Physical Addiction-Amphetamine

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

Now I thought/think I'm right in saying that amphetamines are not physically addictive, but SOME PEOPLE in BL ED IRC is saying they is
Amphetamines are only psychologically addictive, correct?

 

[Sweet P]

Depends what you mean by physically addictive. The withdrawals don't make you sick and flu-like as opiates do, but they do make you extremely fatigued (which I consider just as much a physical condition as a mental one). Heavy methamphetamine addiction can also cause physical changes to the brain.

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

yeah P, i know ampz/meth change ya brain, but i wiki'd and the DSM agrees with me, that amphetamines/meth and cocaine arent physically addictive. They produce withdrawal but arent physically addictive or whatever. I know that the reason you feel shitty (not you specifically, me too sometimes) when youre coming down/havent had amphets (meth in your case) is cause your brain has less dopamine and whatnot and your receptors downregulate
i TOLD those fuckers. saying "youre physically addicted to amphetamines", i was saying i wasnt PHYSICALLY addicted, and now i finally found a source they cant dispute the creditability of
the DSM or whatever says the withdrawal symptoms associated with cocaine are all psychological, here, ill copypasta what i mean, if it applies to cocaine it would also apply to amp/meth

The DSM definition of addiction can be boiled down to compulsive use of a substance (or engagement in an activity) despite ongoing negative consequences—this is also a summary of what used to be called "psychological dependency." Physical dependence, on the other hand, is simply needing a substance to function. Humans are all physically dependent on oxygen, food and water. A drug can cause physical dependence and not addiction (for example, some blood pressure medications, which can produce fatal withdrawal symptoms if not tapered) and can cause addiction without physical dependence (the withdrawal symptoms associated with cocaine are all psychological, there is no associated vomiting or diarrhea as there is with opiate withdrawal).

 

[MeDieViL]

Amphetamine's withdrawal doesnt come with glutamate hyperactivity as seen with substances that are physically addicting, but rater is a direct result of receptor downregulation.

 

[minging]

The DSM definition of addiction can be boiled down to compulsive use of a substance (or engagement in an activity) despite ongoing negative consequences—this is also a summary of what used to be called "psychological dependency." Physical dependence, on the other hand, is simply needing a substance to function. Humans are all physically dependent on oxygen, food and water. A drug can cause physical dependence and not addiction (for example, some blood pressure medications, which can produce fatal withdrawal symptoms if not tapered) and can cause addiction without physical dependence (the withdrawal symptoms associated with cocaine are all psychological, there is no associated vomiting or diarrhea as there is with opiate withdrawal).

Seems like a pretty fine (and arbitrary) line to draw. If repeated use increases tolerance and ceasing use causes withdrawal, what more do you need? SUre your body doesn't NEED it to continue functioning, but how is this different from opiods? Is there a point to this debate or is it just academic?

 

[Sweet P]

The DSM definition of addiction can be boiled down to compulsive use of a substance (or engagement in an activity) despite ongoing negative consequences—this is also a summary of what used to be called "psychological dependency." Physical dependence, on the other hand, is simply needing a substance to function. Humans are all physically dependent on oxygen, food and water. A drug can cause physical dependence and not addiction (for example, some blood pressure medications, which can produce fatal withdrawal symptoms if not tapered) and can cause addiction without physical dependence (the withdrawal symptoms associated with cocaine are all psychological, there is no associated vomiting or diarrhea as there is with opiate withdrawal).

I disagree with this... I'm addicted to methamphetamine and without it I'm fatigued and I can't get out of bed, and thus I do need the drug to function. I imagine the same would go for a cocaine addiction, mentioned in the article, due to the similar effects the two drugs have on dopamine receptors.

Seems like a pretty fine (and arbitrary) line to draw. If repeated use increases tolerance and ceasing use causes withdrawal, what more do you need? SUre your body doesn't NEED it to continue functioning, but how is this different from opiods? Is there a point to this debate or is it just academic?

I agree, it is a very fine line. During meth/amphetamine withdrawals, fatigue feels physical but it is registered by the brain and the perception of fatigue is thus psychological. In opioid withdrawals, sickness feels physical and the perception of this sickness is also psychological. So what's the difference? Withdrawals are withdrawals.

 

[rickolasnice]

I would class amphetamine as physcially addictive.. not in the same was as GABAergics or opiates but they do show signs of physical withdrawal when abruptly stopping (see Sweet P's posts)..

I agree, it is a very fine line. During meth/amphetamine withdrawals, fatigue feels physical but it is registered by the brain and the perception of fatigue is thus psychological. In opioid withdrawals, sickness feels physical and the perception of this sickness is also psychological. So what's the difference? Withdrawals are withdrawals.

win

GABAergics shakes and opiates pains and sickness are all due to a chemical inbalance in the brain.. same as stimulants fatigue and extreme hunger, etc..

 

[ebola?]

I find the line quite arbitrary, as the brain is part of the body. Also, amphetamine withdrawal should give you a runny nose.

 

[23536]

The DSM definition of addiction can be boiled down to compulsive use of a substance (or engagement in an activity) despite ongoing negative consequences—this is also a summary of what used to be called "psychological dependency." Physical dependence, on the other hand, is simply needing a substance to function. Humans are all physically dependent on oxygen, food and water. A drug can cause physical dependence and not addiction (for example, some blood pressure medications, which can produce fatal withdrawal symptoms if not tapered) and can cause addiction without physical dependence (the withdrawal symptoms associated with cocaine are all psychological, there is no associated vomiting or diarrhea as there is with opiate withdrawal).

just a quick note: this is no longer a good source. They've already announced that the DSM-V will have a revised definition of substance dependency. I can dig up the article if necessary.

 

[pofacedhoe]

I find the line quite arbitrary, as the brain is part of the body. Also, amphetamine withdrawal should give you a runny nose.

when i came off speed my legs would not stop itching- it was awful

 

[Hammilton]

just a quick note: this is no longer a good source. They've already announced that the DSM-V will have a revised definition of substance dependency. I can dig up the article if necessary.

That doesn't make it "not a good source." I don't remember hearing that they were changing the definition, but I do remember a lot of talk about adding new addictions, though I thought they were deciding against adding them (shopping, sex, etc). Anyway, the definition can't change much, what we think of addiction and dependency hasn't changed much- only broadening to include non-substance dependencies.

 

[23536]

no, the proposed proposed revisions oppose the OP

http://www.jointogether.org/news/features/2010/dsm-v-draft-includes-major.html

Battle Over 'Addiction' and 'Dependence'

The APA has gone back and forth between use of the terms "addiction" and "dependence" to describe alcohol and other drug problems, noted researcher Stanton Peele, Ph.D. "Every book I've written has the word "addiction" in the title, so I'm glad the term will now be recognized," wrote Peele in the Huffington Post on Feb. 11. "But the change back may make us wonder whether we will have to reconsider every twenty years or so whether it is more beneficial or harmful to use a word loaded with cultural meanings ("addiction"), or a more neutral term ("dependence")."

In fact, "dependence" made it into the DSM-IV by just a single vote, O'Brien noted in a May 2006 editorial in the American Journal of Psychiatry co-authored by Nora Volkow, M.D., director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and T-K Li, M.D., then-head of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

"Experience over the past two decades has demonstrated that this decision was a serious mistake," the trio wrote. "The term 'dependence' has traditionally been used to describe 'physical dependence,' which refers to the adaptations that result in withdrawal symptoms when drugs, such as alcohol and heroin, are discontinued. Physical dependence is also observed with certain psychoactive medications, such as antidepressants and beta-blockers. However, the adaptations associated with drug withdrawal are distinct from the adaptations that result in addiction, which refers to the loss of control over the intense urges to take the drug even at the expense of adverse consequences."

 

[fruitflyi95]

The first 3days are awfull for myself,the nausea, eye balls jumping those flu symptoms body aches .omg it as if the world is spinning. i hate myself every time i have to go through this witch has been a lot lately with all the new stooped restriction with buying the eggs. you learn how to not share anymore and hold on to a cram if you got it.

 

[deckmunki]

Surely dopamine receptor downregulation and neurotoxicity are both putative physical changes, which could be classed as justifying the definition of physical dependency, at least insofar as you'd need the drug to feel "normal"?

(Mine are just the uneducated ramblings of a layperson though, but I'm keen to know the thoughts of folks more experienced than I am ).

//dm