wouldn't ever have been the need for law enforcement. No law enforcement agency was created or formed to provide employment. Such were created or formed because there was a need for them.

And that's about it. I don't expect to win the popular vote for the above. And probably will have arrows being fired my way soon enough. But I say the above out of concern for some pretty decent people that I've interacted with here in the past year. :) Sometimes certain things just need to be said. And, well, given that really and strictly speaking I'm an outsider here (possibly even the enemy): it may as well be me. And as unpalatable as all of the above may be to some: if it results in a user or addict taking pause and results in neither a user or addict or law enforcement officer ending up in the firing line (both literally and figuratively speaking) well then it's accomplished its purpose. In my ever so humble opinion of course.
 
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From defense testimony:
Blackwell [prosection] honed in on Fowler's [defense physician] testimony that no bruising or injuries were found on Floyd's neck or back. Fowler agreed that in the majority of cases in which someone dies of low oxygen, there are no "traumatic indications" of the cause of death, such as bruising. He agreed that whether or not someone suffered from positional asphyxia can be determined only through investigation, not by autopsy.

www.cbsnews.com

Derek Chauvin Trial 4/14/21: Defense expert found Floyd's manner of death to be undetermined, not homicide

Dr. David Fowler, a forensic pathologist, said he believes Floyd died of cardiac arrhythmia due to his heart disease.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
You might be right @cduggles. I've always said I lean towards Chauvin being guilty of manslaughter. As this discussion continues, I find myself no longer leaning - but, rather, firmly planted in manslaughter territory.

Briefly looking into "positional asphyxia", it seems as if cases of this are extremely rare with the police. Less than 2 cases per year... in a population of over a quarter billion. Again, this leads me to think Chauvin didn't intend to kill Floyd.

@dalpat077 said he should kill himself. Life as a former police officer has got to be hard in prison, but particularly a poster child for racism and police brutality. 10 years of being Chauvin in prison might be worse than death.

It's hard to say what kind of sentence he deserves, but I think a decade is too much.

Even when Chauvin gets out of jail, his life is fucked. If I was him, I'd move to another country. Find somewhere nobody knows anything about George Floyd. I certainly wouldn't spend any more time than necessary in the USA.
 
Xorkoth said:
I agree with this, the media is certainly choosing which cases to report on based on selling headlines. I think we can all agree that the media is exacerbating the toxic narrative in this country in all sorts of ways. I'm still glad that these incidents are being reported though, but I definitely think that ALL incidents of police misconduct should be reported on and talked about. Without going into the racial implications on way or the other, there is a serious problem with police brutality in this country and it needs to be addressed. For many people, that is the point of this whole thing. It is to me.

In general, the hyperfocus on race in nearly every aspect of cultural examination these days is muddying the waters, even when it is valid



That's not true, I have gotten caught by the police for drugs more than once and never has my life been ruined, each time I was given a chance. Of course there are some reasons why, I fit the sterotype that those cops had of someone they had sympathy for and wanted to see "turn my life around", rather than someone they wanted to put away as a menace to society.



Wait, I'm, honestly confused. Weren't you arguing passionately earlier in this thread for Chauvin and all of the cops there with him to be equally charged for murder, and saying that they gave good cops a bad name?



So you want there to be riots? Why would you want that?

Also his levels of fentanyl were lower than they use for anesthesia, not 3 times a lethal dose:

"The estimated lethal dose of fentanyl in humans is 2 mg. The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml."
source: https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/fentanyl_en#:~:text=The estimated lethal dose of,poly-substance use was involved.

Floyd's level was tested at 11 ng/mL. This is a little over half the maximum amount for anesthesia, and in an addicted/tolerant person, particularly, would be far from lethal. I'm sure there are numerous BL posters posting in BDD/OD right now with higher levels than that going on.
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Yup I want riots and for cops to be further demoralized ideally. The sooner things collapse the sooner we can have real change.
I’m not in the know as much as you are, but I thought fentanyl was measured in micrograms. His overall health was pretty insanely bad, and the cocktail of drugs coupled with those health issues is likely why he was complaining about not being able to breath before anyone touched him imo
 
Dropperneck said:
Yup I want riots and for cops to be further demoralized ideally. The sooner things collapse the sooner we can have real change.
I’m not in the know as much as you are, but I thought fentanyl was measured in micrograms. His overall health was pretty insanely bad, and the cocktail of drugs coupled with those health issues is likely why he was complaining about not being able to breath before anyone touched him imo
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You know, the history of democratic pluralism is generally one of gradual but continual improvement in human flourishing and material wellbeing whereas the history of total revolution is generally one of mass murder followed by a decline in just about every kind of freedom (positive and negative).

I’d be interested in why you think bringing on the latter course is best for Americans rather than getting back to former?
 
dalpat077 said:
dalpat077 said:
You think? I can see this working really well. A dude, either drunk out of his mind or high as a kite, gets pulled over, taken out of the vehicle, somehow manages to break free, gets back into his vehicle, and drives away. Police officers open fire and he ends up dead. Excessive force you may say?

Same dude above and same situation: police officers say oh well, next time, and the dude careens into another car while making his getaway and kills innocent people. I can see the headlines now already!



If only it were that simple in Mr. Floyd's case.


Anyways. Need to take a break. So I'll leave you (and the thread) in peace until tomorrow! :)
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dalpat077 said:
Good morning all.

Well. There sure does seem to be a distinct turnaround on this thread overnight. Seems like it's all coming together nice and the whole shit show is starting to show some signs of it being worth the trouble. Nice. (And no I'm not being sarcastic). Some good coming out of this now. If only here.

Obviously I'd like to continue a little more here (not to upset the apple cart or the delicate balance but there are still some things bothering me and I hope they're worth something to the discussion).

First things first:

You realize that Officer Chauvin has been put on suicide watch? Personal opinion: best thing he could do. In much the same way as the Japanese fall of their swords. And that will set the cat among the pigeons for sure. This aside from the fact that life, as he knew it anyway, is over. It'll give some people pause (maybe even some in high places).

I'll let that sink in with your dinner (or in some cases your breakfast) while I get to my next point!
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Good morning. All US citizens convicted of murder are put on suicide watch their first 30 days in custody. Ghislaline Maxwell ( jeffrey epsteins cohort) is STILL on suicide watch 9 months in and she hasn't even gone to trial yet. Chauvin won't off himself. His demeanor is too macho and he thinks too highly of himself.

I don't think his life is over. Sentence could be as little as 12 years and if he is a good boy, who knows? US convicts have done far less time for far worse crimes. US justice system has always been a bit off.

I know the prosecution wants an aggravated sentence but the Judge has the final say. His PSI is fairly clean and if Nelson couldn't get his point across during the trial he has 8 weeks to see if he can do better.

I believe Chauvin was guilty of 3rd and Manslaughter. Don't wanna argue why not 2nd. A 20 year sentence and out in 12 would be about the norm for this crime.

Once the dust settles we can all argue about the next 3 that are coming up to bat. Of course they will get the chance to plea, whereas Chauvin did not.
 
hydroazuanacaine said:
this might be the most batshit crazy thing i’ve read on bluelight. we are the criminal. the police are not making your drug buy safe. sounds like you’d be in for a hell of a surprise if they catch you.
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I never said they are going to make your drug buy safe, again my words are being misconstrued, I said and meant without the police, those drug dealers you buy your drugs from would invade your nice little neighborhood you live in and have to leave to go buy your drugs in their neighborhood, and should something happen while you're buying your drugs, like let's say you get jumped and robbed and beaten or even raped, who would you go to without there being any police officers, to your grave?
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
In the USA, both major parties are the same, want to stay in power, and have each other's interests at heart and deep down support each other.
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Agreed, but to me Trump was different and it's why many Republicans or RINOS, tried getting him ousted and fought him, in including his right hand man Pence at the end, who turned his back on him, but yes most are all the same like that piece of shit Bush Jr. who is now fraternizing with the Obamanations.

I voted for that scumbag and his father, after this election I will probably never vote again, unless of course Trump or one of his Allies run.
 
Atelier3 said:
You know, the history of democratic pluralism is generally one of gradual but continual improvement in human flourishing and material wellbeing whereas the history of total revolution is generally one of mass murder followed by a decline in just about every kind of freedom (positive and negative).

I’d be interested in why you think bringing on the latter course is best for Americans rather than getting back to former?
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We don’t have a fair system and the three war castles and the banking cabal must be stopped completely. Our republic has been null and void for a long time. A refresh is needed, I wasn’t aware of how bad things were till the past election and reading about how central banking/imf work to manipulate economies/society. It’s pretty scary all around. Mark Twain was right about voting, which was the final nail.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Stop and Frisk was no big deal. You were not bothered unless you were or looked like a thug, and as long as you were not super fucked up, holding drugs, selling them, etc. it is no big deal.
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"At the height of stop-and-frisk in 2011 under the Bloomberg administration, over 685,000 people were stopped. Nearly 9 out of 10 stopped-and-frisked New Yorkers have been completely innocent."

www.nyclu.org

Stop-and-Frisk Data

The NYPD has conducted millions of stop-and-frisks in New York City over the last two decades. The majority of those stopped are people of color, and a vastly disproportionate number are Black. There is no evidence that ramping up stops makes New Yorkers safer. But we do know that many of these...
www.nyclu.org www.nyclu.org
 
birdup.snaildown said:
@dalpat077

Chauvin wouldn't have put his knee on a 90 year old woman's neck. He looked at Floyd and made certain assumptions. There was no reason to restrain him like that. Chauvin isn't qualified to diagnose medical conditions. Therefore, police should apply restraint in a way that doesn't kill people who have health problems.

Having health problems doesn't sensibly mean that you are exempt from police brutality; police brutality shouldn't occur.

I'm somewhat in the middle on this whole thing, but I'm not at all confused about whether or not what Chauvin did was wrong. I don't think it was murder. I also agree that the drugs and his health were most likely contributing factors... but what does that really mean?

Unhealthy people don't deserve to die (by police using excessive force) any more than healthy people deserve to die.

If you get into a fight with someone who has stage 4 cancer (and you don't know that they have cancer) it doesn't make any difference if you accidentally kill them by beating the living shit out of them. It's still murder.

I think Floyd is a piece of shit and I'm happy to admit that I don't care (at all) that he's dead... but that doesn't change reality. There was no reason to keep restraining him like that for so long, particularly when he was saying he couldn't breathe... and even more so after he passed out.

He deserves the manslaughter charge, but the sentence (for manslaughter) is too harsh.
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The 5-0 be knowin' dat George Floyd was violent, crazy, out of control and those polices be acting according to how you do with a violent criminal who be resistin' arrest or help from EMS while he be on fentanyl/opioid drugs, an' METH!
 
Burnt Offerings said:
"At the height of stop-and-frisk in 2011 under the Bloomberg administration, over 685,000 people were stopped. Nearly 9 out of 10 stopped-and-frisked New Yorkers have been completely innocent."

www.nyclu.org

Stop-and-Frisk Data

The NYPD has conducted millions of stop-and-frisks in New York City over the last two decades. The majority of those stopped are people of color, and a vastly disproportionate number are Black. There is no evidence that ramping up stops makes New Yorkers safer. But we do know that many of these...
www.nyclu.org www.nyclu.org
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I was in NYC both long before and during the peak of stop and frisk. It never happened to me or any of my friends, associates, co-workers, etc. not even when we would walk around the city all fucked up day and night.
 
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