Benzos Please do your best to talk me out of becoming benzo dependent because I’m crossing that line and know I need to stop myself but I can’t

[LucidSDreamr]

Please do your best to talk me out of becoming benzo dependent because I’m crossing that line and know I need to stop myself but I can’t

I’ve been an opioid dependent person for over a decade and it’s a fucking living hell. Now I’m going to add benzo dependency on top of it.

I know this is going to fuck me over bad if I get dependent I need someone to slap some sense into or lecture me or something.

I need to gain the desire not to cross this line. How do I get that desire? Common sense tells me it’s wrong to do this But things are going badly health wise for me and I just don’t care about anything anymore. I know I’m going to pay hard for it if I become benzo dependent.

I’ve always taken tolerance breaks my whole life annd experienced a very minor withdrawal starting a few of the past T breaks (a strange feeling of malaise that I can’t quite describe). but for a month now I’ve been taking 20 to 40 mg diazepam daily.

 

[deficiT]

There is no problem you have that won't be made worse by benzo dependence. Not only are the blackouts, impulsive behaviors, dumb shit that happens when you take benzos bad, but the effects on your mental and physical health are miserable.

 

[burn out]

Benzos are the worst drug to become dependent on, I don't know of any other drug that doesn't offer a way back. I quit benzos in 2009 and have been chronically unwell since after only 18 months of usage. There are many other drugs that relieve anxiety and much healthier and more fun than benzos why would you choose benzos over something else?

 

[PtahTek]

talk me out of becoming benzo dependent

Hi,
hope you are well atm.
may i ask how long you have been on bzd? in total?
it is indeed a very delicate walk with bnzs i wanna gobble em all up and have the option but stay on course. Once in a while I will take more (like today - anxieties through the roof for some reason after a day of feeling so drained (yesterday). So much energy/anxiety whatever I am dosing more today. Will start tomorrow as a new days and resume course as usual.

for a month now I’ve been taking 20 to 40 mg diazepam daily

OK. This doesnt seem to difficult to get off of given time (to me) but i feel ya dont wanna drop them completely just get that power back to be able to take breaks and whatnot. Am I anywhere in the area of what your post is about?
Ya gonna need to exercise that will and turn your head, get busy with something/someone else and wait it out till ya think its time. Ha! i always seem to have time for bnz but know the trap well and am pretty damn proud of getting my power back, tbph.
Are these legit scripted benzos or "street"?
Thanks and imma say that if i can keep a tenuous hold on using benzos then i would bet that you can get back there and i do not gamble.
I look at my bottle(s) of bnz in scorn but I really do not have an issue with taking it as needed. God they help so much at times.
Is supply sustainable "forever" or is this transient like everything else. Just thinking that one wouldnt want to get cut off for whatever reason on a moderate or higher dose of bnzs... hell any daily dose for that matter.
Peace

 

[LucidSDreamr]

why would you choose benzos over something else?

because opioids used to be enough for me to deal with chronic pain but since they’ve cracked down and cut everyone’s doses to shit that even got t o stay on them…I have now added benzos , ironically prescribed by the same doctor as the opioids to deal with the chronic pain.

I asked him once to raise the opioid dose and discontinue the benzos because “the opioids worked much better”. Mind you the opioid dose worked fine for 4 years straight. If this was a tolerance issue it would’ve happened much earlier as I have been dependent for 15 years total at levels 100x what I’m at now days. The real issue is a real bad recent increase in Paine due to a flare.

I have to talk to him and frame it as “I’ve gone all this time not being dependent on benzos you prescribed me…because I told you I took them only sporadically, but because you won’t raise me opioid dose I am now dosing benzos daily and am going to become dependent on a second drug.”

But benzos are low schedule and don’t matter to the law but him raising my C2 opioid dose is something he says he can’t do because the government is up his ass bad.

I never have broken the law and don’t want to because I have so much to lose if I do…but it almost feels like it’s safer health wise to supplement with illicit opioids and toss the benzos. How fucked up is our law if that’s my better medical solution than a 50% raise of my dose which is only 30 morphine mg equivalent equigesic when u do the translation.

The original CDC guideline that caused them to taper everyone down were only for patients at 90+

 

[JackARoe]

,I have been reading your diazepam posts Lucid the last few years. I would have thought that with all the use you already were addicted. But you would come here and say you escaped this time. Goes to show benzos are different than opiates. Opiates much more quickly addicting.

If you still have the ability to get away without physical dependence I would. Here is the thing. It can be very pleasant to be addicted to something in the honeymoon phase, especially when you start feeling the withdrawal but are stocked with the drug and it makes it go away. That works. pain/relief. Relief is always pleasant. It is the basis of all pleasure. But that ends and I would listen to these guys with experience. I am fully aware that Burn Out said he is still not right years after stopping benzos. Powerful statements. Eventually they will not give relief. Maybe for some who keep their daily doses low. But I am sure that is hard for most people that actually "like" benzos.

Also they stop working, although if a person can stick with the minimum that would be best. But people always raise their dose.

I honestly can not see (for me) the addiction potential of benzos. I hate the effect unless I have anxiety issues (rare) or want to sleep on command. To sleep on demand is a catch, but I can pretty much sleep just using cannabis. I can't even watch TV on benzos, I can't keep focus. It takes away sparkle and care.

Keep yourself well Lucid. (and keep posting on the political board, you have a Hunter S. Thompson style sarcasm when it comes to politics )

Anyhow you asked us to talk you out of it, I figured a guy who was never addicted to benzos (me) should also chime in. Looking forward to other responses of the experienced.

 

[Landrew]

 

[chippermonk]

Yeah, Lucid, you are right, you don't want to go down that benzo road, they suck. But it doesn't seem like 30 days and at that dosage is too far gone to quit with some measured tapering, IMHO. Too bad your doctor doesn't work with you better on this. You sound like you are taking them for pain, and it seems like you need something else in your tool bag to help you with that pain, or at least to dampen it down. Has the doctor suggested any other options, either physical therapy, an operation, or other drugs that you could try? I have been wondering a lot about trying kratom, it sounds like it has a lot of potential to help with pain, physical and emotional, and it's legal, plus no need to go through a doctor. Of course, like anything, it has harm risks: I'm going to put it on rotation with the other chemicals in my tool bag, that's how I avoid excessive reliance on any one thing, plus like some others said above, it keeps the beneficial pleasurable aspects fresher. Just be careful when tapering and substituting because benzos can really interact poorly with a lot of drugs, including kratom, opiates, and alcohol.
I also have to make a pitch for doing things that improve your mental happiness. For me, when I'm in a depressed phase everything starts hurting more physically. I really benefit from doing gentle restorative yoga and physical exercise, sitting in the sun in nature (hard to do at this time of year!) It can be hard to take those positive steps but I find I really do get a benefit.
good luck and keep us posted!

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Next thing you know you'll be in Russia getting put into a medical coma to go through benzo wd

 

[burn out]

because opioids used to be enough for me to deal with chronic pain but since they’ve cracked down and cut everyone’s doses to shit that even got t o stay on them…I have now added benzos , ironically prescribed by the same doctor as the opioids to deal with the chronic pain.

I asked him once to raise the opioid dose and discontinue the benzos because “the opioids worked much better”. Mind you the opioid dose worked fine for 4 years straight. If this was a tolerance issue it would’ve happened much earlier as I have been dependent for 15 years total at levels 100x what I’m at now days. The real issue is a real bad recent increase in Paine due to a flare.

I have to talk to him and frame it as “I’ve gone all this time not being dependent on benzos you prescribed me…because I told you I took them only sporadically, but because you won’t raise me opioid dose I am now dosing benzos daily and am going to become dependent on a second drug.”

But benzos are low schedule and don’t matter to the law but him raising my C2 opioid dose is something he says he can’t do because the government is up his ass bad.

I never have broken the law and don’t want to because I have so much to lose if I do…but it almost feels like it’s safer health wise to supplement with illicit opioids and toss the benzos. How fucked up is our law if that’s my better medical solution than a 50% raise of my dose which is only 30 morphine mg equivalent equigesic when u do the translation.

The original CDC guideline that caused them to taper everyone down were only for patients at 90+

But benzos aren't even particularly effective for pain, so why become dependent on a drug that's not even a painkiller if pain is your problem? Of course supplementing with illegal opioids would be a better option than becoming dependent on benzos. Even if you go to prison, at least a prison sentence has a definite end. Benzo discontinuation syndrome does not.

However, as I see it you didn't really even answer my question. My question is that out of all the drugs available, why pick benzos? Are you aware there are other options? For instance, have you ever heard of any of the following?

kratom - It might be possible for you to maintain your dependence on kratom while using the prescribed opiates for breakthrough pain

kava - heavy strains of kava are far more effective for pain than benzos and it works for anxiety too. No withdrawal when you stop and it's also more recreational.

wild lettuce - this herb is pretty mild but it does have synergistic effects with regular opiates and I'd rate it higher than benzos in terms of pain relief

gabapentin - no personal experience with this one but my mother and my dog were both given this for pain

amanita muscaria - this can be extremely effective for pain, but do lots of research beforehand because its very important to get the dose right as it can make you trip at higher doses.

carisoprodol - I don't like this drug personally but I'd say it's more effective for pain than benzos and many people do like it, especially combined with opiates

marijuana/CBD - don't know if it's legal where you live but cannabis, while not a great painkiller imo (though some swear by it) I'd still rank it above benzos in terms of pain relief

Those are just a few options off the top of my head, many of them legal and easy to get. Why would you even consider taking benzos without first exhausting all other options?

 

[cdin]

Please do your best to talk me out of becoming benzo dependent because I’m crossing that line and know I need to stop myself but I can’t

I’ve been an opioid dependent person for over a decade and it’s a fucking living hell. Now I’m going to add benzo dependency on top of it.

I know this is going to fuck me over bad if I get dependent I need someone to slap some sense into or lecture me or something.

I need to gain the desire not to cross this line. How do I get that desire? Common sense tells me it’s wrong to do this But things are going badly health wise for me and I just don’t care about anything anymore. I know I’m going to pay hard for it if I become benzo dependent.

I’ve always taken tolerance breaks my whole life annd experienced a very minor withdrawal starting a few of the past T breaks (a strange feeling of malaise that I can’t quite describe). but for a month now I’ve been taking 20 to 40 mg diazepam daily.

benzo withdrawal is the worst, most life altering shit i have ever been through in relation to drugs. Kava/amanita are wonderful for anxiety and cause no problems. magnolia extracts are good as well.
if you have been taking 20-40mg for a month it might be too late, but for the love of fuck don't cop a benzo habit. i've had to come off two of them now and straight up damaging -- like alcohol DTs that just last for fucking months.
it's unbelievable hellraiser type of suffering. I used to think stevie nicks was being hyperbolic in her quote to the press of, "quitting klonopin was like walking through hell," -- if anything she underplays the situation.
like having my fingers plugged into a 120v socket for 9 mos straight unable to sleep, totally psychotic. shaking so badly i can't use door knobs or open a pill bottle. capital F fucked. and if anything happens -
some sort of disaster, a flood, a fire and for whatever reason you are cut off. you will be flopping like a fish while an emergency situation unfolds. 100% not worth it.

I have withdrawan from opioids in the middle of benzo wd simply because i could not feel the opioid wd the benzo wd was so overpowering and awful.
I would go through 1000 more opioid wds than one more benzo wd. I will not touch benzos or ethanol now because of this. Dr DT is a fuckin evil wizard.
nuerotoxic af as well. oh - and staying on them increases risk of dementia (which is why they are pulling a lot of people OFF them.)

if pain is the issue (and it is for me, I am a 3rd degree burn/skin graft survivor) - I get what I can as far as pure pharmaceuticals off the black market, and use kratom.
if you eat enough, it can be sufficient. Poppy seed tea/poppies are another option as well. and even if your doctor is cool handing out the benzos now - that is changing rapidly,
so id really not count on that being a thing forever.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

benzo withdrawal is the worst, most life altering shit i have ever been through in relation to drugs. Kava/amanita are wonderful for anxiety and cause no problems. magnolia extracts are good as well.
if you have been taking 20-40mg for a month it might be too late, but for the love of fuck don't cop a benzo habit. i've had to come off two of them now and straight up damaging -- like alcohol DTs that just last for fucking months.
it's unbelievable hellraiser type of suffering. I used to think stevie nicks was being hyperbolic in her quote to the press of, "quitting klonopin was like walking through hell," -- if anything she underplays the situation.
like having my fingers plugged into a 120v socket for 9 mos straight unable to sleep, totally psychotic. shaking so badly i can't use door knobs or open a pill bottle. capital F fucked. and if anything happens -
some sort of disaster, a flood, a fire and for whatever reason you are cut off. you will be flopping like a fish while an emergency situation unfolds. 100% not worth it.

I have withdrawan from opioids in the middle of benzo wd simply because i could not feel the opioid wd the benzo wd was so overpowering and awful.
I would go through 1000 more opioid wds than one more benzo wd. I will not touch benzos or ethanol now because of this. Dr DT is a fuckin evil wizard.
nuerotoxic af as well. oh - and staying on them increases risk of dementia (which is why they are pulling a lot of people OFF them.)

if pain is the issue (and it is for me, I am a 3rd degree burn/skin graft survivor) - I get what I can as far as pure pharmaceuticals off the black market, and use kratom.
if you eat enough, it can be sufficient. Poppy seed tea/poppies are another option as well. and even if your doctor is cool handing out the benzos now - that is changing rapidly,
so id really not count on that being a thing forever.

Thanks.

These are the types of things I need to hear.

Like what the hell even happens when you are incapacitated for months like that? You just lose your job and everything I imagine

Is there even detox centers for it?

 

[burn out]

There are detox centers but generally they just get you off benzos and make sure you don't have seizures. Then they release you severely damaged back into society. I don't know of any centres that keep people 3 or 4 years, which is not an unreasonable recovery time for benzos. There are also centers who won't accept benzo patients because the normal protocols do not work with benzos. Opiate addicts are generally already mostly recovered a few weeks to a month or so after stopping where benzo withdrawal might not even reach peak intensity until about 6 months off.

I lost my job when I was going through benzo wd and ended up spending 6 months mostly laying in bed at one point, then just worked part time for years which is all I could manage. I lived with my mom during those years because I could not earn enough to live on my own only working part time. My mom is dead now, but I am recovered enough to where I am able to support myself though my health still isn't good.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

There are detox centers but generally they just get you off benzos and make sure you don't have seizures. Then they release you severely damaged back into society. I don't know of any centres that keep people 3 or 4 years, which is not an unreasonable recovery time for benzos. There are also centers who won't accept benzo patients because the normal protocols do not work with benzos. Opiate addicts are generally already mostly recovered a few weeks to a month or so after stopping where benzo withdrawal might not even reach peak intensity until about 6 months off.

I lost my job when I was going through benzo wd and ended up spending 6 months mostly laying in bed at one point, then just worked part time for years which is all I could manage. I lived with my mom during those years because I could not earn enough to live on my own only working part time. My mom is dead now, but I am recovered enough to where I am able to support myself though my health still isn't good.

How heavy was your habit May I ask. How much of what were you taking per day?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

But benzos aren't even particularly effective for pain, so why become dependent on a drug that's not even a painkiller if pain is your problem? Of course supplementing with illegal opioids would be a better option than becoming dependent on benzos. Even if you go to prison, at least a prison sentence has a definite end. Benzo discontinuation syndrome does not.

However, as I see it you didn't really even answer my question. My question is that out of all the drugs available, why pick benzos? Are you aware there are other options? For instance, have you ever heard of any of the following?

kratom - It might be possible for you to maintain your dependence on kratom while using the prescribed opiates for breakthrough pain

kava - heavy strains of kava are far more effective for pain than benzos and it works for anxiety too. No withdrawal when you stop and it's also more recreational.

wild lettuce - this herb is pretty mild but it does have synergistic effects with regular opiates and I'd rate it higher than benzos in terms of pain relief

gabapentin - no personal experience with this one but my mother and my dog were both given this for pain

amanita muscaria - this can be extremely effective for pain, but do lots of research beforehand because its very important to get the dose right as it can make you trip at higher doses.

carisoprodol - I don't like this drug personally but I'd say it's more effective for pain than benzos and many people do like it, especially combined with opiates

marijuana/CBD - don't know if it's legal where you live but cannabis, while not a great painkiller imo (though some swear by it) I'd still rank it above benzos in terms of pain relief

Those are just a few options off the top of my head, many of them legal and easy to get. Why would you even consider taking benzos without first exhausting all other options?

I have an ulcerated bladder from ketamine abuse and most of those drugs irritate it and increase pain. Especially kratom was the most caustic damaging thing to my bladder other than ketamine. Iused it a lot prior to my disease and I also thought its analgesia was almost absent. It just stopped withdrawals. I tried taking it once my bladder pain was stabilized and one dose is like setting a bomb of in your bladder. Just hold kratom in your mouth without swallowing it literally burns your mouth. I can’t eat any spicy food whatsoever also for this reason. Kratom has a spice to it…sprinkle it into an open cut and you’ll feel it burn. That’s what I can’t put it through an ulcerated bladder.

Cannabis: I love it as a recreational drug and have used it for a long time. But has always increased all types of pain I’ve ever had including a prior chronic back pain that surgery fixed and same effect with bladder. It increases the perception of pain for me and can set off a flare. This is not an uncommon sentiment among the legitimate chronic pain community either a lot of ppl have this issue with weed that have chronic pain

CBD - no effect

Gabapentin - irritated the bladder causing flares when I tried it

Carisoprodol: Carisoprodol's structural similarity to Meprobamateindicates GABAergic activity, including GABA A agonism, similar to the mechanism of benzodiazepines.[29]

Withdrawal from caisoprodol is likely going to be similar to benzos. Also it’s ancient and never prescribed in the US anymore.

I’m going have this talk with my doctor and tell him I don’t want these benzos anymore. I the opioid dose is too low. the withdrawal is so damaging and I refuse to become dependent on it and he knows I’ve kicked opioids millions of times and that I know how to taper and do it without even missing much work. If he won’t raise the dose due to the governments threats against him then I will do what I have to do to get a dose raise somehow.

 

[burn out]

I was taking about 4 mg xanax per day on average sometimes more than that.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I was taking about 4 mg xanax per day on average sometimes more than that.

Damn that’s significant but not even that heavy.
How long were you on it?

And I answered your question about alternative drugs above in an post I just made

 

[burn out]

You didn't try all the drugs and there are still other options. Withdrawal from carisoprodol is not like benzo. It might be really bad, I'm certainly not recommending getting dependent on it but it doesn't last for years like benzo. I don't know of any other drug that does really, aside from antidrepressants I suppose which some people report long term problems from after coming off but not to the degree of benzos.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

You didn't try all the drugs and there are still other options. Withdrawal from carisoprodol is not like benzo. It might be really bad, I'm certainly not recommending getting dependent on it but it doesn't last for years like benzo. I don't know of any other drug that does really, aside from antidrepressants I suppose which some people report long term problems from after coming off but not to the degree of benzos.

#1 Nobody will prescribe carisoprodol it phased out a never used in the US and with the crackdown on pills is carisoprodol synergies with opioids in a way better than any other downer drug imo. It’s phased out in the US though still legal and I’m not sure if doctors are aware how much more recreational it is to combine with an opioid than a benzo but it’s causes a euphoria that benzos don’t combined with opioids an upper like effect (Ala oxycodone, makes methadone feel like oxy is how I would describe it) benzos don’t do this.

I don’t know if doctors are aware of this though.

#2 I have. I idea if it’s going to irritate my bladder and cause a pain flare. That in itself can feel worse than an opioid withdrawal and can last longer.

#3 I will may. be more prone to abuse my opioid which I don’t do at all if I’m adding carisoprodol. Because my opioid is one of the dirty feeling ones it’s not like I’m getting oxy or hydrocodone.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

Please do your best to talk me out of becoming benzo dependent because I’m crossing that line and know I need to stop myself but I can’t

I’ve been an opioid dependent person for over a decade and it’s a fucking living hell. Now I’m going to add benzo dependency on top of it.

I know this is going to fuck me over bad if I get dependent I need someone to slap some sense into or lecture me or something.

I need to gain the desire not to cross this line. How do I get that desire? Common sense tells me it’s wrong to do this But things are going badly health wise for me and I just don’t care about anything anymore. I know I’m going to pay hard for it if I become benzo dependent.

I’ve always taken tolerance breaks my whole life annd experienced a very minor withdrawal starting a few of the past T breaks (a strange feeling of malaise that I can’t quite describe). but for a month now I’ve been taking 20 to 40 mg diazepam daily.

Ok here goes, kicking an opiate habit is like a walk in the park on a sunny day compared to kicking benzos,,,
Consider yourself warned….