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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

PMA - more info?

I agree with the Raidens and there were some brown dome pills around perth a while back that exhibited similar effects. My sister had a raiden and was very hot, had a really bad headache, couldn't move, was generally feeling very very ill. Her pulse was OK. I had to look after her the whole night and she kept throwing up every 20 mins or so. and on a separate occation I and my friends had one of those brown dome pills. They all felt like their heads were about to explode. Same effects as above. Everyone threw up once. We were floored for ages. I was the only one that didn't get the headaches. We ended up flushing the rest of the pills down the toilet.
I am defintely of the opinion that these pills were PMA. I have heard multiple stories of Raidens having these effects.
DB
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Doesn't "expecting the unexpected" make the unexpected expected?
 
this was posted in the new to xtc faq by drug dustbin
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002482.html
In _in vitro_ tests MDA seems to be slightly more potent in inducing release of serotonin than PMA. And it's really hard to say how much MAO inhibition by PMA will affect to its toxicity. According to Green et al. the high level of MAO inhibition is maintained only for a short time and the extent of inhibition declines rapidly after 1 h.
Serotonin syndrome with PMA is not the only problem associated with its use. PMA has also appreciable cardiovascular effects. This is probably due to release of norepinephrine and/or inhibition of its metabolism. Both MDA and PMA rises blood pressure and heart rate significantly in cats (they are nearly equipotent in this). According to Shulgin in PIHKAL, it seems that PMA has greater body load in humans than MDA. In mice, determination of 6 hr LD50's indicated PMA to be most toxic although 24 hr LD50's showed nearly equal toxicity with MDA.
References:
Nichols DE, Ilhan M, Long JP
Comparison of cardiovascular, hyperthermic, and toxic effects of
para-methoxyamphetamine (PMA) and 3, 4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA).
Arch Int Pharmacodyn Ther 1975, 214(1):133-40 (abstract only)
Nichols DE, Lloyd DH, Hoffman AJ, Nichols MB, Yim GK.
Effects of certain hallucinogenic amphetamine analogues on the release of
[3H]serotonin from rat brain synaptosomes.
J Med Chem. 1982, 25(5):530-5.
Green AL, El Hait MAS.
p-Methoxyamphetamine, a potent reversible inhibitor
of type-A monoamine oxidase in vitro and in vivo.
J Pharm Pharmacol 1980, 32:262-266
Click to expand...
 
Thanx for that E Bee, i was stumped as to what the hell was in those... they were my first eva 'bad' pill.
take care guys!!!
 
as I said, the raidens I had tested green and had all the effects of 2CB, so they weren't PMA.
The raidens were small, beige and domed, and were also being sold as "beige domes" at the time (sep '99 - feb '00). They were smooth on the top with rough edges and looked like this:
side.jpg

I think the headache and vomitting is a bad reaction that a hell of a lot of people seem to have to 2CB. I am very sensitive to most drugs, but these pills were the best I've ever had...like eeing but not loved up, and the most intense and enjoyable hallucinations I've ever had (when combined with mdma).
A few of my friends got sick from them, the rest didn't get sick but thought they were just like an average pill, with no visuals (even when combined with mdma).
Its another prime example of how different people can have completely different reactions to the same drug, which reinforces the need to test, test, test, and not rely on anecdotal evidence.
There seems to be way too many fingers being pointed to certain drugs atm...you only have to look on www.pillreports.com and see how many "trippy" pills are being labeled as K, and how many bunk pills are being blamed on PMA.
I just did a quick search in the US section and found an example straight away. 2 double stacked white mitsis: one tested purple, one green. Both were reported by the users as being PMA...how can the one drug have 2 totally different marquis results? (and as jb said, its 90% sure PMA would have no reaction)
More importantly...why the hell are these people bothering to test their pills when they haven't got a clue how to interpret the results (or simply don't care)?
The guy who's mitsi tested green still took the pill, even though he thought that a green reaction could mean PMA and even after all the bad publicity white mitsis have after the PMA death in the US a short while ago.
I think PMA should be recognised as a real danger, something to be avoided. The way its going now, people are likely to just get confused about it and maybe even curious.
I've seen a few posts where people have claimed to have had a PMA pill and had the time of their life, when they cannot be sure it was actually PMA.
An acquaintence of mine once told me that he "loved" PMA because he'd had a great night after taking a pill that he assumed was PMA (simply because it was a different and trippier feeling than usual).
The pill he had was actually one of the raidens I mentioned above: 2CB.
Anyway, I'll stop rambling now...and get to the point:
- don't assume that because a pill is bunk that its the currently hyped-up undesirable substance
- if you don't know for sure what is in the pill, just state the marquis reaction and list the effects instead of claiming it to be the current hyped-up undesirable substance
- if it doesn't test purple/black, don't buy/take it.
- take the time to research not just the drug you intend to take, but also the many substances that could be sold as that drug.
Basically: know the risk, be informed, inform others (correctly), and don't play russian roulette with pills...and remember how fucking enjoyable quality pills can be
smile.gif

[This message has been edited by E Bee (edited 22 June 2000).]
 
http://ravesafequeensland.com/4MTA.htm
Do we know how prevalent 4-MTA is here in Australia and whether it has been tested and what results it would give. Just curios?
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly
 
As Candyflip pointed out in another thread, given the possibility of a flood of MDMA wannabe's - particularly given the Olympics, this probably deserves a bit of a nudge.
 
originally posted by Chemical Generation in the closed thread http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000952.html?reload=37
To give you some insight into the chemistry behind my call on the PMA colour:
The issue of PMA not responding positively to Marquis is interesting (well, I thought so!). Remember above that I spoke of the Marquis reagents response moving to the red end of the visible spectrum as the ratio of Carbon/Hydrogen to Oxygen rises. Remember also that Speed is at the red end of the spectrum, which is also what I will call the 'weak' end of the spectrum. ie: Not much around to cause a colour reaction. Note that PMA is fairly similar in structure to Speed, so it is also, at best, going to be at the weak end of the spectrum. Now consider that there's no methyl group on the nitrogen for PMA (METhamphetmamine is Speed, para-methoxyamphetamine is PMA), and that the methoxy group is on the opposite site of the aromatic ring, and relatively easily cleaved off with concentrated sulphuric acid. From all of this chemistry I summise it's not likely to give a strong reaction to Marquis, if at all. My references say it doesn't react except to give effecvescence, which is interesting in itself. Effervescence in a pill can be due to the sulphuric acid reacting with calcium carbonate to give carbon dioxide gas. People also press pills with magnesium oxide, which doesn't do that gas prodcution thing, so it's hard to draw a conclusion about that side of it.
Click to expand...
 
New fatal imported drug hits nightclubs
Henry Pierson Curtis
of The Sentinel Staff
Published in The Orlando Sentinel on September 28, 2000
Able to poach a victim`s brain like an egg, a new drug being sold on Central Florida`s nightclub scene has set off a statewide alert after being tied to six deaths.
The pills burn out users` central nervous systems by raising body temperatures to as
high as 108 degrees, Orange-Osceola Medical Examiner Dr. Shashi Gore said Wednesday.
Costing as little as $10, each dose is white, slightly larger than an aspirin and is
stamped with three diamonds in the shape of a Mitsubishi logo. The pills, which have no
connection with the Japanese company, apparently came from illegal labs in Germany and Denmark. They appeared in the United States last spring and caused the deaths of three young people in the Chicago area, according to drug agents.
Paramethoxyamphetamine, or PMA, is the latest in a series of illegal drug-related health threats in greater Orlando that began with crack cocaine in the mid-1980s and continued with heroin, Ecstasy and GHB in the 1990s. The so-called Mitsubishi pills contain a mixture of Ecstasy and PMA, said Gore and drug agents.
Authorities do not know when the pills first arrived in Central Florida, but the drug was first detected in July after Wuesthoff Reference Laboratories in Melbourne ran
comprehensive drug screens on a suspected Ecstasy overdose victim. On Tuesday, the federal Drug Enforcement Administration issued a warning that routine drug screens would not detect PMA.
The Wuesthoff tests showed that five of seven Ecstasy-related deaths in Orange and Osceola counties this year involved PMA. Two of those five deaths came during a triple overdose Labor Day weekend. Two young men died after being ejected from a Lee Road nightclub. The third survived.
"I only go to the press when it`s really important," Gore said in announcing the health threat. "I feel so bad seeing these young people dying."
In addition to those five victims, a woman who died in Lake County may have bought the
drug in Orlando. PMA in her blood was found by a laboratory in Gainesville.
A Wuesthoff supervisor said there have been no other confirmed PMA deaths in Florida.
A spokeswoman for the Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner`s Office said recent overdoses likely would be reviewed. The decision was made Tuesday after the state Medical Examiners Commission issued a statewide alert on the deaths in Orlando.
Nothing about the taste or initial euphoria from taking a diamond pill alerts drug
users they may be on the verge of a fatal experience. According to the Journal of Analytical Toxicology, PMA shares hallucinogenic qualities with mescaline and Ecstasy. The first sign of impending death is a soaring temperature. Stupor can follow within an hour. By then, widespread bleeding of the brain and internal organs may have begun. Prompt emergency medical care does not guarantee survival, according to records of cases in Britain, Canada and a series of 10 deaths in Australia.
In two Orlando deaths, drug agents said, the victims were found twisting and flipping on the floor like fish out of water.
All of the local PMA victims consumed more than one drug, which is typical of overdose
victims associated with the nightclub and rave scene, Gore said. The other drugs included alcohol, Valium and marijuana. It`s possible the combinations and taking more than one dose contributed to their deaths, he said.
There is no known safe dose for PMA.
Heroin remains the primary killer of Central Florida drug users. There have been 20 confirmed heroin-related deaths this year in Orange and Osceola counties. Thirty-two more
overdose deaths include at least two from GHB, five from PMA mixed with Ecstasy and two
from Ecstasy, according to the Medical Examiner`s Office.
Posted Sep 27 2000 11:10PM
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/automagic/news/2000-09-28/ASECDRUGS28092800.html
Click to expand...
hmmm a few mistakes here. who can spot them?
 
My ex gf had a pma pill on nye. She had half, 3 hours later nothing. She had the other half then a little later BANG. The most intense (really good way) feeling she's ever had, loved every second of it. That lasted for a while, i don't know how long. Then she started freaking out seeing dead people flying in the air and all sorts of other terrible things. Her arms and legs went cold and she lost feeling in them. Jaw clenching in a big way. This persisted for about 12 hours. I have never seen anyone in more mental pain in my life, terrifying fear, incredible sadness, extreme paranoia.
She was in the 2 opposite ends of the scale.
 
is PMA dangerous with anything other than MDxx?
This w/e a friend was coming down with a few hours still to go of GC. I refused to give him anything out of my stash of LSD or more likely AMT trip, MDMA pill, amphet... cos I wasn't sure. I'm guessing acid would have been ok, but not so enjoyable, but I didn't know if amphetamines would have been ok
So for next time he eats a pill that tests no reaction, apart from a slap, what else can he be given?
 
acid_reign are you sure that was a pma pill that she took? it sounds more long lasting and more hallucinogenic than pma (i know its an hallucinogen but there's degrees and type of hallucination).
ive been reading this stuff on pma and 4mta and there is some scary shit out there.
now i have to go research "dom" also known as stp? we got a pill that is supposed to contain it on the w/end but i'm not taking it till i know what it is!
i think the fake yin-yang asym and i had only a quarter of each *may* have been pma. check my thread on it, if interested. i dont know tho, its hard to tell on such a small amt. sucked a tonne tho. i was holding the remaining 1 1/2 incase the availability of a spectro test ever came up, but asym flushed it esp after my brother started asking bout it...
stay safe ppl
smile.gif
 
I'm not sure it was pma but it seemed to be that way. She had a 69 (first mistake :p) she didn't even check the colour. From what i was told there were 3 types out then, one speed, one mdxx and one pma. I suppose i can't be %100 sure of this info though. Now that i think about it i just got carried away when i said 12 hours. She had her first half at about 11 and it took 3-4 hours till she felt anything. Then by about 12 (I can't be sure about times, my brain had just endured nye)the next day she got out of her crazy "Please! Kill me!!" way of thinking but felt incredibly sick for the rest of the day and didn't completely recover for about 4 days.
Um so the duration may have been shorter than i previously said.
Does anything else make your arms and legs like ice?
 
this warning is now at the eve-rave site:
please forgive the trippy babelfish translation from the original german...
important to note is the second pill described at the bottom of this article. it contains PMA, PMMA and small quantities of Amphetamin(e) or Ephedrin(e)
this pill would have given an "orange" test result.
[quote}
Pill warning - updates 01.12.2000
PMA pills with death sequence
So far in Denmark, Norway and Austria pills with the Mitsubishi Logo had emerged, the PMA (Para Methoxy Amphetamin, 4-Methoxy-Amphetamin (4-MA) or 4-Methoxy-Alpha-Methyl-Phenethylamine) had contained. The pills are sold as " Ecstasy pills ". It came here to at least 3 deaths.
Now according to police specification also in Rhine country Pfalz a young woman at the consequences of PMA died, Mitkonsumenten reports on strong impairments in consequence of the income of the PMA pills. Recently in Rhine country Pfalz PMA pills were guaranteed. According to report of the Koblenz and the state criminal police agency in Mainz determinations resulted in police headquarters that by the income of such a pill with PMA as contents material a 18-jaehrigen woman came into Wittlich at the beginning of November to death. Over the pill emerged again it is only admits made that the Logo illustrates a Elephanten. Whether further factors or other chemical contents materials for the death of the woman (is mit)verantwortlich, is so far unsettled and is still examined.
The LKA Rhine country Pfalz points out that also in others than Ecstasy sold pills PMA can be contained. From reliable reports from Austria and Rhine country Pfalz we know that still further PMA pills are in the circulation. With the reason, consumers would obtain the publication of exact data to pills a false safety feeling (in other pills was no dangerous material) lean the Federal Criminal Investigation Office (BKA) however further categorically off it to give exact data (feature/parameters) of the dangerous pills well-known.
In a press release of the LKA Rhine country Pfalz this reads itself like-followed: " on the part of the state criminal police agency however it is pointed out that Ecstasy tablets are provided with different motives usually and are manufactured in the most different illegal drug laboratories.
In a press release of the LKA Rhine country Pfalz this reads itself like-followed: " on the part of the state criminal police agency however it is pointed out that Ecstasy tablets are provided with different motives usually and are manufactured in the most different illegal drug laboratories. Therefore cannot be closed on the basis a specific Logos on the contents materials.
For the consumers the income of Ecstasy thereby equals a type ' Russian roulett '. "
In our eyes with the attitude to publish no exact data to dangerous pills held back important realizations in the sense of the consumer protection to the health protection. Health damage (up to the death sequence) is taken with this attitude, which does not differentiate between objective endangerment and non-standard Risikomangement of the consumers, in purchase. It is again pointed out here that Drug Checking (onsite testing)und a fast early recognition system (monitoring), if this were legally possible, here effective health protection to promote could. As long as this possibility for the health protection is not given, we fall back to conventional prevention possibilities. In cathedrals we will execute warning campaign " with support of the scene initiative Eve & Rave cathedral on weekend in the local clubs " to PMA.
For this following information serves: To approx. 50 mg PMA works stimulating and causes easy visual perception modifications (" Optics").Bei of a dosage of 60 - 80 mg PMA can become extremely dangerous. The effect resembles then first a strong alcohol intoxication, without psychedelische effects. It knows after income of this quantity to a fatal, sudden strong rise of blood and koerpertemperatur (fever) as well as the blood pressure to come. Muscle twitching, extremely increased pulse, difficult respiration, nausea and vomiting occur. It can come to twitching, coma and death sequence.
" Mitursaechlich for the special danger of tablets with the substance PMA is first the not noticeable of consumers, is late using effect. This can finally lead with it to income of a larger dose and to the poisoning with PMA. " Pure PMA is a white, beige, pinkes or yellowish powder. PMA is however mostly pressed in pill form and found in pills, which are sold as " Ecstasy ".
Because PMA already in smaller quantities than MDMA works, apparently thus more to take would be around an effect to be obtained and thus to be taken, a dangerous overdosing can occur many pills easily. If health problems emerge, which can be brought in connection with an PMA income, first assistance carries out, calls immediately the emergency surgeon (Tel. 112) and clears it up over this connection. Logo: Mitsubishi form: without break groove colour: Beige diameters: 7 mm New PMA pills in Austria also of ChEck iT! became to 17.09.2000 Mitsubishi with ever zirka 40mg Paramethoxyamphetamin (PMA)und on 07.10. a further pill with the name " E ", red in the Viennese Budocenter 3, analyzed. At the consequences from alleged Ecstasy tablets in Austria only few weeks ago a 17jaehriger of young people at the consequences of PMA died.
Name: Red Mitsubishi
Logo: Mitsubishi
colour: outside dark red speckled, inside bright
break groove: none
outlined: circularly
form: cylindrically
weight: 230mg
diameter: 7mm
thickness: 5mm
contents material: approx. 40mg PMA
Name: ' E '
bought as: Ecstasy
coinage: a very deeply coined/shaped ' E ' break groove: no break groove
outlined: approximately
form: cylindrically, tapered edges diameters: 7mm
thickness: 5mm
weight: 220mg
consistency: broeckelig
colour: know
contents materials: 20mg Paramethoxyamphetamin (PMA) 40mg Paramethoxymethamphetamin (PMMA) small quantities of Amphetamin or Ephedrin
Source:
www.drogen online.de
[/quote]
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"i think i'll stick to drugs to get me thru the long, dark night of late-capitalism..."
Irvine Welsh
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 13 December 2000).]
 
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