Misc Phenobarbital combinations

[DroneLore]

I know it's very dangerous to mix phenobarbital with other depressants. I take kratom every day. Do you think a smallish (like 4g) dose of kratom would be dangerous in combination with the phenobarb?

Also, if I took 0.5 mg of clonazolam 7 hours before taking the phenobarb, would there still be too much benzo in my system for it to be even remotely safe?

I have about 600mg of phenobarb to play with, any suggestions for how to dose it?

 

[CousinCocaine]

Idk about the kratom but I'd suggest either sticking to low doses when you combine em or don't combine them at all and I also can't really give you an answer about the clonazolam because idk the half life. Sorry

As for combos I'd say mixing some with an upper probably an amphetamine is the way to go. Its not really safe but way safer than alcohol or downers. They used to make barb + speed combination pills.

 

[Speed King]

Don't play with barbituates. You have Clonazepam in your system. It effects the body for a while after taking it. Also, negatory on the Kratom. We don't know your body chemestry or true tolerance to any of the drugs listed. Save the phenobarbital for another day. If you are going to use it, read up on the drug itself and therapeutic dosage range. Mixing a barbituate with a benzodiazepine can kill you. Mixing with Kratom can increase sedation and kill you. This is not a drug to play with.

 

[CousinCocaine]

Don't play with barbituates. You have Clonazepam in your system. It effects the body for a while after taking it. Also, negatory on the Kratom. We don't know your body chemestry or true tolerance to any of the drugs listed. Save the phenobarbital for another day. If you are going to use it, read up on the drug itself and therapeutic dosage range. Mixing a barbituate with a benzodiazepine can kill you. Mixing with Kratom can increase sedation and kill you. This is not a drug to play with.

Was my idea of using a stimulant better? Is mixing barbiturates and amphetamines safe? If not, what makes it unsafe if you don't mind explaining it?
Sorry to ask just want to make sure I'm helping people instead of harming them.

 

[Speed King]

Using a stimulant with in this case a barbituate, negates usage of the barbituate.

Worst case, the person takes a stimulant with the barbituate, feels great on that combination, then the stimulant wears off. Now the person is dealing with all the remaining or even excessive barbituate. We are here simply showing the idea, which may work just fine with (for example purposes only) a benzodiazepine, simply because it may be easier and safer to gauge, it isn't as easy when barbituates are involved.

Barbituates have a narrow therapitic window.


In closing, your idea was not bad per se, but overall, it wasn't as simple as taking a stimulant.

 

[CousinCocaine]

Excuse any errors in this post I'm coming down from a ketamine Dexedrine mix (it was amazing but my mind was fucked in every position imaginable lol)

The thing I was worried about was if it was safe or not (I was almost certain it was or I wouldn't have even mentioned it). I imagine it'd be somewhat like mixing amphetamines and benzos, most of the time one will cancel the effects of the other but if you get the benzodiazepine amphetamine ratio just tight the high is absolutely amazing, intense euphoria, confidence, muscle relaxation,no anxiety and you feel like the world revolves around you.

@Speed King - as a moderator I assume you're very knowledgeable about these types of things. I know it's off topic but, is chloral hydrate a barbiturate? I didn't think it was but while doing some research and an article kept referring to it as one. I think the author just clumped all the extremely old sedatives (most of which would've been barbiturates) into a single category and assumed it was like the others.

I envy you for finding a barbiturate in fuckin 2017, I heard stories about them but never got to try any I think until the the mid to late 80s they were prescribed ALL THE TIME. Secobarbital, Quaaludes (You catch a glimpse of Bill Cosby in the shadows ready to pounce on the first person who takes one) and (I think but I'm not sure) pentobarbital were the top three. THIS IS ONLY HYPOTHETICAL I AM NOT TRYING TO TRADE TRANSFER OR ACCEPT ANY ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES.anyway I honestly think if I had the choice I'd give up 1/2 a months worth of Klonopin (30 leaving me 30 + 30 temazepam) (once not every month) for say 5-10 (depending on How many you need to get high) of any barbiturate. I don't even think they sound very fun (kinda sounds like getting to an uncomfortable level of drunk then taking a Valium (for some reason that actually seems like fun to me). I'm going to make some calls afterwards and try to get just a single fucking barbiturate pill I want to at least try one in my lifetime.

Never had barbiturates in my life (unless chloral hydrate really is, which I doubt), it's frustrating because like acid I've wanted to try them for years. But I won't let that ruin my good mood. Like acid and barbs I had wanted to try ketamine for years but had no idea where to find it so I gave up on looking then out of nowhere I get a prescription for ketamine gel that is super easy to do extractions on that (including refills) has 25 grams worth of pure ketamine hcl!!! So I spent the day (and I guess night too) tripping balls lol

 

[bindingaffinity]

Chloral hydrate is kind of its own thing. It gets metabolized to trichoroethanol, so I guess you could consider it an ethanol analogue.

 

[Speed King]

^^ Thanks bindingaffinity.

CousinCocaine check out the barbiturate page on Wikipedia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbiturate

There are many different ways to mess up with barbituates.

I will point out some important facts.

Barbiturates in overdose with other centeral nervous system depressants (e.g. alcohol, opiates, benzodiazepines) are even more dangerous due to additive CNS and respiratory depressant effects.

In the case of benzodiazepines, not only do they have additive effects, barbiturates also increase the binding affinity of the benzodiazepine binding site, leading to exaggerated benzodiazepine effects.

Example: if a benzodiazepine increases the frequency of channel opening by 300% and the barbiturate increases the duration of the channel opening by 300%, then the combined effects of the drugs increase the channels overall function by 900% not 600%.

That was the issue with the benzodiazepine drugs.


A little information on Phenobarbital:

According to Wikipedia

Its Biological half life is 53-118 hours

Its Duration of Action is 4 hours to 2 days


I highly recommend that you CousinCocaine and anyone interested in H.R bread the entire thing before proceeding.

 

[tacodude]

Just to give you an idea of the dose so you realize how much you have when I was on phenobarbital for opiate detox I used 16 mg 3x maybe 4x at one point over 3-4 days and that was it. Barbiturates are dangerous.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Don't forget that phenobarbital has a half life of up to 120 hours and even the duration of action can be up to 48 hours

 

[tacodude]

Ya they said it was pretty long. They probably were stacking the dose gently. I would not try fucking with it on my own.

 

[CousinCocaine]

@bindingaffinity + @Speed King. Thank you both for responding. Also Speed King I love the avatar, I thought it was hilarious when he went missing and Archer put up the posters looking for him that said "Needs Medicine : Heroin" lol

Even tho I've always wanted to try a barbiturate I couldn't with all the medications I take, unless it was administered in a hospital setting where my breathing/oxygen level could be monitored. Well maybe if I wasn't on bupe Fioricet would be ok at a fairly low dose and preferably with a doctors permission.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Speedking is right on the money really. You're dealing with some potentially dangerous shit by mixing all of these central nervous system depressants. As speedking said, Barbiturates have a pretty narrow therapeutic window. Unlike Benzodiazepines, they can kill without the addition of other depressants. Benzodiazepines, when taken by themselves, are pretty safe and difficult to overdose on.

The issue is that you now have depressants from 3 separate classes of drugs. Even combining 2, say, a Benzodiazepine and an Opioid, will produce a pretty powerful synergy more potent than the sum of its parts. If you factor in a Barbiturate, I can only imagine that the synergy will be extremely powerful and unpredictable.

As others have mentioned, Phenobarbital has a very subtle effect in general and hangs around in your body for a long time. The subtlety of effect and the gradual onset makes it difficult to accurately guage how intoxicated you are. The Phenobarbital will probably still be at work long after you feel that you are completely sober. The fact that Barbiturates numb the senses makes it even harder to determine how inebriated you are.

Please be careful and if you decide to combine these drugs, do not combine all 3 and start with small dosages and work your way up. Once you're in a blackout, you're liable to completely lose control and begin taking all of your drugs. This can lead to a very dangerous situation, so please be careful.

 

[DroneLore]

Just to give you an idea of the dose so you realize how much you have when I was on phenobarbital for opiate detox I used 16 mg 3x maybe 4x at one point over 3-4 days and that was it. Barbiturates are dangerous.

Thank you. I have been struggling to find useful dosing guidelines for phenobarbital.

Were those doses enough for you to feel anything, even if it was just relief from the w/d?

I actually didn't realize barbs could be useful for detox... I may use it to get off kratom, if it works that well.

 

[tacodude]

Usual Adult Dose for Sedation
Daytime Sedation:
30 to 120 mg orally, IM, or IV in 2 or 3 divided doses
Maximum dose: 400 mg during a 24-hour period

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.drugs.com/amp/dosage/phenobarbital.html

That took less than a minute. Follow the link.... Make sure you have 0.001 g scale.

I didn't even really notice the effect, but was also on clonidine and ropinirole, which are both pretty important for detox. Just using phenobarbital probably won't manage it.

 

[tacodude]

I know I'm double posting, but as others said don't combine it with other drugs. I would honestly recommend not using it.

 

[bindingaffinity]

I've heard of clonidine for rapid detox, but what is the ropinirole for?

Also, in case you had any doubt about combining phenobarbital with anything, check this list out. A highlight from one of the entries: "Using narcotic pain or cough medications together with other medications that also cause central nervous system depression can lead to serious side effects including respiratory distress, coma, and even death."

 

[tacodude]

Ropinirole is a dopamine agonist.... Used I'm guessing too replace the flood of dopamine Opiates can cause if I'm not mistaken. I can't say for sure though

 

[callofduty]

I might suggest looking up the Butalbital dosages in Fioricet/Fiorinal and using some kind of barbiturate converter to determine how to mix phenobarbital with kratom. Please don't use a barbiturate with a benzo, though. I'll admit that I did it for a couple of years (Butalbital/codeine + Klonopin), but I had a tolerance to both drugs. And I'm still surprised I'm not dead.

While I don't know a lot about kratom, I doubt it's stronger than codeine (but please check that before you just believe me!). Since Fioricet/Fiorinal does exist, I don't think it's TOO terribly dangerous to cautiously mix kratom and phenobarbital in small doses. I mean, Butalbital and codeine is an amazing mixture. Nothing has ever relieved my pain like that pill did. I sometimes think about getting back on whichever one has aspirin in it, but I don't want to get dependent on a barbiturate. Barbiturate withdrawal can kill you.

TL; DR: Be careful, and wait at least a day--until the Klonopin is out of your system.

 

[Mmp85]

I was given phenobarbital in rehab as a precaution for alcohol withdrawals. Which was bullshit because I wasn't chemically dependent on alcohol and hadn't had a drink in about a week when I checked in but how could they know if I was lying about my alcohol abuse (I mean I definitely abused alcohol but more as a binge drinker, not a daily drinker who might suffer physical withdrawal) and they were covering their own ass by basically dosing everyone with withdrawal meds. I honestly didn't even know barbituates were still prescribe in the US much now that benzos are around, I hear barbituates and think of Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland and Valley of the Dolls. They obviously didn't let me take my klonopin prescription in rehab (I was taking 0.5 once a day) but they were willing to dose me up with a notoriously stronger med! I was still taking mood stabilizers and anti-depressants for bipolar though. I don't know how high the phenobarbital dose was but it was pretty fucking high because I spent the first week passing out everywhere, in my chair in group therapy, during yoga, and especially during nightly AA meetings and most everyone else on it was the same. One woman was so bad that I honestly thought she had brain damage because she could barely speak coherently. As soon as she finished her phenobarb taper I discovered she was a perfectly functional member of society and totally cognizant. When I would call home my family was baffled, my mother told me I sounded drunker than I did before I went to rehab because I slurred so badly. I tell her what they're giving me and she talked to a family friend who's a doctor and specializes in eating disorders in teens and other issues that commonly require inpatient therapy. She flipped her shit when she found out they were mixing it with my mood stabilizers and also offering us strong meds like Seroquel for sleep (I always refused because I'd taken Seroquel in the past and hated it). Apparently mixing it with mood stabilizers or antidepressants and especially both can cause overdose. I finally got the psychiatrist there to make them let me stop taking it but they were extremely unwilling and told me I could be kicked out for refusing meds.

Obviously that's not an example of recreational use although I can see the value of it because I was high as a kite and might have found it pleasant if I wasn't expected to spend all day from 5:30 am to 11:00 PM doing stuff like talk about my feelings and go for nature walks (while talking about my feelings) or making collages (to describe my feelings) or listening to speakers talk about their feelings.

I guess my point here is that it was a scary experience realizing I was mixing dangerous drugs without even knowing and if for some ungodly reason I ever take phenobarb again I probably wouldn't even mix it with children's Tylenol.