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AADD Moderators: Tronica
Pill Info Request - White SIN - Perth
- Thread starter 2C-R2D2
- Start date
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,343
Please check the Posting Guidelines -- we need some more details to be sure which exact pill you're referring to...
BigTrancer
BigTrancer
Yes I have of course mate i've read the posting guidelines (I don't see how I've broken or failed to meet any guidelines - whats wrong with my post?) ... I dont get why you need more details? I've already given all the information I have ... in a nutshell:
- it's a pill
- it's in Perth
- it's white
- it has "SIN" imprinted on it
- it's supposedly MDMA but my friend called me to check here to find out
So what more do you want to know?!?
I dont think there's anything more I could say even if i knew more. Hence - that is why I've come here to ask for more information. Sorry if I offended you mate, nothing of the sort was intended, all I'm trying to do is find out information for a friend (as many people here do, right?) as I told him I could probably find out info about it for him here as Ive been telling him about this place for ages but he doesnt have the internet (not really a computer-type guy), but so far no replies which I found surprising ... maybe they're brand new pills?
- it's a pill
- it's in Perth
- it's white
- it has "SIN" imprinted on it
- it's supposedly MDMA but my friend called me to check here to find out
So what more do you want to know?!?
I dont think there's anything more I could say even if i knew more. Hence - that is why I've come here to ask for more information. Sorry if I offended you mate, nothing of the sort was intended, all I'm trying to do is find out information for a friend (as many people here do, right?) as I told him I could probably find out info about it for him here as Ive been telling him about this place for ages but he doesnt have the internet (not really a computer-type guy), but so far no replies which I found surprising ... maybe they're brand new pills?
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To more acurately identify a pill more than just a logo and colour is required. Details such as if the pills scored, bevelled, its size can all be used to make sure everyones talking about the same pill. Some logo's are more common than others and numerous pills with the same colour and stamp can be in circulation at any one time, all with different contents. If you can't supply more details than a name and colour you probably have not seen the pill so it would be easy to get misleading information. Assumptions of contents are not helpful either, thats what test kits are for
So we have a blanket rule; no details, no thread.
So we have a blanket rule; no details, no thread.
fcuking_in_heaven
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 163
I thought this place was for information sharing. I'm sure 2C-R2D2 just wants to know if their are any pills matching that description, in the spirit of harm minimisation. Wouldnt the world be a much better place if everyone was helpful.
P.s. i understand about certain guidelines that have been drawn up for certain reasons and i'm definately not taking a dig at anyone. You guys do a fantastic job and i love the site, but wouldn't it be great if we could all just help eachother out.
fcuk in heaven
P.s. i understand about certain guidelines that have been drawn up for certain reasons and i'm definately not taking a dig at anyone. You guys do a fantastic job and i love the site, but wouldn't it be great if we could all just help eachother out.
fcuk in heaven
So much for information sharing and harm minimisation.
Im very disappointed because it was only last week that i was telling my friend how great this site was because I could search for and request information on pills for him and all the people are friendly, yet now this site has simply proved that it's useless for such things.
It's just a PILL - how many more details do you want??? There are only so many ways you can 'measure/describe' a pill - logo, colour, geographic location, etc .. ive basically given you all of those already but its still not enough, so this forum is useless then. You say you need more details, yet youve never said exactly what details -- why not? Because ive already provided them all?
Often i see threads like "yeah ive got this white tablet with a star or snowflake or something on it, anybody know anything?" and they get a lot of helpful replies, so I don't know why I am being singled out here.
_Im just asking for information_, it's that simple, yet im almost being censored for it. I have to say that I find it just ridiculous that moderators are saying "sorry, we need more information in order to provide you with information" when Ive already provided everything there is to say about it. I mean, what more can I say about it? The only thing I haven't told you is what it contains or how good/bad it is, which is why I'm asking here - which I thought was the whole point of this forum, to share information.
I thought this was a place to ask for information about pills, yet it seems like before you can ask for any information you first have to know everything about it in the first place, thus defeating any need of posting here. If I knew any more about the pill I would obviously tell you, but I've told you all that I know and now I just want to see if anybody else knows more ... _that's all_.
Anyway if anybody has anything USEFUL to say then please share so we can make this forum a better (and friendlier) place so we can all learn and be able to take safer approaches to unknown pills/substances - thankyou.
Moderators - I know your HEART is in the right place, but you need to seriously THINK about this. There's just no point in having this forum if you need to know virtually everything about a pill before requesting information about it. Information suppression does NOT minimise the potential for harm, and you know that - afterall, this place was created for information sharing to prevent harm, yet you seem to be running in the opposite direction.
Peace,
2C
This is a public forum - nobody has any way of knowing whether information is misleading or not, everyone must make their own decisions whether information is valid or not, so your point is mute. NO information is almost certainly going to be worse than misleading information as people are going to be blindly gambling with the pill without knowing anything at all, so I'm absolutely dumbfounded that you as a moderator of all people have taken that stance -- I thought harm minimisation was a big factor here, but clearly that is not the case.
Im very disappointed because it was only last week that i was telling my friend how great this site was because I could search for and request information on pills for him and all the people are friendly, yet now this site has simply proved that it's useless for such things.
_I HAVE GIVEN DETAILS!_
It's just a PILL - how many more details do you want??? There are only so many ways you can 'measure/describe' a pill - logo, colour, geographic location, etc .. ive basically given you all of those already but its still not enough, so this forum is useless then. You say you need more details, yet youve never said exactly what details -- why not? Because ive already provided them all?
Often i see threads like "yeah ive got this white tablet with a star or snowflake or something on it, anybody know anything?" and they get a lot of helpful replies, so I don't know why I am being singled out here.
_Im just asking for information_, it's that simple, yet im almost being censored for it. I have to say that I find it just ridiculous that moderators are saying "sorry, we need more information in order to provide you with information" when Ive already provided everything there is to say about it. I mean, what more can I say about it? The only thing I haven't told you is what it contains or how good/bad it is, which is why I'm asking here - which I thought was the whole point of this forum, to share information.
I thought this was a place to ask for information about pills, yet it seems like before you can ask for any information you first have to know everything about it in the first place, thus defeating any need of posting here. If I knew any more about the pill I would obviously tell you, but I've told you all that I know and now I just want to see if anybody else knows more ... _that's all_.
Anyway if anybody has anything USEFUL to say then please share so we can make this forum a better (and friendlier) place so we can all learn and be able to take safer approaches to unknown pills/substances - thankyou.
Moderators - I know your HEART is in the right place, but you need to seriously THINK about this. There's just no point in having this forum if you need to know virtually everything about a pill before requesting information about it. Information suppression does NOT minimise the potential for harm, and you know that - afterall, this place was created for information sharing to prevent harm, yet you seem to be running in the opposite direction.
Peace,
2C
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Even if you know 1) name, 2) logo, 3) color, 4) location, you cant ask for requests?
Yesterday I posted a request for information on White SIN's. I posted everything I know about them:
1) name - "White SINs"
2) logo - the letters "SIN"
3) the color - white
4) location - Perth
(Yes i have read the posting FAQ and its many various updates over the years). I was told that wasn't enough information, and that it may result in replies of "misleading information" which may "increase the potential for harm" (as if no information ie. forcing the user to take a blind gamble is somehow safer) . Another person then posted along the lines of "c'mon, he's just asking for information". Another moderator then posted basically the same useless "replies may increase the potential for harm" lines. I then posted asking isnt this forum useless then if i cant ask for information about it without knowing virtually everything there is about the pill?
The whole thread was then deleted. Information suppression, censorship, call it what you will, but it was an extremely childish way to go about resolving a problem, which I didn't even know existed - heck, I'm just asking if anyone knows anything about a pill.
Deleting threads doesnt make problems go away, communication does. So moderators, please, if there is a problem then just talk to me about it.
Thankyou again for your time.
Yesterday I posted a request for information on White SIN's. I posted everything I know about them:
1) name - "White SINs"
2) logo - the letters "SIN"
3) the color - white
4) location - Perth
(Yes i have read the posting FAQ and its many various updates over the years). I was told that wasn't enough information, and that it may result in replies of "misleading information" which may "increase the potential for harm" (as if no information ie. forcing the user to take a blind gamble is somehow safer) . Another person then posted along the lines of "c'mon, he's just asking for information". Another moderator then posted basically the same useless "replies may increase the potential for harm" lines. I then posted asking isnt this forum useless then if i cant ask for information about it without knowing virtually everything there is about the pill?
The whole thread was then deleted. Information suppression, censorship, call it what you will, but it was an extremely childish way to go about resolving a problem, which I didn't even know existed - heck, I'm just asking if anyone knows anything about a pill.
Deleting threads doesnt make problems go away, communication does. So moderators, please, if there is a problem then just talk to me about it.
Thankyou again for your time.
Pleonastic
Bluelighter
Which moderator was it? You need to post more info in your complaints. Otherwise there may be greater potential for harm and hurt feelings. 
I dont recall the two names but there is no reason to name names anyway, they've really done nothing wrong, their hearts are in the right place but it seems some just take their "job" as moderator far too seriously and abuse that privilege, but I've heard of worse crimes ... ). But I still have faith in this forum and i think that this is just an unfortunate misunderstanding so I'm trying not to take anything personally. I'm just disappointed it wasn't resolved with friendly dialog, because instead I feel like I'm on the wrong end of a stick simply for requesting information about a pill ...
). But I still have faith in this forum and i think that this is just an unfortunate misunderstanding so I'm trying not to take anything personally. I'm just disappointed it wasn't resolved with friendly dialog, because instead I feel like I'm on the wrong end of a stick simply for requesting information about a pill ...
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johnboy
Bluelight Crew
Did you post it here or on pillreports? I'd be extremely suprised if anything was ever deletred here. On pillreports , however, it is standard to delete info requests as there is no place for them on pillreports, they belong here on BL.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,343
2C-R2D2: I removed your thread and immediately thereafter I sent you a Private Message to explain why it was removed and why I have insisted on details in Pill Info Requests for over 4 years on this forum. Check your PMs before getting on your high horse... actually since you've been so kind as to repost this and drag the whole thing out I might as well forward your message here:
Furthermore, your post being removed from this forum for the above reason does not represent a violation of your right to Free Speech or some kind of lapse in Bluelights harm reduction message. This is a moderated forum, posts that follow the guidelines can stay, the others are removed... simple as that. The guidelines for pill info requests have been made as obvious as possible, singled out from the rest of the forum guidelines and stuck at the top of the forum page as an Announcement, reading "Include ALL the information about the pill. A name and a colour is not sufficient to properly identify a specific pill. All the details are important to identify one batch from another. Details such as the pill colour, bevelled/scored/speckled (if present), height/diameter dimensions, texture, logo and test results should all be included in your post."
If you want your pill info request to stay open, try to tell us more about the pill so that it could be conclusively identified. Bluelight is not about passing on unconfirmed rumours - if you want specific detailed information that you can trust, then bring something to the table - like a full description of the pill. Check the Perth Pills thread for great examples of how to make a proper Pill Info post.
BigTrancer.
Furthermore, your post being removed from this forum for the above reason does not represent a violation of your right to Free Speech or some kind of lapse in Bluelights harm reduction message. This is a moderated forum, posts that follow the guidelines can stay, the others are removed... simple as that. The guidelines for pill info requests have been made as obvious as possible, singled out from the rest of the forum guidelines and stuck at the top of the forum page as an Announcement, reading "Include ALL the information about the pill. A name and a colour is not sufficient to properly identify a specific pill. All the details are important to identify one batch from another. Details such as the pill colour, bevelled/scored/speckled (if present), height/diameter dimensions, texture, logo and test results should all be included in your post."
If you want your pill info request to stay open, try to tell us more about the pill so that it could be conclusively identified. Bluelight is not about passing on unconfirmed rumours - if you want specific detailed information that you can trust, then bring something to the table - like a full description of the pill. Check the Perth Pills thread for great examples of how to make a proper Pill Info post.
BigTrancer.
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fcuking_in_heaven
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 163
What is the point in clsoing his thread though. Surely leave it open for anyone who has any information about pills matching his desciption. Maybe the guidelines are set too harshly. I mean it sucks how this guy has asked for some info and basically been told to get fucked unless he measures it. What fucking difference will it make with an obsurely known pill such as the 'SIN'. Surely any information is better than none.
"Bluelight is not about passing on unconfirmed rumours". Sorry BT but everyone here has an opinion (because we arent all little sheep following the leader) and for most that opinion equates to rimour spreading and gossip.
Unfortunatley their seems to be a divide between the type of people visiting bluelight. Myself, a keen to learn youinger person who knows the basics about MDMA and then there's the really new people who have street knowledge of MDMA (mostly wrong, ie: think herion in pills, etc) and then there's the 1000+ post mod's and others who seem to know everything and have an answer for most.
To this last category of people: I know it must be hard for you having to repeat the same shit that you guys obviously know off by heart now. the fact that you constantly direct other BL's to years and years of built up information is proof enough of this. Here i present a challenge to you. You are a BL's greatest resource with all your wealth of knowledge, so try to not burn people. If someone asks a questions try to be accommodating and answer it positively. Most people are sick of getting the same reply from the usuals, "Fuck off we cant be fucked with you beacuse you dont know what your talking about".
Just try and be helpful or dont bother posting anything at all.
"Bluelight is not about passing on unconfirmed rumours". Sorry BT but everyone here has an opinion (because we arent all little sheep following the leader) and for most that opinion equates to rimour spreading and gossip.
Unfortunatley their seems to be a divide between the type of people visiting bluelight. Myself, a keen to learn youinger person who knows the basics about MDMA and then there's the really new people who have street knowledge of MDMA (mostly wrong, ie: think herion in pills, etc) and then there's the 1000+ post mod's and others who seem to know everything and have an answer for most.
To this last category of people: I know it must be hard for you having to repeat the same shit that you guys obviously know off by heart now. the fact that you constantly direct other BL's to years and years of built up information is proof enough of this. Here i present a challenge to you. You are a BL's greatest resource with all your wealth of knowledge, so try to not burn people. If someone asks a questions try to be accommodating and answer it positively. Most people are sick of getting the same reply from the usuals, "Fuck off we cant be fucked with you beacuse you dont know what your talking about".
Just try and be helpful or dont bother posting anything at all.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,343
It's clearly written in our forum guidelines that people can email a moderator to query missing threads, and a thread can always be reopened. Every time I close a thread of this kind, I put a note in it to say basically "PM me with more details to save your thread". The point in closing the thread is simple - when the first post in the thread contains exact details of the pill being discussed, there is no possibility for misidentification. In my opinion this is of paramount importance. There is no limit to the number of threads we can make here - closing one thread doesn't prevent another from opening. Just accept the thread is closed because it wasn't good enough in its current form, and either open a new one with the required information or PM me and I'll do the whole thing for you - I can't make it any easier than that.
I really don't see someone would take it personally, it's just a locked thread (and temporarily locked pending further details, in every single case), it is not some kind of personal inference that you aren't good enough to talk to.
BigTrancer.
I really don't see someone would take it personally, it's just a locked thread (and temporarily locked pending further details, in every single case), it is not some kind of personal inference that you aren't good enough to talk to.
10. DON'T get offended if your post gets deleted or edited. The moderators are just doing their jobs (99% of the time
BigTrancer.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
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- 7,343
PS: Original thread merged, for continuity.
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Thankyou for your explanation and dialog, it's a much more productive and civil way to deal with a problem than just brushing it under the rug.
From your privmsg (nothing personal in it so ok to post) ...
Like I said I've already read the various incarnations of those guidelines over the years, but it is an absolutely ridiculous requirement that you must first virtually know everything about a pill before being able to request information. Clearly I'm requesting information because I _don't_ know everything about the pill. If I DO have more information then yes I do provide all that and more - here's an example post, with scan photo, weight, and Marquis test results included. Unfortunately in this case I don't have such information, which is why Im the one doing the requesting rather than the sharing this time.
Guidelines are just that - they are not laws, and your role here is that of a moderator - not a censor. Clearly I am not a troll or anybody causing problems or using abusive language (or anything else worthy of censorship), I am simply asking for information as many have done before me. Moderating is not your fulltime job so stop taking it so seriously and lets try and maintain the relatively friendly and useful nature of this place where information can flow freely, and without treating posters who simply request information like schoolboys who've broken the law.
Conclusion: As much as I hate to say it this forum IS unfortunately _useless_ for pill requests unless you know virtually everything about the pill beforehand. That has now been proven. Dont get me wrong, this forum is a good resource for most other things, just not pill requests unless virtually everything is already known anyway (which basically defeats the purpose of requesting more info). Some (hopefully not all) moderators have shown that they consider specific details on a pill to be more important than any information about a pill - clearly they would rather my friend blindly gamble on whether he consumes this pill, rather than being allowed any potential information about it.
Given the stance of the moderator involved I've removed for now my test results of Marquis Simons and Robadope vs. 2C-T-2, 2C-T-21, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-P, IAP, BDB, DPT Hcl, 5-MEO-DALT, 4-HO-MIPT, 4-ACO-DIPT, 5-MEO-DMT, Harmine Hcl, Harmaline Hcl, and several non-active substances. It was the first time many of those substances have been tested and results published, so clearly that is even more "potentially harmful" than replies to a simple pill request.
But one last note - at the end of the day, all posts made at this forum can be potentially harmful or misleading - just because somebody posts the height and width of a pill doesnt make the information any more safe, so censoring such information (even before its posted) is counter-productive and clearly not in anybodys interests. It is obviously impossible for even the best moderators to prevent potentially dangerous information from being posted, so all of us must make our own decisions about whether or not information may be misleading or potentially dangerous.
Peace.
PS. "The Mondays", no ... the moderator had a touch of "The Mondays" on Saturday which sent this whole thread downhill in the first place ...
Just read my first post in this thread, and think how much better this thread wouldve been if moderators hadnt said anything - there wouldve been no problems at all and moderators wouldnt have made themselves seem like government law enforcers. This thread was pointlessly over-moderated to the point of censorship, it's that simple. I just asked a simple request for information on one pill, that's all. You chose to drag this out and turn it into an episode, not me, Im just after information.
From your privmsg (nothing personal in it so ok to post) ...
Sorry but the reality is that in many cases unless you have physical access to the pill then all you will probably know is 1) name, 2) logo, 3) location, 4) color. Although that isn't enough info to make a post to New Scientist it is certainly more than enough info to request further information in case anybody knows anything. This forum is just a GUIDE anyway where everyone has to make their own educated decisions about the information they find, as to whether said info is valid, invalid, useful, useless, harmful, harmless, or otherwise. I'm not after a scientific analysis of the pill, just information - any information.
Like I said I've already read the various incarnations of those guidelines over the years, but it is an absolutely ridiculous requirement that you must first virtually know everything about a pill before being able to request information. Clearly I'm requesting information because I _don't_ know everything about the pill. If I DO have more information then yes I do provide all that and more - here's an example post, with scan photo, weight, and Marquis test results included. Unfortunately in this case I don't have such information, which is why Im the one doing the requesting rather than the sharing this time.
Guidelines are just that - they are not laws, and your role here is that of a moderator - not a censor. Clearly I am not a troll or anybody causing problems or using abusive language (or anything else worthy of censorship), I am simply asking for information as many have done before me. Moderating is not your fulltime job so stop taking it so seriously and lets try and maintain the relatively friendly and useful nature of this place where information can flow freely, and without treating posters who simply request information like schoolboys who've broken the law.
Conclusion: As much as I hate to say it this forum IS unfortunately _useless_ for pill requests unless you know virtually everything about the pill beforehand. That has now been proven. Dont get me wrong, this forum is a good resource for most other things, just not pill requests unless virtually everything is already known anyway (which basically defeats the purpose of requesting more info). Some (hopefully not all) moderators have shown that they consider specific details on a pill to be more important than any information about a pill - clearly they would rather my friend blindly gamble on whether he consumes this pill, rather than being allowed any potential information about it.
Given the stance of the moderator involved I've removed for now my test results of Marquis Simons and Robadope vs. 2C-T-2, 2C-T-21, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-P, IAP, BDB, DPT Hcl, 5-MEO-DALT, 4-HO-MIPT, 4-ACO-DIPT, 5-MEO-DMT, Harmine Hcl, Harmaline Hcl, and several non-active substances. It was the first time many of those substances have been tested and results published, so clearly that is even more "potentially harmful" than replies to a simple pill request.
But one last note - at the end of the day, all posts made at this forum can be potentially harmful or misleading - just because somebody posts the height and width of a pill doesnt make the information any more safe, so censoring such information (even before its posted) is counter-productive and clearly not in anybodys interests. It is obviously impossible for even the best moderators to prevent potentially dangerous information from being posted, so all of us must make our own decisions about whether or not information may be misleading or potentially dangerous.
Peace.
PS. "The Mondays", no ... the moderator had a touch of "The Mondays" on Saturday which sent this whole thread downhill in the first place ...
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aunty establishment
Bluelight Crew
Looks like *someone's* got a case of the Mondays!
/Office Space
/Office Space
ld50 vs ssri
Bluelighter
The guidelines are not hard to follow 8). Copycat batches are more common then you may think, thats why extra physical details about the pill are much more helpful in determining the difference between the offending batch. As much as most people hate hearing this, Bluelights main focus is harm reduction/minimistation. It is for this very reason that the details you have supplied are not quite enough imo. Eg: You buy a batch or reasonable quality pills, in your case "White SIN's". A few weeks later an adultrated batch comes on the market and it happens to be White, SIN logo, Located in Perth. Now tell me how do you tell the differ, from the details you provided ? Stop whinging and try again next time
Good luck
Good luck
Following the guidelines (note: they seem to be "rules" not "guidelines") is not the problem. The problem is that they don't allow for information requests unless virtually everything is already known about them. They dont even consider that maybe the next poster will be able to post a reply with more information, maybe even including height, width, weight, reagent testing, and so on, so even if the initial request is "incomplete" then those missing bits may be filled in by other posters.
However, even when full information IS provided (width/height etc), nobody - not you, not I, not any moderators, can validate whether information/reports are accurate, inaccurate, misleading, false, or otherwise. I could just fake a width/height, and then my pill request would be ok - despite me giving misleading details.
Example: I recently posted a pill report (not a request) about Egyptian Eyes and provided all information including weight, score, speckles, Marquis/Simons/Robadope tests, etc etc etc, but still you and everyone else has NO way of knowing whether any of my information is correct or not.
But THAT is the reason Im asking for information in the first place - I dont want my friend taking anything if somebody here knows anything untowards about it, which is why I just asked. Information censorship does nothing to reduce harm.
Everyone must make their own decisions about the validity of every single post made here, so it's pointless, counter-productive, and against the friendly and information-sharing nature of Bluelights for AusDD moderators to censor pill info requests simply because width and height wasnt included.
These are very easy problems to fix, and the result will be a friendlier forum with much more information being shared due to less information being suppressed/censored.
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