• REAGENT TESTING & DRUG CHECKING Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Featured Link 1 Featured Link 2
  • RT&DC Moderators: Senior Staff

PMA (important!)

sorry if i'm stickin on the wrong point here, but i'm focused on the fact that there are no true on-site ways of knowing if your pill is straight mdxx or if it is partial mdxx hiding pma. someone mentioned that pma does trigger seratonin release, so you might think you're rolling, and someone else mentioned that the deceptive pills contain such a small amount of mdxx that one could tell that it wasn't legit.
so the way i see it, the commercial kits can't tell if it's tainted, the USER might not be able to tell if it's tainted. bad news... any suggestions?
also, just for general knowledge, if one does come across one of these pills and takes it accidentally, any suggestions on how to handle a pma trip??
 
Has PMA got a good high? I know how it shoots you're blood pressure through the roof but how does it compare to regular amphetamine? I have read that it is alot shorter in duration also, lasting only 4 hours. Roaches, those comments you made above are of no value. Who is going to do do an acid base extraction on a pill just to check its mp?
 
Re the melting point method:
If you isolated the salts present in a tablet (which is easy)
Click to expand...
Easy as in easy, or easy as in "simple process if you've already got lab equipment"?
Re how PMA gets in there:
It's also possible safrole is getting tossed around on the grey market *cut* with anise oil. End result is mdma + pma.
Click to expand...
I think this would have to be either sassafras oil cut with anise oil (I have no idea if there's grey-market sassafras oil, but I don't see there's a real need - you can buy the stuff in liters and liters from essential oil suppliers), or safrole cut with "anisole" (i don't know what the corresponding chemical is), and I don't know if that would pass inspection (i.e., would it be an obvious adulteration - I realize that some chemists might not care).
Is the anise oil --> PMA synthesis otherwise exactly the same as a sassafras oil --> MDMA synthesis? Because (if my brain's working) that's the only way you'd get both PMA and MDMA out of a single synthesis performed on a mixture of the two...
------------------
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. (P.J. O'Rourke)
 
pma is to mda what pmma is to mdma, but they are the exact same process to get to each starting from the propenylbenzene. And certain reactions to get the ketone it doesn't matter wether it's the propenylbenzene or the allybenzene.
Sassafras oil typically needs to be distilled before it can be used. If it was "cut" the anethole would distill off at a different temp, which would be easy to see, unless it was really high vacum or in a rotovap. If safrole was cut and some reaction was done to get the ketone the two ketones would probally have close to the same boiling points, and they would have to be distilled off under decent vacum so it wouldn't be quite as clear that there were two substances, scince they would be more likely to come off over a continous tempeture and appeared to be the typical ketone color.
 
actually anisole is just methoxybenzene.
the precursor is anethole, which is 1-(p-methoxyphenyl)-2-propene. exactly analogous to safrole.
safrole is more dense than anethole (1.098 vs 0.988) and has a much higher boiling point (232 vs 80). the two are probably miscible but a mixture could be easily identified by determining its specific gravity (and probably smell, although anise smells like licorice too), and more importantly, easily separated by distillation.
the synthesis for PMA and MDMA is the same, but there are different materials. performing the MDMA synthesis on anethole yields PMMA, which confusingly a lot of people seem to be calling PMA. (PMA = p-hydroxyamphetamine, PMMA = p-hydroxyMETHamphetamine). synthesizing PMA is easier than PMMA because it doesn't need methylamine, but if people are really doing the synthesis on a mixture, they will get MDMA/PMMA.
ronald: PMA is probably not all that fun, it's mostly physical and that's why it's dangerous. it's probably discernible from an MDMA trip; even if it does release serotonin, it probably doesn't feel very similar.
on my comments being useless: no, MP is not the best way, but it will work here. you can do a microscale acid-base extraction in maybe 10-15 minutes, and a melting point takes maybe 5. it's not as fast as adding a drop of liquid, but it's faster than TLC for what it's worth, and very easy. if it was the only way you had, it would work.
thinking like a crackhead on this, it doesn't waste a pill, so it might be worth doing if you either have a lot or like shooting it up.
dealing with pma: hyperthermia can be treated; so can overdose. what you should do depends on your situation. even if you just ate 5 pills and they're pma, you should be ok if you seek treatment *quickly*. if it's only one, you might be ok anyway.. follow the usual MDMA precautions (cool area, lots of water), but *do not* dance.
TLC: Rf value plus Mandelin (NOT Marquis) reagent visualization is probably the best way to confirm. Rf values need to be calculated with the same solvents, so you'd need to find out what solvent to use. you have to measure very carefully and do the procedure correctly to get a good Rf. and some statistical analysis if you wanna be really sure=)
solvents: one abstract i found mentioned diethylamine, another used methanol/acetone, and acetic acid/ethyl acetate will probably work too. the methanol/acetone one was interesting because both are easily available but i think they were using napthoquinone derivatives.
relative polarity of MDMA, PMA and PMMA
this is important for TLC...
these are the polarities of MDMA, PMA and PMMA as determined by Crippen's fragmentation method (in chemdraw 6.0)..
octanol-water partition coefficients *for the free base*, log K_ow:
MDMA: 1.98±0.47
PMMA: 2.07±0.47
PMA: 1.55±0.47
literature value for PMA: 1.770 at pH 7
this is a big difference; remember it's a logarithmic scale. so TLC should separate them easily. likewise ephedrine, likewise methamphetamine.
 
the precursor is anethole, which is 1-(p-methoxyphenyl)-2-propene. exactly analogous to safrole.
Click to expand...
I know how freaking nit-picky you like to be about details so I should point out that, like I said in the previous post, safrole is the allybenzene and anethole is exactly analogous to isosafrole. And safrole boils at 232 vs. 235, not something that could be easily seperated by distillation. You must have entered something in wrong when you looked it up...
Not all TLC takes a while, it can be done in 5 mins. You odn't have to do much of an extraction to get a sample for TLC, just a small sample of solvent that has the freebase in it. It may be possible to do TLC on the salt disolved in a solvent mix, so no extraction.
 
yeah, the boiling point for anethole is 234-237°. they gave it at reduced pressure. i hate the merck index for stuff like that.
and i said it was analogous to safrole when it's really analogous to isosafrole. and you spelled allylbenzene wrong, twice, and you stated the boiling point of an oil as a single number.
ya know what, people...
i hate e.
i have always hated e.
this is singlehandedly the most fuckedup drug in history.
they sell it in cute little colored pills so no one can tell what's in them, then mix it with chemicals that will kill people so it gets around a test kit. not to mention it's undoubtedly neurotoxic for very specific reasons that no other drug *including ones that have the same effect* has...
i'm not going to argue over the boiling point of anethole here. im defending everything i say again; (how many of you are candy ravers? they always did that to me) and i don't like it.
 
And I guess something like 3 years ago there were some self-experimentation reports on the hive from people who had made their own pma. They described it like being on a roller coaster stomach effects, speedy, long lasting and they didn't decribe it as being all that unpleasant. But they were careful with the dose and monitored their blood pressure. In anycase much different then what the harm reduction and drug-info groups describe the effects. This was before all the stuff about pma pills. The problem is if you don't accurately describe the effects of a low dose, which someone might find pleasent and enjoy, they may not realize it's actually pma because they read from a trusted source that pma is this god awful trip, so they then pop a few more...
I don't think there would have been as many deaths in canada in the late 70's when it first appeared not in pill but powder form if it wasn't at least somewhat pleasent in low doses.
 
hehe...
yes, i did state the boiling point of an oil as a single number, and i felt terrible pangs of guilt when i did. i didn't even put °C after them. i didn't feel like typing out the whole thing.
those references to hydroxyamphetamine were correct... they were referring to metabolites or reaction products =P
 
yeah i see it now
yes i make mistakes
quite often
this is why you dont get to see my transcript.
 
Roches, lemme tell ya, as a UofT alumnus:
Misteaks happen, expecially iff one gets there ejucation at U of t. ;p
 
Roches, lemme tell ya, as a UofT alumnus:
Misteaks happen, expecially iff one gets there ejucation at U of t. ;p
 
I THINK YOU GUYS ARE ALL GREAT!! I HAVE ONE QUESTION, ARE MOST OF YOU (that post on this message board) EUROPEAN? OR AMERICAN? KEEP UP THE GREAT POSTS! MAYBE ONE DAY THE FDA WILL REGULATE "E" AND WE'LL ALL FEEL SAFE! (HAHA)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top