Heroin Plugging Heroin

[f33lg00d]

^rectally is definitively more effective than intranasal for heroin.

I'm not sure what's the relevance of patients on heroin maintence getting up to a gram a day, addicts tolerances get very high- I'm sure there's some that doesn't even hold.

 

[crOOk]

^rectally is definitively more effective than intranasal for heroin.

I'm not sure what's the relevance of patients on heroin maintence getting up to a gram a day, addicts tolerances get very high- I'm sure there's some that doesn't even hold.

Is that arrow pointing towards me? I never said anything that would contradict your statement, so I don't quite see how the arrow was relevant.
And since you didn't ask any question, I honestly don't see any relevance in you telling us that you don't see how what I wrote is relevant?

But even without asking I'll tell you why I found it remarkable. Not necessarily relevant to the question at hand (which it doesn't have to be for me to mention it in my post), but nonetheless remarkable. It's simply a lot of Heroin is all I was saying. We are not talking about your average street dope here, but pure Heroin and doctors are usually pretty careful when it comes to the maximum daily dosage of opiates.

Maybe you should have asked a question though because we are not talking about maintenance therapy, but about pain management! These patients aren't in the hospital because they had acquired a huge smack habit, but have been suffering such strong and persistant and seemingly therapy resistant pain over years, that they have reached a dosage of 1000mg/d. I found that very impressive.
In my experience tolerance does not build up as fast when a person has a more or less constant plasma level of an opiate, opposed to slamming huge doses as many addicts do.

I am not that familiar with Heroin metabolism, but am aware Heroin itself has a short life. It's still metabolized to at least 2 other opiates (right?), so the effects last over 3-4h (right?) which s about how long oxymorphone acts. The equianalgesic dosage ratio between Heroin and Oxymorphone is about 1:1,5. That's 1500mg oxymorphone per day.

How many Heroin addicts have you met that could slam 1500mg oxymorphone per day (using this because Heroin purity is so unreliable, a bag isn't really a precise amount of Heroin as far as I know).
Maybe I'm making things too easy because Heroin will act shorter and shorter over time due to the metabolites not causing enough opioidergic activity due to the tolerance established by the diamorphine. If that is so and you are aware of it, you could have shared that knowledge. Either way I still think 1g diamorphine per day is very impressive. I haven't seen any patients who received several grams of morphine per day - nothing even close to that. Morphine's half life is 2-3h...

Maybe I'm just naive and I haven't met the type of people you've dealt with in life. Maybe these figures are normal for hardcore junkies.

Also, we should remember that opiates are quite expensive. Financial considerations are always of importance in health care.

 

[f33lg00d]

generally most half-synthetic opiates have poor rectal BA, below oral BA.

In terms of harm reduction you should take it orally, rectally, intransally, smoke or IV it, in that order.

Those two statements are what made me think you were suggesting that, I see now that your not with your clarification.


Lol you're a funny dude, all I'm saying is it'd be better suited in maybe like the heroin megathread, interesting nevertheless.

 

[madonit]

^ yeah I'm pretty sure it's #3, everyone just smokes it here and it doesn't dissolve well at all in water unless you heat it. Still some people here IV and to prepare the shot they just heat it, aren't you supposed to add an acid first?

OMG yes you are ment to add an acid to it 95% of all europes heroin is heroin number 3 or freebase heroin. It will do nothing absolutely nothing without a weak acid like vit c or citric acid. Dont do no more till you get some vitimin c or citric acid powder as its a pure waste of heroin. Heroin Hci or Number 4 has no colour to it in the works and is water soluble on its own but our european heroin is not water soluble without an acid. If its smokable on the foil its number 3 although i have heard heroin HCI can be smoked if you add a bit of pure caffiene powder to it but im not sure on that one. HCI will char up i think on the foil.

 

[madonit]

Theres also heroin number 2 which is the old skool heroin thats a lot darker in colour the old fashioned poorer quality brown that last used to dominate in the 90's and early 2000's . I belive this is a more crude and less refined version of heroin that does not normally exceed 70% pure even when uncut. Heroin number 1 i think is actually just an intermidiate product known as morphine base and is what heroin is refined from. This form never usually makes it onto the street and is never normally seen by users. I am pritty sure it used to get sold in places like thailand cambodia and india to people who specifically wanted morphine and not heroin. Its usually about 84% pure.

 

[Zeeman]

^ yeah I'm pretty sure it's #3, everyone just smokes it here and it doesn't dissolve well at all in water unless you heat it. Still some people here IV and to prepare the shot they just heat it, aren't you supposed to add an acid first?

Oh yea, that's definitely #3. Adding acid to #3 heroin turns it into #4 - an acid-base neutralization reaction that produces a salt - which then dissolves in water for injection.

You'd want to turn your #3 into #4 if you want to plug it. But if you need to smoke half a gram to get a decent high without much tolerance, that sounds like pretty horrendous quality H!

 

[Zeeman]

Heroin Hci or Number 4 has no colour to it

True if you have pure heroin HCl, but not always true for street quality heroin. I have some chunky brown #4 heroin right now. First time I got an order like that in the mail, I was like "fucker sent me #3!" But no, it was definitely #4; instantly dissolved in water without heat. Good quality stuff too, but of course has impurities like all illicit drugs, likely from the production process.