Please save me from the needle

[rhun]

^ don't even worry about it, you're all good.

Just be careful with that... physical barriers (no money, moving, no dealer) have never slowed me down for long. Will you have to kick this time?

I've got a pretty busy schedule with work, multiple doctor appointments (baby on the way + medication), taking care of our animals, cooking and cleaning, and I'm also starting group therapy. But I try and start my day with an AA meeting. None of my coworkers know about my past and I just moved to a city where I don't know anyone so it's been nice to meet people I can relate to. And idk, my day just seems to go better when I start off with recovery. Is something like that an option?

I don't know if you already answered this but what's your schedule like, are you working right now? Any more thoughts on the 12 month program? If you're not going to do that I would be more than happy to set up a recovery plan with you if you're able and willing

 

[Get2Think]

I am trying to get motivated for sobriety/recovery but to start over from day 1 again is really messing with my head. Right now I'm living a very bad way, still stuck doing whaever i have to to get dope to avoid sickness. Which is usually always knocking on my door. At least I am sort of tapering down due to a lack of money.

 

[bcfly7x7]

Dont you want that pain to end? Check in and get support, the pain will be minimized. Let others help you, be humble, vulnerable and ready with an open mind. Make that leap Get2, you'll be so happy once you take that first step.

I was scared shitless and had the same thoughts as you. Our minds aren't clear at that point, so try and find a moment of clarity and make a choice. Continue on, or create a new life. Either way, you hold the power not the dope. Praying for you man.

Be strong,

Bob

 

[neversickanymore]

All your going to give up is you misery get2

As fly stated reach out.. running through hell is rough.. personally Id rather navigate that gauntlet with a group of good folks who have been there.. whats the deal with not returning to the fellowships.. does it come down to pride.. quit holding yourself to the standards of a god.. come down and join the ranks of the rest of us mortals.. we are great people.. we fuck up all day long.. we even choose to fuck up.. old school says it well, "ain't no thing but a chicken wing." come on join the rest of US great imperfect people.. so ya relapsed.. Hold on, let me call the fuck this person is a total loser and needs to be judged by hell fire crowd..

FUCK THAT.. GIVE YOURSELF A KIND BREAK ALREADY>> THIS SHIT IS HARD ENOUGH WITHOUT US CRUSHING OURSELVES.. YOU'RE NOT A GOD, YOUR A FUCK UP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS EARTH.. WELCOME TO THE CLUB.. PLEASE QUIT TAKING EVERYTHING SO SERIOUSLY.. IF WE DO THIS THEN LIFE BECOMES A SERIOUS DRAG We are hear to learn and the best way To do this is to make as many blunders as possible!! Its how we get wise, trust me, blunder is my real name.

Show me a person who has lived a life without struggle or considerable folly and i will be able to point a finger at a wasted life.

Give yourself a break and come join the living

 

[bcfly7x7]

All your going to give up is you misery get2


FUCK THAT.. GIVE YOURSELF A KIND BREAK ALREADY>> THIS SHIT IS HARD ENOUGH WITHOUT US CRUSHING OURSELVES.. YOU'RE NOT A GOD, YOUR A FUCK UP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS EARTH.. WELCOME TO THE CLUB.. PLEASE QUIT TAKING EVERYTHING SO SERIOUSLY.. IF WE DO THIS THEN LIFE BECOMES A SERIOUS DRAG We are hear to learn and the best way To do this is to make as many blunders as possible!! Its how we get wise, trust me, blunder is my real name.

Show me a person who has lived a life without struggle or considerable folly and i will be able to point a finger at a wasted life.

Give yourself a break and come join the living

Wow, great points neversick, I just learned more reading that. This is my whole reason for posting here. To define what I am and where I'm going.

Threads, credit to you get2, and posts like those with in the thread all help me out. I keep my mind open, and absorb it all, good and bad. IM A FUCK UP THAT LOST 6YEARS OF MY DAUGHTER'S LIFE. I CAN'T GET THAT BACK. WHAT I CAN GET IS FORGIVENESS AND REACCEPTANCE. I choose to remember the worst to push me forward and never go back. I consider myself very lucky because my wife and daughter are still in my life. I nearly lost them by my own actions. NEVER AGAIN!

Join us, accept your role and you're not god, a deity, mabye TBD, (joke) but truly is not bad to be imperfect. Einstein and Tesla failed over and over. Failure is an option, when searching for a/the solution.

Bob

 

[neversickanymore]

Wow, great points neversick,
Bob

Thank you fly!:D


Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.
Thomas A. Edison

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison
(careful here as we learned allot though it just needs to be tweaked a bit}

Everyone fails at everything untill they succeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rhun]

I am trying to get motivated for sobriety/recovery but to start over from day 1 again is really messing with my head. Right now I'm living a very bad way, still stuck doing whaever i have to to get dope to avoid sickness. Which is usually always knocking on my door. At least I am sort of tapering down due to a lack of money.

Trust me, starting over is no big deal and most of your worry is probably in your head. At least that's how it was with me. I was a freaking newcomer a dozen times in 6 months. What I learned is that the only thing you're starting over is detox and PAWS, you'll still have all the tools you learned previously in recovery. Relapse can only drag you down if you don't learn from it. It took me multiple attempts to get sober but each time I progressed a little further than the last. Just remind yourself that it's a work in progress and as long as you're actively trying and going back to those meetings you're going to be okay. We're usually damn stubborn in our use, you just gotta apply that to recovery.

Today my recovery is made up of multiple components. Everyone is different but what is currently working for me is 12 step meetings, a support system, group therapy, low dose buprenorphine, medication for my anxiety and bipolar symptoms, healthy diet and exercise, helping other addicts, and working a job I love. But like I said, it was a long road to get to here and it took some serious work to get to where I am now and able to maintain on the above. And I still have my bad days. But it's night and day compared to before... last year I was at death's door and utterly devoid of any kind of hope.

Why don't you look into a detox center just to get you started? They're usually very cheap and no one has to know. Not sure how you're paying rent and such, but a good next step would be a SLE with a lot of structure. Tell your family you've been having cravings and this would be the best fit if you're to continue your sobriety. 12 step meetings are free and the right sponsor makes all the difference.

I know you don't have insurance so PM me if you'd like to know more about getting buprenorphine and other medications cheap or at no cost to you. I currently pay out of pocket for treatment and medication. It can be done.

 

[Get2Think]

I would love to get on subs if I could. I could get on methadone in 45 days or less but I'm really afraid of that shit. I've been on subs in the past and while it sucks getting off it, it would be really helpful just getting me out of the daily grind of buying dope to avoid sickness. I can't do a detox unfortunitly at this point. I can do AA/NA, i just dont. I want to be done using so badly and I think the problem is that if I had enough money to keep using I probley would. I just dont feel ready to begin recovery again it is such a daunting process and there is a lot of crap to be done. I know I know, using is hell too, but it feels easier because I don't have to do anything drastic. Im like in hell trying to find a way to make it comfortable.

Guys I want to be done and I want out. I'm just really not at all excited for sobriety and recovery which is new to me because in the past it was the excitement of a new life that got me through withdrawal and early sobriety. Now that Ive had sobriety and lost it, Im afraid to sober up and see clearly the opportunities lost and all the terrible things I did this go-around. Im terrified to go look for a job and go do normal-people things again. I just feel so weak and powerless friends. I have never been such a victim "woe is me" type person before. I dunno what happened.

I guess failing at sobriety and recovery for the last few years and loosing more and more stuff and getting worse and worse into debt has discouraged me about sobriety and recovery. I almost dont believe it will work for me anymore. I cant get past 7 months. I cant stay sober long enough to gix my life. I truly want to die almost if I wouldnt go to hell that is. Sorry to be so draumatic. I just cant see any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[bcfly7x7]

I just dont feel ready to begin recovery again it is such a daunting process and there is a lot of crap to be done. I know I know, using is hell too, but it feels easier because I don't have to do anything.

Keeping this straightforward with you, you're not ready yet. Haven't lost enough, hit rock bottom, ready to accept what you've done. Thats ok, because you need to before to try again. Once you do and you make that choice, your life will change.

Guys I want to be done and I want out. I'm just really not at all excited for sobriety and recovery which is new to me because in the past it was the excitement of a new life that got me through withdrawal and early sobriety. Now that Ive had sobriety and lost it, Im afraid to sober up and see clearly the opportunities lost and all the terrible things I did this go-around.

Case and point. What will it take to be ready, for me it was missing 6 years of my daughter's life. Chasing the medication, the events I missed with close family. For each person its different and thats ok. I hope you find that bottom, because nothing we said will make you do this. We can provide support, links to data, and be there for you. You need to want it more than the dope, when you get a moment of clarity, please use it wisely, think about where you want your life to be not the short road (wd, rehab, detox) but a year from that point. Then take it one day at a time.

I guess failing at sobriety and recovery for the last few years and loosing more and more stuff and getting worse and worse into debt has discouraged me about sobriety and recovery.

How is this possible? You use, and life gets worse? Of course it's gonna get worse, but how is that blamed on sobriety and recovery? Seems like it should be the other way around. Get2, im praying for you, find your road, walk it slow, take in your surroundings and get back to enjoying life.

Bob

 

[Get2Think]

I'm really trying to bring up my rock bottom without having to loose everything I own and more time of my life. Since I was a teenager drugs have had their way with me and I am so tired of it. It really scares me to think that I still haven't hit my bottom but in reality I've hit a few branches on the way down to the bottom, and they have sobered me up for a while. Life gets better, and then I jump off and begin my downward descent. Everytime I start using again life gets unbelievably shitty. I'm going to go through my withdrawals now my goal is to make it all day (24 hours) without using.

During this time I will do some journaling, read my NA book, read bluelight, and do some serious reflection and prayer. I don't want to sink any lower trust me, it's just that telling me not to do dope, you might as well be telling me not to eat or drink. But this shit has to stop, I havent laughed once since I relapsed and picked up the needle 2 months ago.

This had been a living nightmare but you know what I was able to get through thr withdrawals a couple weeks ago. Sure it took me like a week or minimal using here and there but I did make it through the withdrawals only to go visit my dealer the next day because I was too scared to live sober and I just felt shell shocked by the rellapse and how things could go from really damn good to unbelievably shitty so fast. I was doing so good before my relapse, and that crushes me. I'm terrified to sober up and face the music (reality).

 

[rhun]

^ hey I'm at work so I can't reply in full yet to your last two posts but I'll be off at 1pm my time and I'll try and check on you throughout the day ok?

 

[munchbawks]

Someone metioned that suboxone has more mild withdrawal effects. I think I would agree partially. But after kicking 3 times. One from long term high doses of suboxone. The psychological aspect of suboxone withdrawal and the paws was much worse and over time drove me back into using. Not to mention with suboxone. The withdrawals last FOREVER compared to short acting opiates. Long story short. Suboxone fucking sucks for me. The WD lasts forever. And the paws was horrendous compared to coming off of oxycodone and dilaudid where with the latter 2 it was 3-5 days of shakes and shitting as opposed to 14 days of shakes and shitting followed by 6 moths of suicidal depression. Be wary of suboxone. If your habit is bad and long enough to warrant it. It may be good. But I view this as a last resort. In my case it did more harm than good.

 

[rhun]

Someone metioned that suboxone has more mild withdrawal effects. I think I would agree partially. But after kicking 3 times. One from long term high doses of suboxone. The psychological aspect of suboxone withdrawal and the paws was much worse and over time drove me back into using. Not to mention with suboxone. The withdrawals last FOREVER compared to short acting opiates. Long story short. Suboxone fucking sucks for me. The WD lasts forever. And the paws was horrendous compared to coming off of oxycodone and dilaudid where with the latter 2 it was 3-5 days of shakes and shitting as opposed to 14 days of shakes and shitting followed by 6 moths of suicidal depression. Be wary of suboxone. If your habit is bad and long enough to warrant it. It may be good. But I view this as a last resort. In my case it did more harm than good.

I was referring to a rapid buprenorphine taper vs a rapid methadone taper. It's going to be easier with bupe (brand names Subutex, Suboxone).

In your case, you have to remember that every time you detox it's going to be harder than the last. Also, it sounds like you were on maintenance which definitely comes with longer lasting withdrawal. But a correct taper and correct medication should minimize the symptoms. I always advocate a bupe taper over a methadone taper and same goes for bupe maintenance over methadone maintenance.

In the case of the OP though, he is without a doubt a case for bupe maintenance until he gets stable and has some recovery time. This is because of his past history, he's made multiple attempts at getting sober and cold turkey detox has clearly failed here. He needs to try something else or he's just setting himself up for failure. Most IV heroin addicts need maintenance medication in my experience as cold turkey detox has something like a 90% relapse rate.

 

[Treefa]

You might try saving yourself..

Sorry to tell ya, but you did this to yourself, and your the only one that can truly 'undo' it, if you will.

Opiates are definitely addictive enough, even without the needle, which is one reason I've always stayed away from them. Several times when broke and desperate, I considered I.v.ing (my mother is a nurse and there were always a variety of syringes, needles of various gauges, i'm talking boxes, up in the old med cabinet...on 1 or 2 occasions I felt sympathetic towards my closer junkie friends and gave them a handful of clean syringes, and 2 pocketfulls of clean needles...cause they were some pretty unclean mofuckas, as far as rigs are concerned, probably shared needles and God knows what else...but I digress)) but thankfully my fear of needles, and more importantly my fear of becoming a full-blown junk fiend kept me from ever using the needle thus far..thank God I stayed away from them.

The needle, i'm sure, is a whole separate demon within itself...get away from the needle most importantly!
The opiates, are a different matter....self medication and the like..you'll have to work to the root of your problems. If you MUST replace opiates with other drugs, then I think opiate maintenance would be much more wise than would a whole slew of psychiactric meds that will probably be 10x worse for your mind and body..

Personally, I don't think I would do to good in the whole rehab setting...i'd probably be stealing the stock of methadone, and punching people in the throat for asking how i'm doing or something, lol. Not for me, I prefer to kick on my own with plenty of Reefer/Opioids(oral obviously, though if you truly want off ALL opiates, omit the opiates)/Benzos/ Low doses of alcohol, maybe.
Stay hydrated, and try to stay active...especially difficult if your in pain, on top of the opioid addiction, but important. And EAT WELL! The benzos and weed always help me with this, and when I eat, withdrawals always seem much less severe, IMHO.
Keep in mind I've never kicked heroin, specifically, but rather moderate doses of pharmaceutical opes.

Anyhow, good luck getting off the junk, think POSITIVE, all the time man....you are the only one who can do this for yourself, you have to be the one who decides to stop..nobody really helps me, but maybe you have some support, or if you feel the need for a rehab facility, there is no shame in that.

P.S. Consider yourself lucky if you don't have a physically painful condition to deal with. I assume it would make it much easier to quit...maybe not, however.

 

[bcfly7x7]

In the case of the OP though, he is without a doubt a case for bupe maintenance until he gets stable and has some recovery time. This is because of his past history, he's made multiple attempts at getting sober and cold turkey detox has clearly failed here. He needs to try something else or he's just setting himself up for failure. Most IV heroin addicts need maintenance medication in my experience as cold turkey detox has something like a 90% relapse rate.

Rhun,

First, I know we disagree about the subs vs methadone. This is not an attack, but an honest question. Now I live on the east coast, I looked into suboxone about a year and a half before I checked into detox. I called that national add that promotes suboxone, I ask about insurance coverage, they said sure, and gave me a list of 7 drs in my area that accept insurance. I called everyone of them, not one took insurance. Pretty standard fare was 300 for initial visit, then 150 per month there after, not including the subs. I also had top end insurance with IBX, PPO. While my monthly cost for dr, and all meds I was taking, cost about 68$.

I agree in his case subs maintenance is probably best, but can he afford it? He has no insurance, minimal money, and is trying to taper using the last of his H. Im just curious honestly, because if the cost was less I would have done that long ago.

Thx,

Bob

 

[rhun]

^ tbh, I think our disagreement is mostly a case of misunderstanding each other as I think you were comparing your 5 day detox using methadone compared to long-term buprenorphine maintenance. Where I'm comparing rapid detox using methadone to rapid detox using bupe as well as long-term methadone maintenance to buprenorphine maintenance. Many treatment centers use bupe to taper people completely off opiates in 30 days are less. And there are way more people stuck on methadone than there are people on bupe maintenance, like your friend.

Anyway, here in California it's totally backwards. In a lot of cases insurance will cover it, but they want you to try methadone first. This is really just because methadone has been used in treating addiction for so long and buprenorphine is relatively new. Finding a doctor who both accepts your insurance and is certified to prescribe it can definitely be quite a process. But it's definitely affordable now, where back when brand name Subutex first came out the price was astronomical and very few people were fortunate enough to be able to be on it.

I've been paying out of pocket for buprenorphine since November of last year, both for the doctor visits and the medication. Just recently got insurance again which may start covering it. I left behind a decent paying job to go to treatment and quickly realized I couldn't move back if I wanted to stay off dope. So I'm a barista right now, pay all my own bills, and can still pay for my medication. It's doable.

The important thing is you need a doctor that can prescribe the Subutex generic, not Suboxone. The generic plus the coupon from GoodRX makes it ridiculously cheap. Especially if you're pretty low dose, which the OP would be. If insurance won't cover the doctors visit, the right doctor or clinic is key. I just moved so I'm at a clinic now, and the first month was pricey but after that it's cheap and they let me do payments. My previous doctor would just see me long enough to write the script and would only bill me for 15 minutes or a half hour because he knew my situation.

However small his dope habit is, bupe will be cheaper. And he doesn't have to do maintenance, he can do a taper or just be on it for 90 days to 6 months... long enough to get him early recovery, through the worst of the cravings, and and get him into a routine of active recovery. For many of us, our life is on the line. This medication is life saving and its cheaper than our habits.

I'm not allowed to list prices, but you and the OP are welcome to message me if you'd like to know.

 

[BlueSaffron]

The WD lasts forever. And the paws was horrendous compared to coming off of oxycodone and dilaudid where with the latter 2 it was 3-5 days of shakes and shitting as opposed to 14 days of shakes and shitting followed by 6 moths of suicidal depression. .

I had the same thing coming off methadone, I just didn't post about it at the time in my quitting thread because I didn't want to worry people. I was afraid I was going crazy, I actually thought a couple times that maybe I should see about being admitted inpatient to a psych facility. I woke up in the morning and my first thought was about jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

I'm detoxing off heroin now, self-tapering and I'm almost done, and while when I wake sick in the morning I feel kind of low, it's nothing like when I was on methadone. I'll never touch methadone again.

 

[rhun]

^ I agree that methadone withdrawal can be infinitely worse than coming off heroin. There's a reason people have died from CT detox off high doses of methadone. And even just tapering off can be miserable if you do it too quickly.

You absolutely can come off methadone without any major discomfort, but it takes a long time. I was on methadone 6 months and it took another 6 months to taper off. My dad has been on methadone 10 years and on 300mg... He's in the middle of a taper that will literally take years.

I've never heard of anyone coming off heroin successfully by using heroin to taper. But if you've been able to do so then good for you, really.

 

[bcfly7x7]

Thx rhun,

Yea know all about the coupons, and you're correct, it does make that part financially viable. I was not aware of the clinic procedures, billing on a per minutes basis. Thats good info to know.

I also agree with the misunderstanding, and sorry for any hostility. For me the 5 day methadone taper worked.

I do see though, if you can't fight the cravings, fortunately I am able to, why subutex would be the smart choice. In the end you said it best and I couldn't agree more, it's all about saving lives.

Peace rhun,

Bob

 

[rhun]

^ it's buprenorphine doctors who have been willing to bill me for less than an hour, though they're by no means the norm. I found one willing to do so by calling treatment centers and asking if they knew of anyone willing to work with someone who was limited financially. Addicts who don't do buprenorphine detox and opt for maintenance leave treatment needing to find a doctor to continue their prescription so treatment centers usually have a list of doctors to recommend. Clinics usually have more set rates but usually do payment plans and some even have sliding scales based on income.

Methadone has been the standard for many years now, both for detoxes like yours and maintenance. Buprenorphine is slowly replacing it though because there's less side effects, less potential for abuse, and you don't have to daily dose. Plus switching from say heroin to methadone is switching from a full agonist opioid to another full agonist, which definitely is swapping one addiction for another unless you taper off quickly. Though methadone lets you lead a more stable life without a doubt.

I've seen a lot of rehabs do a 10 day buprenorphine taper. But for addicts unable to sustain sobriety without maintenance, there's long term bupe treatment. Which may well be needed in the OP' s case.

And we're all good, if anything I think I was frustrated only because I felt we weren't understanding each other